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	<title>Comments on: More Sin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232496</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232496</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  What if I consider Catholicism &quot;morally dubious&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmmm.  What if I consider Catholicism &#8220;morally dubious&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Yee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232443</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Yee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232443</guid>
		<description>I would have included spamming in any list of &quot;social sins&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would have included spamming in any list of &#8220;social sins&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232175</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232175</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty&lt;/i&gt;

So Britain´s most powerful &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4772142.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;God botherer&lt;/a&gt; is going to spending quite a few millenia in the snake pit. It almost makes you want to believe in all that crap...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor<br />
6. Excessive wealth<br />
7. Creating poverty</i></p>

	<p>So Britain&#180;s most powerful <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4772142.stm" rel="nofollow">God botherer</a> is going to spending quite a few millenia in the snake pit. It almost makes you want to believe in all that crap&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232144</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232144</guid>
		<description>Jay B. scripsit:

&quot;Despite testing for sin or sin-like qualities for the better part of 2000 years, the church&#039;s Sin Labs has yielded little in the way of usable sin vaccines.&quot;

I&#039;m imagining some kind of scientific journal whose archives are being maintained in the hallowed halls of the Vatican Palace. Alas, it&#039;s probably going to be written in lingua latina, which&#039;ll be a shame because the stuff&#039;s highly likely to be better than the crud we get from &lt;em&gt;Answers Research Journal&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jay B. scripsit:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Despite testing for sin or sin-like qualities for the better part of 2000 years, the church&#8217;s Sin Labs has yielded little in the way of usable sin vaccines.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m imagining some kind of scientific journal whose archives are being maintained in the hallowed halls of the Vatican Palace. Alas, it&#8217;s probably going to be written in lingua latina, which&#8217;ll be a shame because the stuff&#8217;s highly likely to be better than the crud we get from <em>Answers Research Journal</em>.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Modesto Kid</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232143</link>
		<dc:creator>The Modesto Kid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232143</guid>
		<description>How can something be asserted to be sinful and simultaneously be called &quot;morally dubious&quot;? If something is sinful its morality cannot by definition be in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How can something be asserted to be sinful and simultaneously be called &#8220;morally dubious&#8221;? If something is sinful its morality cannot by definition be in question.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brass Tacks: 14 sins I hear you say? &#171; Peccator Rusticissimus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232142</link>
		<dc:creator>Brass Tacks: 14 sins I hear you say? &#171; Peccator Rusticissimus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232142</guid>
		<description>[...] It is best to begin with the latter. The primogeniture of the confusion is an AP wire article which was lazily paraphrased or even repeated verbatim, with proper credit being given, I concede, across several &#8216;respected&#8217; news agencies. The sin (hoho!) of course, is more concisely summarised by the commenter over here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] It is best to begin with the latter. The primogeniture of the confusion is an AP wire article which was lazily paraphrased or even repeated verbatim, with proper credit being given, I concede, across several &#8216;respected&#8217; news agencies. The sin (hoho!) of course, is more concisely summarised by the commenter over here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232125</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232125</guid>
		<description>re 7: who knew they read Crooked Timber, and would come up with a riposte to the whole abstract &#039;respect&#039; debate so deftly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>re 7: who knew they read Crooked Timber, and would come up with a riposte to the whole abstract &#8216;respect&#8217; debate so deftly?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: qb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232108</link>
		<dc:creator>qb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232108</guid>
		<description>oh snap.  on the other hand it&#039;s not clear how far people can be held responsible for stupidity.  &quot;bigotry&quot; on the other hand might warrant inclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oh snap.  on the other hand it&#8217;s not clear how far people can be held responsible for stupidity.  &#8220;bigotry&#8221; on the other hand might warrant inclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232100</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232100</guid>
		<description>Good thing they didn&#039;t put &quot;stupidity&quot; on the list, or they&#039;d all be going to hell for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Good thing they didn&#8217;t put &#8220;stupidity&#8221; on the list, or they&#8217;d all be going to hell for sure.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: HH</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232098</link>
		<dc:creator>HH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232098</guid>
		<description>It is absolutely baffling to me that a religion encrusted with dogma and burdened with a bloody history of persecution of thinkers has attracted the loyalty of outstanding individuals like Teilhard de Chardin, T.S. Eliot, and even Ernst Junger. The only explanation I can think of is some kind of bicameral structure of the mind, half temple of reason and half house of dogma.

In an era of equal rights for women, unprecedented discoveries about the structure of life, and astonishing advances in global communications, the efforts of a male-dominated, quasi-celibate Catholic hierarchy to legislate reality for hundreds of millions of people strike me as ludicrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is absolutely baffling to me that a religion encrusted with dogma and burdened with a bloody history of persecution of thinkers has attracted the loyalty of outstanding individuals like Teilhard de Chardin, T.S. Eliot, and even Ernst Junger. The only explanation I can think of is some kind of bicameral structure of the mind, half temple of reason and half house of dogma.</p>

	<p>In an era of equal rights for women, unprecedented discoveries about the structure of life, and astonishing advances in global communications, the efforts of a male-dominated, quasi-celibate Catholic hierarchy to legislate reality for hundreds of millions of people strike me as ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: qb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232095</link>
		<dc:creator>qb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232095</guid>
		<description>#25 - Catechism&#039;s always the first place to look on questions of Catholic doctrine.  it says, 

&lt;i&gt;the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: &quot;For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (1853, citing Mt. 15: 19-20).

also,

&lt;i&gt;Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them&lt;/i&gt; (1868)

this and other passages have a distinctly individualist feel to them.  however, note the acknowledgment of cooperative effects--and this is especially germane to the present post and thread:

&lt;i&gt;Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. &quot;Structures of sin&quot; are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a &quot;social sin.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

prima facie, looks like final moral responsibility always winds up on individuals and not on the &quot;structures&quot; they inhabit.  just a slightly educated guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#25 &#8211; Catechism&#8217;s always the first place to look on questions of Catholic doctrine.  it says,</p>

	<p><i>the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: &#8220;For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man&#8221;</i> (1853, citing Mt. 15: 19-20).</p>

	<p>also,</p>

	<p><i>Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them</i> (1868)</p>

	<p>this and other passages have a distinctly individualist feel to them.  however, note the acknowledgment of cooperative effects&#8212;and this is especially germane to the present post and thread:</p>

	<p><i>Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. &#8220;Structures of sin&#8221; are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a &#8220;social sin.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>prima facie, looks like final moral responsibility always winds up on individuals and not on the &#8220;structures&#8221; they inhabit.  just a slightly educated guess.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: stet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232093</link>
		<dc:creator>stet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232093</guid>
		<description>A question: does anybody know if sin applies to corporate personhood?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A question: does anybody know if sin applies to corporate personhood?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ajay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232088</link>
		<dc:creator>ajay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232088</guid>
		<description>Brandon, we&#039;re all very sorry we got confused between all those old, rich men in funny hats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Brandon, we&#8217;re all very sorry we got confused between all those old, rich men in funny hats.</p>
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		<title>By: Great Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232087</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232087</guid>
		<description>And now the question: would like your job description to be &quot;Deputy Secretary&quot; or &quot;Cardinal Chief Apostolic Penitentiary&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And now the question: would like your job description to be &#8220;Deputy Secretary&#8221; or &#8220;Cardinal Chief Apostolic Penitentiary&#8221;?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sam C</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/comment-page-1/#comment-232085</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/11/more-sin/#comment-232085</guid>
		<description>Brandon: thanks, that&#039;s really helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Brandon: thanks, that&#8217;s really helpful.</p>
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