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	<title>Comments on: The early days of a better nation</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Caer Corvus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Personal is Political</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233833</link>
		<dc:creator>Caer Corvus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Personal is Political</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233833</guid>
		<description>[...] much more eloquent and moving commentaries on the speech so here are a few I really liked: From Crooked Timber &#8220;Obama seemed to me to be challenging America to be great, which is a very different and much [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] much more eloquent and moving commentaries on the speech so here are a few I really liked: From Crooked Timber &#8220;Obama seemed to me to be challenging America to be great, which is a very different and much [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233776</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Looks like you&#039;re right on the speech Dan, but the &quot;New Labour&quot; transformation - which was the battle finally won in the Clause 4 showdown, wasn&#039;t insignificant at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Looks like you&#8217;re right on the speech Dan, but the &#8220;New Labour&#8221; transformation &#8211; which was the battle finally won in the Clause 4 showdown, wasn&#8217;t insignificant at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Gus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233484</link>
		<dc:creator>Gus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233484</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t do anything you might regret, Henry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t do anything you might regret, Henry.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233421</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233421</guid>
		<description>Bad Jim asks: And why, exactly, did the U.S. and the U.K invade Iraq, anyway?

Perhaps the answer can be found here:

Why Did the U.S. Invade Iraq?

Analysis by Jim Lobe 

WASHINGTON, 18 Mar (IPS) - So why, exactly, did the U.S. invade Iraq five years ago this week? 

The official reasons -- the threat posed to the U.S. and its allies by Saddam Hussein&#039;s alleged programmes of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and the possibility that he would pass along those arms to al Qaeda -- have long since been discarded by the overwhelming weight of the evidence, or, more precisely, the lack of evidence that such a threat ever existed. 

Liberating Iraq from the tyranny of Hussein&#039;s particularly unforgiving and bloodthirsty version of Ba&#039;athism and thus setting an irresistible precedent that would spread throughout the Arab world -- a theme pushed by the administration of President George W. Bush mostly after the invasion, as it became clear that the officials reasons could not be justified -- appears to have been the guiding obsession of really only one member of the Bush team, and not a particularly influential one at that: Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.

Then there&#039;s the theory that Bush -- whose enigmatic psychology, particularly his relationship to his father, has already provided grist for several book-publishing mills -- wanted to show up his dad for failing to take Baghdad in 1991. Or he sought to &#039;finish the job&#039; that his dad had begun in 1991; and/or avenge his dad for Hussein&#039;s alleged (but highly questionable) assassination attempt against Bush I in Kuwait after the war. 

Because Bush was the ultimate &#039;Decider&#039;, as he himself has put it, and because no one who ever served at top levels in the administration has ever been able to say precisely when (let alone why) the decision was made to invade Iraq, this explanation cannot be entirely dismissed as an answer.

Then there is the question of oil. Was the administration acting on behalf of an oil industry desperate to get its hands on Mesopotamian oil that had long been denied it as a result of U.N. and unilateral sanctions prohibiting business between U.S. companies and Hussein? 

Given both Bush&#039;s and Vice President Dick Cheney&#039;s long-standing ties to the industry and former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan&#039;s assertion in his recent memoir that &#039;The Iraq war is largely about oil,&#039; this theory has definite appeal -- particularly to those on the left who made &#039;No Blood for Oil&#039; a favourite mantra at anti-war protests in the run-up to the invasion, just as they did -- with much greater plausibility -- before the 1991 Gulf War. 

The problem, however, is that there is little or no evidence that Big Oil, an extremely cautious beast in the global corporate menagerie, favoured a war, particularly one carried out in a way (unilaterally) that risked destabilising the world&#039;s most oil-rich region, especially Saudi Arabia and the emirates. 

On the contrary, the Rice University Institute that bears the name of former Secretary of State James Baker -- a man who has both represented and embodied Big Oil throughout his long legal career -- publicly warned early on that if Bush absolutely, positively had to invade Iraq for whatever reason, he should not even consider it unless two conditions were met: 1) that the action was authorised by the U.N. Security Council; and 2) that nothing whatever be done after the invasion to suggest that the motivation had to do with the acquisition by U.S. oil companies of Iraq&#039;s oil resources.

That is not to say that oil was irrelevant to the administration&#039;s calculations, but perhaps in a different sense than that meant by the &#039;No Blood for Oil&#039; slogan. After all, oil is an absolutely indispensable requirement for running modern economies and militaries. And the invasion was a forceful -- indeed, a shock- and awe-some -- demonstration to the rest of the world, especially potential strategic rivals like China, Russia, or even the European Union, of Washington&#039;s ability to quickly and effectively conquer and control an oil-rich nation in the heart of the energy-rich Middle East/Gulf region any time it wishes, perhaps persuading those lesser powers that challenging the U.S. could well prove counter-productive to long-term interests, if not their supply of energy in the short term. 

Indeed, a demonstration of such power could well be the fastest way to formalise a new international order based on the overwhelming military power of the United States, unequalled at least since the Roman Empire. It would be a &#039;unipolar world&#039; of the kind envisaged by the 1992 draft Defence Planning Guidance (DPG) commissioned by then-Pentagon chief Dick Cheney, overseen by Wolfowitz and Cheney&#039;s future chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, and contributed to by future ambassador to &#039;liberated&#039; Afghanistan and Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad and Bush&#039;s deputy national security adviser, J.D. Crouch.

It was that same vision that formed the inspiration for the 27 charter signatories -- a coalition of aggressive nationalists, neo-conservatives, and Christian Right leaders that included Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, Khalilzad, and several other future senior Bush administration national-security officials -- of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) in 1997. It was the same project that began calling for &#039;regime change&#039; in Iraq in 1998 and that, nine days after the 9/11 attack on New York and the Pentagon, publicly warned that any &#039;war on terror&#039; that excluded Hussein&#039;s elimination would necessarily be incomplete.

In retrospect, it seems clear that Iraq had long been seen by this group, which became empowered first by Bush&#039;s election and then super-charged by 9/11, as the first, easiest and most available step toward achieving a &#039;Pax Americana&#039; that would not only establish the U.S. once and for all as the dominant power in the region, but whose geo-strategic implications for aspiring &#039;peer competitors&#039; would be global in scope.

For the neo-conservative and the Christian Right members of this group, who were its most eager and ubiquitous war boosters, Israel would also be a major beneficiary of an invasion. 

According to a 1996 paper drafted by prominent hard-line neo-conservatives -- including some, like Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, who would later serve in senior posts in Cheney&#039;s office and the Pentagon in the run-up to the invasion -- ousting Hussein and installing a pro-Western leader was the key to destabilising Israel&#039;s Arab enemies and/or bending them to its will. This would permit the Jewish state not only to escape the Oslo peace process, but also to secure as much of the occupied Palestinian (and Syrian) territories as it wished.

Indeed, getting rid of Hussein and occupying Iraq would not only tighten Israel&#039;s hold on Arab territories, in this view; it could also threaten the survival of the Arab and Islamic worlds&#039; most formidable weapon against Israel -- OPEC -- by flooding the world market with Iraqi oil and forcing the commodity&#039;s price down to historic lows.

That&#039;s how it looked five years ago anyway.

http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=1368</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bad Jim asks: And why, exactly, did the U.S. and the U.K invade Iraq, anyway?</p>

	<p>Perhaps the answer can be found here:</p>

	<p>Why Did the U.S. Invade Iraq?</p>

	<p>Analysis by Jim Lobe</p>

	<p><span class="caps">WASHINGTON</span>, 18 Mar (IPS) &#8211; So why, exactly, did the U.S. invade Iraq five years ago this week?</p>

	<p>The official reasons&#8212;the threat posed to the U.S. and its allies by Saddam Hussein&#8217;s alleged programmes of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and the possibility that he would pass along those arms to al Qaeda&#8212;have long since been discarded by the overwhelming weight of the evidence, or, more precisely, the lack of evidence that such a threat ever existed.</p>

	<p>Liberating Iraq from the tyranny of Hussein&#8217;s particularly unforgiving and bloodthirsty version of Ba&#8217;athism and thus setting an irresistible precedent that would spread throughout the Arab world&#8212;a theme pushed by the administration of President George W. Bush mostly after the invasion, as it became clear that the officials reasons could not be justified&#8212;appears to have been the guiding obsession of really only one member of the Bush team, and not a particularly influential one at that: Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.</p>

	<p>Then there&#8217;s the theory that Bush&#8212;whose enigmatic psychology, particularly his relationship to his father, has already provided grist for several book-publishing mills&#8212;wanted to show up his dad for failing to take Baghdad in 1991. Or he sought to &#8216;finish the job&#8217; that his dad had begun in 1991; and/or avenge his dad for Hussein&#8217;s alleged (but highly questionable) assassination attempt against Bush I in Kuwait after the war.</p>

	<p>Because Bush was the ultimate &#8216;Decider&#8217;, as he himself has put it, and because no one who ever served at top levels in the administration has ever been able to say precisely when (let alone why) the decision was made to invade Iraq, this explanation cannot be entirely dismissed as an answer.</p>

	<p>Then there is the question of oil. Was the administration acting on behalf of an oil industry desperate to get its hands on Mesopotamian oil that had long been denied it as a result of U.N. and unilateral sanctions prohibiting business between U.S. companies and Hussein?</p>

	<p>Given both Bush&#8217;s and Vice President Dick Cheney&#8217;s long-standing ties to the industry and former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan&#8217;s assertion in his recent memoir that &#8216;The Iraq war is largely about oil,&#8217; this theory has definite appeal&#8212;particularly to those on the left who made &#8216;No Blood for Oil&#8217; a favourite mantra at anti-war protests in the run-up to the invasion, just as they did&#8212;with much greater plausibility&#8212;before the 1991 Gulf War.</p>

	<p>The problem, however, is that there is little or no evidence that Big Oil, an extremely cautious beast in the global corporate menagerie, favoured a war, particularly one carried out in a way (unilaterally) that risked destabilising the world&#8217;s most oil-rich region, especially Saudi Arabia and the emirates.</p>

	<p>On the contrary, the Rice University Institute that bears the name of former Secretary of State James Baker&#8212;a man who has both represented and embodied Big Oil throughout his long legal career&#8212;publicly warned early on that if Bush absolutely, positively had to invade Iraq for whatever reason, he should not even consider it unless two conditions were met: 1) that the action was authorised by the U.N. Security Council; and 2) that nothing whatever be done after the invasion to suggest that the motivation had to do with the acquisition by U.S. oil companies of Iraq&#8217;s oil resources.</p>

	<p>That is not to say that oil was irrelevant to the administration&#8217;s calculations, but perhaps in a different sense than that meant by the &#8216;No Blood for Oil&#8217; slogan. After all, oil is an absolutely indispensable requirement for running modern economies and militaries. And the invasion was a forceful&#8212;indeed, a shock- and awe-some&#8212;demonstration to the rest of the world, especially potential strategic rivals like China, Russia, or even the European Union, of Washington&#8217;s ability to quickly and effectively conquer and control an oil-rich nation in the heart of the energy-rich Middle East/Gulf region any time it wishes, perhaps persuading those lesser powers that challenging the U.S. could well prove counter-productive to long-term interests, if not their supply of energy in the short term.</p>

	<p>Indeed, a demonstration of such power could well be the fastest way to formalise a new international order based on the overwhelming military power of the United States, unequalled at least since the Roman Empire. It would be a &#8216;unipolar world&#8217; of the kind envisaged by the 1992 draft Defence Planning Guidance (DPG) commissioned by then-Pentagon chief Dick Cheney, overseen by Wolfowitz and Cheney&#8217;s future chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, and contributed to by future ambassador to &#8216;liberated&#8217; Afghanistan and Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad and Bush&#8217;s deputy national security adviser, J.D. Crouch.</p>

	<p>It was that same vision that formed the inspiration for the 27 charter signatories&#8212;a coalition of aggressive nationalists, neo-conservatives, and Christian Right leaders that included Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Libby, Khalilzad, and several other future senior Bush administration national-security officials&#8212;of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) in 1997. It was the same project that began calling for &#8216;regime change&#8217; in Iraq in 1998 and that, nine days after the 9/11 attack on New York and the Pentagon, publicly warned that any &#8216;war on terror&#8217; that excluded Hussein&#8217;s elimination would necessarily be incomplete.</p>

	<p>In retrospect, it seems clear that Iraq had long been seen by this group, which became empowered first by Bush&#8217;s election and then super-charged by 9/11, as the first, easiest and most available step toward achieving a &#8216;Pax Americana&#8217; that would not only establish the U.S. once and for all as the dominant power in the region, but whose geo-strategic implications for aspiring &#8216;peer competitors&#8217; would be global in scope.</p>

	<p>For the neo-conservative and the Christian Right members of this group, who were its most eager and ubiquitous war boosters, Israel would also be a major beneficiary of an invasion.</p>

	<p>According to a 1996 paper drafted by prominent hard-line neo-conservatives&#8212;including some, like Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, who would later serve in senior posts in Cheney&#8217;s office and the Pentagon in the run-up to the invasion&#8212;ousting Hussein and installing a pro-Western leader was the key to destabilising Israel&#8217;s Arab enemies and/or bending them to its will. This would permit the Jewish state not only to escape the Oslo peace process, but also to secure as much of the occupied Palestinian (and Syrian) territories as it wished.</p>

	<p>Indeed, getting rid of Hussein and occupying Iraq would not only tighten Israel&#8217;s hold on Arab territories, in this view; it could also threaten the survival of the Arab and Islamic worlds&#8217; most formidable weapon against Israel&#8212;<span class="caps">OPEC </span>&#8212;by flooding the world market with Iraqi oil and forcing the commodity&#8217;s price down to historic lows.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s how it looked five years ago anyway.</p>

	<p><a href="http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=1368" rel="nofollow">http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=1368</a></p>
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		<title>By: Angela Motorman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233417</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela Motorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 04:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233417</guid>
		<description>Thanks to all for one of the smartest discussions of this speech I&#039;ve seen anywhere. And OMG I can&#039;t believe I just read a thread where BOTH of my obscure heroes -- Theodore Sturgeon and Oysterband -- were cited. I&#039;m used to blank stares when I mention either one. Obviously, I need to hang out here more often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks to all for one of the smartest discussions of this speech I&#8217;ve seen anywhere. And <span class="caps">OMG I</span> can&#8217;t believe I just read a thread where <span class="caps">BOTH</span> of my obscure heroes&#8212;Theodore Sturgeon and Oysterband&#8212;were cited. I&#8217;m used to blank stares when I mention either one. Obviously, I need to hang out here more often.</p>
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		<title>By: Planeshift</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233410</link>
		<dc:creator>Planeshift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233410</guid>
		<description>Supporting Obama, or Blair in 97, seems to me to be like dating a beautiful women who has a psychological flaw. You know it’s going to end in tears with you being hurt, making a fool of yourself and leaving you depressed, but you go ahead and sleep with her anyway, enjoying it while it lasts. And the longer you’ve been without a women before she comes along the more emotional investment you throw at it and the more you blindly follow your hormones.
The Bush years have left us all without hope for so long that most of us are now so desperate for just a bit of hope that we flock to the first politician flashing their eyelashes at us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Supporting Obama, or Blair in 97, seems to me to be like dating a beautiful women who has a psychological flaw. You know it&#8217;s going to end in tears with you being hurt, making a fool of yourself and leaving you depressed, but you go ahead and sleep with her anyway, enjoying it while it lasts. And the longer you&#8217;ve been without a women before she comes along the more emotional investment you throw at it and the more you blindly follow your hormones.<br />
The Bush years have left us all without hope for so long that most of us are now so desperate for just a bit of hope that we flock to the first politician flashing their eyelashes at us.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233354</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233354</guid>
		<description>Engels for President!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Engels for President!</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233303</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233303</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You hear a lot of guff in politicians’ speeches about how great America is; Obama seemed to me to be challenging America to be great, which is a very different and much riskier thing, as well as something I find much more compelling and attractive.&lt;/i&gt;

Count me as one of those who would be happier if America didn&#039;t even challenge itself to be great, but just, let&#039;s say, good enough, or adequate (that is to say, not positively destructive, malevolent or disastrous, as, in point of fact, it has been for many of the people of the world, including a lot of Americans, for much of the last 8 years). 
That is roughly speaking what most of the developed world has been aiming at for the last half century and although I can&#039;t say it has exactly been wonderful so far it has mostly been a lot better than the recurring catastrophic shitstorms that have been unleashed on the world by dewy eyed American liberals of one stripe or another (and their counterparts in other countries) in the name of national greatness or even aspiring to greatness.

America isn&#039;t great, never was and never will be (and nor is any other country). Please just get over it, for everyone&#039;s sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>You hear a lot of guff in politicians&#8217; speeches about how great America is; Obama seemed to me to be challenging America to be great, which is a very different and much riskier thing, as well as something I find much more compelling and attractive.</i></p>

	<p>Count me as one of those who would be happier if America didn&#8217;t even challenge itself to be great, but just, let&#8217;s say, good enough, or adequate (that is to say, not positively destructive, malevolent or disastrous, as, in point of fact, it has been for many of the people of the world, including a lot of Americans, for much of the last 8 years).<br />
That is roughly speaking what most of the developed world has been aiming at for the last half century and although I can&#8217;t say it has exactly been wonderful so far it has mostly been a lot better than the recurring catastrophic shitstorms that have been unleashed on the world by dewy eyed American liberals of one stripe or another (and their counterparts in other countries) in the name of national greatness or even aspiring to greatness.</p>

	<p>America isn&#8217;t great, never was and never will be (and nor is any other country). Please just get over it, for everyone&#8217;s sake.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233296</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233296</guid>
		<description>Dsquared says &#039;Absolutely disagree. Blair took a genuine risk on this one (Clause Four), as evidence for which I advance the fact that ten years later he still felt enough of a debt of honour to John Prescott for the famously logorrheaic conference speech to not sack him despite manifest incompetence.&#039;

Sorry, but you are entirely wrong on the facts. The famously logorrheaic conference speech that John Prescott made in defence of a Labour leader about to lose a vote on a major motion was when he came to John Smith&#039;s aid on One Member One Vote, in 1993. Margaret Beckett, then Smith&#039;s Deputy Leader, actually refused to support him and there was a real chance that he would lose the vote and his job.

 Prescott supported Blair on Clause Four but there was no big conference showdown, no fighting speeches. Plenty of evidence, but try reading &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/1994/oct/05/labour.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this contemporaneous Guardian piece&lt;/a&gt;, by Michael White: &#039;Tony Blair seemed likely last night to pull off the most sensational political coup for a generation as the Labour conference embraced his unexpected call for an overhaul of the party&#039;s time-honoured aims and objectives - including the controversial Clause Four commitment to nationalisation. 
If the initial response of most MPs, trade union leaders and delegates is confirmed - and opposition to the move confined to the hard left - a draft which would revise Labour&#039;s 1918 constitution could be ready by December and put to next year&#039;s party conference after widespread consultation...
&#039;A measure of the conference&#039;s acceptance of Mr Blair&#039;s calculation came last night when the traditional Tribune Rally passed off with scarcely a mention of Clause Four and no rhetoric of betrayal.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dsquared says &#8216;Absolutely disagree. Blair took a genuine risk on this one (Clause Four), as evidence for which I advance the fact that ten years later he still felt enough of a debt of honour to John Prescott for the famously logorrheaic conference speech to not sack him despite manifest incompetence.&#8217;</p>

	<p>Sorry, but you are entirely wrong on the facts. The famously logorrheaic conference speech that John Prescott made in defence of a Labour leader about to lose a vote on a major motion was when he came to John Smith&#8217;s aid on One Member One Vote, in 1993. Margaret Beckett, then Smith&#8217;s Deputy Leader, actually refused to support him and there was a real chance that he would lose the vote and his job.</p>

	<p>Prescott supported Blair on Clause Four but there was no big conference showdown, no fighting speeches. Plenty of evidence, but try reading <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/1994/oct/05/labour.uk/" rel="nofollow">this contemporaneous Guardian piece</a>, by Michael White: &#8216;Tony Blair seemed likely last night to pull off the most sensational political coup for a generation as the Labour conference embraced his unexpected call for an overhaul of the party&#8217;s time-honoured aims and objectives &#8211; including the controversial Clause Four commitment to nationalisation.<br />
If the initial response of most MPs, trade union leaders and delegates is confirmed &#8211; and opposition to the move confined to the hard left &#8211; a draft which would revise Labour&#8217;s 1918 constitution could be ready by December and put to next year&#8217;s party conference after widespread consultation&#8230;<br />
&#8216;A measure of the conference&#8217;s acceptance of Mr Blair&#8217;s calculation came last night when the traditional Tribune Rally passed off with scarcely a mention of Clause Four and no rhetoric of betrayal.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Fruits and Votes &#187; Prof. Shugart's Blog &#187; Being part of the project</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233286</link>
		<dc:creator>Fruits and Votes &#187; Prof. Shugart's Blog &#187; Being part of the project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233286</guid>
		<description>[...]  Compelling stuff from Henry, at Crooked Timber:  Before the speech, if you’d asked me which candidate I’d support if I could vote, I’d have said Obama. After the speech, it’s quite different. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...]  Compelling stuff from Henry, at Crooked Timber:  Before the speech, if you&#8217;d asked me which candidate I&#8217;d support if I could vote, I&#8217;d have said Obama. After the speech, it&#8217;s quite different. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233279</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233279</guid>
		<description>Laleh certainly does have a point, but her point is specifically about JFK, who indeed was one of the worst and most dangerous presidents in the recent history. No one knows if Obama would be like JFK or Carter or Clinton or something else. While the system remains the same, the figurehead on top can still make a small but significant difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Laleh certainly does have a point, but her point is specifically about <span class="caps">JFK</span>, who indeed was one of the worst and most dangerous presidents in the recent history. No one knows if Obama would be like <span class="caps">JFK</span> or Carter or Clinton or something else. While the system remains the same, the figurehead on top can still make a small but significant difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233245</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233245</guid>
		<description>Laleh,

You have a point there. When Bush won a second term I took solace in the thought that the more he misused America&#039;s power the more rapidly he frittered it away. I&#039;m not saying that&#039;s a good thing on the whole, but it has some good aspects.

Similarly, a McCain presidency might drive Henry back to Ireland where perhaps he can find a way to deal with Bertie Ahern. Americans, I call on you to vote McCain and halt the Euro brain-drain!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Laleh,</p>

	<p>You have a point there. When Bush won a second term I took solace in the thought that the more he misused America&#8217;s power the more rapidly he frittered it away. I&#8217;m not saying that&#8217;s a good thing on the whole, but it has some good aspects.</p>

	<p>Similarly, a McCain presidency might drive Henry back to Ireland where perhaps he can find a way to deal with Bertie Ahern. Americans, I call on you to vote McCain and halt the Euro brain-drain!</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233244</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233244</guid>
		<description>Richard @110,

your point is valid. But I was referring only to how it felt at that magical moment when the Tories became a southern English regional party, not to how things later unfolded. Bliss it was on that day to be alive, and to have a bellyfull of celebratory beer was very heaven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Richard @110,</p>

	<p>your point is valid. But I was referring only to how it felt at that magical moment when the Tories became a southern English regional party, not to how things later unfolded. Bliss it was on that day to be alive, and to have a bellyfull of celebratory beer was very heaven.</p>
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		<title>By: Laleh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233240</link>
		<dc:creator>Laleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233240</guid>
		<description>I actually think that the better comparative case with Obama is not Blair, but JF Kennedy. It so happens that I am not into the Cult of Kennedy.  The man coined the word &quot;counterinsurgency&quot;, had that horrendous hawk (and modernization nut) Rostow as his NS advisor, and during his brief tenure was responsible for the Bay of Pigs and a deepening of US hegemonic _and_ coercive power throughout the world. 

As a citizen of the US I do see Obama&#039;s attraction, but what worries me at the moment is the extent to which the power of the US, deployed via the gun or hegemonic multilateralism, is shaping the world in ways that are more destructive than the British and French empire&#039;s works put together.

As a citizen of the world, I&#039;d almost rather have the wolf in wolf&#039;s clothing, rather than in the garb of a well-spoken, obviously intelligent, obviously inspiring character.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I actually think that the better comparative case with Obama is not Blair, but <span class="caps">JF </span>Kennedy. It so happens that I am not into the Cult of Kennedy.  The man coined the word &#8220;counterinsurgency&#8221;, had that horrendous hawk (and modernization nut) Rostow as his NS advisor, and during his brief tenure was responsible for the Bay of Pigs and a deepening of US hegemonic <em>and</em> coercive power throughout the world.</p>

	<p>As a citizen of the <span class="caps">US I</span> do see Obama&#8217;s attraction, but what worries me at the moment is the extent to which the power of the US, deployed via the gun or hegemonic multilateralism, is shaping the world in ways that are more destructive than the British and French empire&#8217;s works put together.</p>

	<p>As a citizen of the world, I&#8217;d almost rather have the wolf in wolf&#8217;s clothing, rather than in the garb of a well-spoken, obviously intelligent, obviously inspiring character.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/comment-page-3/#comment-233238</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/19/the-early-days-of-a-better-nation/#comment-233238</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;my entire childhood in England occurred against the backdrop of the miner’s strike&lt;/em&gt;

Well, it occurred during mine too...I heard Scargill in 1996, just after he started his Socialist Labour outfit. Most of the people I was with were A-level economics kids, so was I; but he still had them cheering and yelling &quot;Yorkshire! Yorkshire!&quot; 

It was my first experience of real oratory; I recall him as a tiny man who seemed about to erupt with energy. His dramatic pacing was perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>my entire childhood in England occurred against the backdrop of the miner&#8217;s strike</em></p>

	<p>Well, it occurred during mine too&#8230;I heard Scargill in 1996, just after he started his Socialist Labour outfit. Most of the people I was with were A-level economics kids, so was I; but he still had them cheering and yelling &#8220;Yorkshire! Yorkshire!&#8221;</p>

	<p>It was my first experience of real oratory; I recall him as a tiny man who seemed about to erupt with energy. His dramatic pacing was perfect.</p>
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