Comments on: Big battle for Basra? http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 05:09:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: dr puma http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234306 dr puma Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:06:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234306 Rule No. 1 of war -- respect your enemy and never underestimate. The only way out for the U.S. military is right back to Kuwait. Sadr can raise a one million man Mahdi army anytime he cares to. Used as a blocking force to the south, the U.S. military would be effectively trapped in Iraq. As for the Badr Brigade, the USA is paying them millions of dollars to stay out of the war. It helps to remember that the Badr Brigade, when it first rolled into Iraq, said, "We will help you (the USA) take down Saddam Hussein, and then we will turn our guns on you (the USA). The real Iraq war is yet to come. Rule No. 1 of war—respect your enemy and never underestimate. The only way out for the U.S. military is right back to Kuwait. Sadr can raise a one million man Mahdi army anytime he cares to. Used as a blocking force to the south, the U.S. military would be effectively trapped in Iraq. As for the Badr Brigade, the USA is paying them millions of dollars to stay out of the war. It helps to remember that the Badr Brigade, when it first rolled into Iraq, said, “We will help you (the USA) take down Saddam Hussein, and then we will turn our guns on you (the USA). The real Iraq war is yet to come.

]]> By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234295 Roy Belmont Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:14:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234295 r.bubba- If Americanizing "arsehole" is escalation, I stand guilty as charged. Otherwise, no. I can barely bring myself to type the quoted word, let alone speak it. It's always seemed bizarre. Until I met someone from England who could conclusively verify it wasn't just some prissy stand-in, but was actually commonly used, I thought it was like that disemvowelled "f*ck" or "the 'f' word", that some squeamish folks find to be acceptable parlance. It's unmelodious, and doesn't scan. r.bubba-
If Americanizing “arsehole” is escalation, I stand guilty as charged.
Otherwise, no.
I can barely bring myself to type the quoted word, let alone speak it.
It’s always seemed bizarre. Until I met someone from England who could conclusively verify it wasn’t just some prissy stand-in, but was actually commonly used, I thought it was like that disemvowelled “f*ck” or “the ‘f’ word”, that some squeamish folks find to be acceptable parlance.
It’s unmelodious, and doesn’t scan.

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234269 Righteous Bubba Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:10:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234269 <i>One of the unwritten rules of stuff like this is you don’t escalate negativity.</i> [...] <i>Which makes you an asshole.</i> Hmm. One of the unwritten rules of stuff like this is you don’t escalate negativity.

[...]

Which makes you an asshole.

Hmm.

]]> By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234258 Roy Belmont Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:08:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234258 #78: More accurately, Seth says some things that you're trained to recognize as opportunities for scorn and derision, so you scorn and deride. One of the unwritten rules of stuff like this is you don't escalate negativity. You meet it head on, preferably with reserve and superior language. But you don't escalate. That what he said was in no way incoherent or whack is beside the point. You met his earnestness with pettiness and personal insult. Which makes you an asshole. #78:
More accurately, Seth says some things that you’re trained to recognize as opportunities for scorn and derision, so you scorn and deride.
One of the unwritten rules of stuff like this is you don’t escalate negativity. You meet it head on, preferably with reserve and superior language. But you don’t escalate.
That what he said was in no way incoherent or whack is beside the point. You met his earnestness with pettiness and personal insult. Which makes you an asshole.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234076 Barry Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:55:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234076 "Here’s some aspiring – you’ll need it in a bit. We could all do with aspiring…arsehole." Posted by Alex Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... Seth gets whackjob incoherent, and I point it out, so I'm the arsehole? “Here’s some aspiring – you’ll need it in a bit.

We could all do with aspiring…arsehole.”

Posted by Alex

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww… Seth gets whackjob incoherent, and I point it out, so I’m the arsehole?

]]> By: Dan Simon http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234047 Dan Simon Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:01:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234047 [what part of "banned" do you not understand?] [what part of “banned” do you not understand?]

]]> By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234042 Roy Belmont Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:17:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234042 #64:<i>...my one and only concern is that as few people die as possible...</i> That's a fine sentiment, especially when the people concerned are all of a kind, and interchangeable. But what about those valiant minority scenarios? You know where there's just a few of the beleaguered little guys bravely holding out against a numerically far superior force, and by that keeping the conflict going full-tilt; so that removing them, a comparative handful, will mean a cessation of conflict sooner rather than later. That would conceivably give you the numbers you're looking for, but morally it seems a little sketchy. It's comforting to certain liberal sensibilities to imagine all Iraqis, especially the ones with guns, as interchangeable, with no really important distinctions between them. Like football players - they can change uniforms or whatever, but it's all the same game. I don't speak Arabic and have to rely on the internet for virtually all the information I get about it, but it seems pretty clear to me there's some profound differences between Maliki and Al-Sadr, ethical and moral differences, and between the groups they're responsible for, and to. Pretending there aren't would make the numerical sorting out a little easier though, I can see how that would be. #64:…my one and only concern is that as few people die as possible…
That’s a fine sentiment, especially when the people concerned are all of a kind, and interchangeable.
But what about those valiant minority scenarios? You know where there’s just a few of the beleaguered little guys bravely holding out against a numerically far superior force, and by that keeping the conflict going full-tilt; so that removing them, a comparative handful, will mean a cessation of conflict sooner rather than later.
That would conceivably give you the numbers you’re looking for, but morally it seems a little sketchy.
It’s comforting to certain liberal sensibilities to imagine all Iraqis, especially the ones with guns, as interchangeable, with no really important distinctions between them. Like football players – they can change uniforms or whatever, but it’s all the same game.
I don’t speak Arabic and have to rely on the internet for virtually all the information I get about it, but it seems pretty clear to me there’s some profound differences between Maliki and Al-Sadr, ethical and moral differences, and between the groups they’re responsible for, and to.
Pretending there aren’t would make the numerical sorting out a little easier though, I can see how that would be.

]]> By: Martin Wisse http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234022 Martin Wisse Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:15:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234022 Naaah, I'll stand by my earlier evaluation: Vietnam might have won the war, but it was still a devestated country that is still suffering the consequences. Naaah, I’ll stand by my earlier evaluation: Vietnam might have won the war, but it was still a devestated country that is still suffering the consequences.

]]> By: Send lawyers, guns, and money « Alternate Seat of TYR http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234020 Send lawyers, guns, and money « Alternate Seat of TYR Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:54:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234020 [...] Daniel Davies has apparently finally taken my much repeated advice and read A Bright Shining Lie, which has apparently led him to conclude that the Dawa-Sadr fighting is a good thing on the grounds that it strengthens the government, even if only as the biggest gang. Well, it has led the annoying look-at-me contrarian Daniel Davies to do so; what the real one thinks I don’t know. I don’t agree; the Sadr movement demonstrated its deterrent capability on day one, when it resumed rocketing the Green Zone and seized police stations across the Big Gap in southern Iraq, as well as the road between Amara and Basra, rather as they did in the first and second Shia risings in 2004. Further to its massive popularity, the Sadrists also have had at least a tacit alliance with some currents in NOIA - there’s a risk of the whole shithouse crashing down. Note that the Dawa and Sadrists, and ISIC, are on the opposite sides of one of Iraq’s worst territorial fights. [...] [...] Daniel Davies has apparently finally taken my much repeated advice and read A Bright Shining Lie, which has apparently led him to conclude that the Dawa-Sadr fighting is a good thing on the grounds that it strengthens the government, even if only as the biggest gang. Well, it has led the annoying look-at-me contrarian Daniel Davies to do so; what the real one thinks I don’t know. I don’t agree; the Sadr movement demonstrated its deterrent capability on day one, when it resumed rocketing the Green Zone and seized police stations across the Big Gap in southern Iraq, as well as the road between Amara and Basra, rather as they did in the first and second Shia risings in 2004. Further to its massive popularity, the Sadrists also have had at least a tacit alliance with some currents in NOIA - there’s a risk of the whole shithouse crashing down. Note that the Dawa and Sadrists, and ISIC, are on the opposite sides of one of Iraq’s worst territorial fights. [...]

]]> By: Alex http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234019 Alex Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:49:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234019 <em>Here’s some aspiring – you’ll need it in a bit.</em> We could all do with aspiring...arsehole. Here’s some aspiring – you’ll need it in a bit.

We could all do with aspiring…arsehole.

]]> By: lemuel pitkin http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234016 lemuel pitkin Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:51:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234016 <i>The Visser piece is certainly very good.</i> Roger that. The Visser piece is certainly very good.

Roger that.

]]> By: seth edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234012 seth edenbaum Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:37:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234012 Daniel, I don't question your intentions and never would, but I think you pay too much attention to American perspectives and assumptions, those of people who claim to be out of the mainstream but whose arguments are no less based on defensiveness and ignorance. You're still the only person writing on this site who I read for enjoyment. The rest of them by and large can go to hell. But I disagree with you on this. Daniel, I don’t question your intentions and never would, but I think you pay too much attention to American perspectives and assumptions, those of people who claim to be out of the mainstream but whose arguments are no less based on defensiveness and ignorance.

You’re still the only person writing on this site who I read for enjoyment. The rest of them by and large can go to hell. But I disagree with you on this.

]]> By: dsquared http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234009 dsquared Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:23:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234009 The Visser piece is certainly very good. The Visser piece is certainly very good.

]]> By: seth edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234008 seth edenbaum Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:12:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234008 "As far as I can see, success for Maliki in Basra will lead to the USA getting out quicker than failure, therefore I’m hoping for success. " I disagree. As luck would have it Reidar Visser's <a href="http://historiae.org/sawlah.asp" rel="nofollow">analysis</a> just showed up in my in-box. I'd choose my generalizations over yours, but knowledge should win out yes? Everyone <a href="http://historiae.org/" rel="nofollow">sign up</a>. “As far as I can see, success for Maliki in Basra will lead to the USA getting out quicker than failure, therefore I’m hoping for success. ”
I disagree.

As luck would have it Reidar Visser’s analysis just showed up in my in-box. I’d choose my generalizations over yours, but knowledge should win out yes?
Everyone sign up.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/comment-page-2/#comment-234007 Barry Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:10:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/25/big-battle-for-basra/#comment-234007 Seth, Here's some coffee - no, not that cup, the real cup. Yes, you see two cups and two right hands, and that's a problem. Let me put the cup into your hand. Here's some aspiring - you'll need it in a bit. Here's the trashcan; you look like your stomach is about to send the whiskey back up. No, not the bottle; that got you where you are now. Just relax and drink some coffee. Seth,

Here’s some coffee – no, not that cup, the real cup. Yes, you see two cups and two right hands, and that’s a problem. Let me put the cup into your hand. Here’s some aspiring – you’ll need it in a bit. Here’s the trashcan; you look like your stomach is about to send the whiskey back up. No, not the bottle; that got you where you are now. Just relax and drink some coffee.

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