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	<title>Comments on: More Kindle &amp; etc.</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Gordon Rogers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238401</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238401</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the growing availability of free content (Gutenberg, Wikibooks, etc,) will eventually exert a degree of downward pricing pressure on the textbook publishing cartel. Students are notorious for their ability to ferret out free content, and the open source movement will only accelerate this trend. As an example, a start-up in the U.S. called Flatworld Knowledge is developing free, open-source, online college textbooks (ad-free as well). There will no doubt be others. The market will drive the price down as students (and professors who are not part of the cartel) ask themselves: &quot;Why should I pay $75 for a European History textbook, for a 15 week course, when I can download a free one?&quot; For a look at the future of Pearson, Prentice Hall et al, take a look at Kodak, EMI, and other 20th century stalwarts of the analogue world. They&#039;re a fraction of their former size and market cap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Perhaps the growing availability of free content (Gutenberg, Wikibooks, etc,) will eventually exert a degree of downward pricing pressure on the textbook publishing cartel. Students are notorious for their ability to ferret out free content, and the open source movement will only accelerate this trend. As an example, a start-up in the U.S. called Flatworld Knowledge is developing free, open-source, online college textbooks (ad-free as well). There will no doubt be others. The market will drive the price down as students (and professors who are not part of the cartel) ask themselves: &#8220;Why should I pay $75 for a European History textbook, for a 15 week course, when I can download a free one?&#8221; For a look at the future of Pearson, Prentice Hall et al, take a look at Kodak, <span class="caps">EMI</span>, and other 20th century stalwarts of the analogue world. They&#8217;re a fraction of their former size and market cap.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238396</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238396</guid>
		<description>Uh, maybe I&#039;m beating this to death, but with the exception of the recent housing bubble in the US (and a few other, similar places and times) renting hasn&#039;t necessarily been cheaper than buying, given that almost everyone buys with a mortgage. Pre-bubble it was not at all uncommon that the after-tax cost of purchasing a house (for some definition of purchasing that included the bank having a substantial claim) was lower than the after-tax cost of renting. Instead, rental has been about mobility, risk-sharing, access to capital markets, stickiness of large transactions, blah blah blah.

Which also gets us to a lot of questions about ebooks and other digital content. Given the DRM, the fragility of computer hardware and digital data formats, questions about the longevity of the companies and business models, lousy interfaces for buying things (not to mention reading or playing them) and so forth, the value of ebooks is rather significantly less. DRM makes things worse than no DRM, but even without it I get a sense that I&#039;m ultimately renting the work rather than purchasing it permanently. And I don&#039;t get to go down to one of several local bookstores, chat with the staff and customers, and generally have a good time.

As a result, for the time being I&#039;ve limited myself to Gutenberg and a few other zero-dollar-cost purveyors, because that&#039;s worth the hassle of navigating the interface, and if something goes south I can just download the same work again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Uh, maybe I&#8217;m beating this to death, but with the exception of the recent housing bubble in the <span class="caps">US </span>(and a few other, similar places and times) renting hasn&#8217;t necessarily been cheaper than buying, given that almost everyone buys with a mortgage. Pre-bubble it was not at all uncommon that the after-tax cost of purchasing a house (for some definition of purchasing that included the bank having a substantial claim) was lower than the after-tax cost of renting. Instead, rental has been about mobility, risk-sharing, access to capital markets, stickiness of large transactions, blah blah blah.</p>

	<p>Which also gets us to a lot of questions about ebooks and other digital content. Given the <span class="caps">DRM</span>, the fragility of computer hardware and digital data formats, questions about the longevity of the companies and business models, lousy interfaces for buying things (not to mention reading or playing them) and so forth, the value of ebooks is rather significantly less. <span class="caps">DRM</span> makes things worse than no <span class="caps">DRM</span>, but even without it I get a sense that I&#8217;m ultimately renting the work rather than purchasing it permanently. And I don&#8217;t get to go down to one of several local bookstores, chat with the staff and customers, and generally have a good time.</p>

	<p>As a result, for the time being I&#8217;ve limited myself to Gutenberg and a few other zero-dollar-cost purveyors, because that&#8217;s worth the hassle of navigating the interface, and if something goes south I can just download the same work again.</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238372</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238372</guid>
		<description>To extend the welfare fraud/kindle TOS analogy, do the landlords and/or house builders come in unannounced and rifle through the renters bookshelves, record collections and post, looking for items that they themselves did not supply? Do they bring eviction notices with them, just in case they find some bit of information in the house that they do not approve of?

I&#039;m now undecided about the first sale vs. cheaper service question - although I think the general bias should be against taking away a user&#039;s rights to the data used - but the Kindle terms as written seem to hold the door open for all kinds of abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To extend the welfare fraud/kindle <span class="caps">TOS</span> analogy, do the landlords and/or house builders come in unannounced and rifle through the renters bookshelves, record collections and post, looking for items that they themselves did not supply? Do they bring eviction notices with them, just in case they find some bit of information in the house that they do not approve of?</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m now undecided about the first sale vs. cheaper service question &#8211; although I think the general bias should be against taking away a user&#8217;s rights to the data used &#8211; but the Kindle terms as written seem to hold the door open for all kinds of abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238251</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238251</guid>
		<description>OK, zamfir, this sounds like a difference between Holland and the US -- here middle-class folk like myself don&#039;t usually get benefits based on where we live, so there&#039;s no one looking over our shoulder. And my friends who&#039;ve worked in public housing say there are issues there about checking on the income of residents, and to some extent monitoring who lives there (though it sounded like this was &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; far from cameras in every room -- wasn&#039;t enough resources to check very aggressively). 

But it seems as though in your case the people doing the checking are the government who are dispensing benefits based on residence, not the landlords, which is a disanalogy to the DRM case. I think that unauthorized subletters absenting themselves when the landlord comes over happens here too, but there at least the landlord is actually doing repairs -- it seems as though DRM here involves the company doing surveillance without actually doing much to upgrade your service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, zamfir, this sounds like a difference between Holland and the <span class="caps">US </span>&#8212;here middle-class folk like myself don&#8217;t usually get benefits based on where we live, so there&#8217;s no one looking over our shoulder. And my friends who&#8217;ve worked in public housing say there are issues there about checking on the income of residents, and to some extent monitoring who lives there (though it sounded like this was <i>very</i> far from cameras in every room&#8212;wasn&#8217;t enough resources to check very aggressively).</p>

	<p>But it seems as though in your case the people doing the checking are the government who are dispensing benefits based on residence, not the landlords, which is a disanalogy to the <span class="caps">DRM</span> case. I think that unauthorized subletters absenting themselves when the landlord comes over happens here too, but there at least the landlord is actually doing repairs&#8212;it seems as though <span class="caps">DRM</span> here involves the company doing surveillance without actually doing much to upgrade your service.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238186</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 09:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238186</guid>
		<description>Samizdat! Fight the power!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Samizdat! Fight the power!</p>
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		<title>By: Great Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238183</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238183</guid>
		<description>That should be &quot;people on benefits who were letting rooms would NOT allow the student to register at that address.

What happened to the preview that used to be below?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That should be &#8220;people on benefits who were letting rooms would <span class="caps">NOT</span> allow the student to register at that address.</p>

	<p>What happened to the preview that used to be below?</p>
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		<title>By: Great Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238182</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 08:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238182</guid>
		<description>There is of course a point were the housing-books analogy fails, but I think the analogy holds for a large part of the right-to-read story. 

As a student I have seen quite some moves that do resemble the mp3 vs DRM struggle. The Dutch government gives higher allowances to people living on their own tahn to people living with their parents, so some people stay with their parents but register themselves elsewhere, usually with family.   The organization giving the allowances knows this happens, so they do check al records they can get their hands on to see wher you are really living. Of course not to videocamera level, but they do check your health insurance etc.

The other way round also exists: people on benefits wwho were letting rooms would allow the student to register at that address, since the extra income from letting would make them entitled to lower benefits. Resulting, of course, in students doing the &#039;register with family member&#039; trick.

A last one: I was subrenting a room in England for some time, but the others hadn&#039;t told their landlord (landlady?). So when she came to repair something and generally check out the house, I would go the city for a few hours and return when she was gone. It  reminded me of the trouble people would go through to get Service Pack 2 on their illegal Windows versions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There is of course a point were the housing-books analogy fails, but I think the analogy holds for a large part of the right-to-read story.</p>

	<p>As a student I have seen quite some moves that do resemble the mp3 vs <span class="caps">DRM</span> struggle. The Dutch government gives higher allowances to people living on their own tahn to people living with their parents, so some people stay with their parents but register themselves elsewhere, usually with family.   The organization giving the allowances knows this happens, so they do check al records they can get their hands on to see wher you are really living. Of course not to videocamera level, but they do check your health insurance etc.</p>

	<p>The other way round also exists: people on benefits wwho were letting rooms would allow the student to register at that address, since the extra income from letting would make them entitled to lower benefits. Resulting, of course, in students doing the &#8216;register with family member&#8217; trick.</p>

	<p>A last one: I was subrenting a room in England for some time, but the others hadn&#8217;t told their landlord (landlady?). So when she came to repair something and generally check out the house, I would go the city for a few hours and return when she was gone. It  reminded me of the trouble people would go through to get Service Pack 2 on their illegal Windows versions.</p>
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		<title>By: jholbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238057</link>
		<dc:creator>jholbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238057</guid>
		<description>jon h, I think Apple has actually improved their deauthorization system. You can just go into your account, see your list of machines and delete one. No muss, no fuss. I think that&#039;s right. (It used to be hard, I know.) 

Again, I don&#039;t find it mysterious that Apple would recommend that you deauthorize your old machine. I just find it peculiar that they would encourage you to think that someone listening to your files was a &#039;bad&#039; above and beyond the loss of your authorization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>jon h, I think Apple has actually improved their deauthorization system. You can just go into your account, see your list of machines and delete one. No muss, no fuss. I think that&#8217;s right. (It used to be hard, I know.)</p>

	<p>Again, I don&#8217;t find it mysterious that Apple would recommend that you deauthorize your old machine. I just find it peculiar that they would encourage you to think that someone listening to your files was a &#8216;bad&#8217; above and beyond the loss of your authorization.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238044</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238044</guid>
		<description>John wrote: &quot;Yes, but what struck me was that the passage seemed to emphasize that the badness of losing an authorization was something over and above the badness of someone else just plain listening to your music.&quot;

Well, it is, if you want to use that authorization on another computer.

If the point was just to keep other people from listening to your music, they&#039;d probably advise you to *delete* the music. As it stands, they don&#039;t seem to have a position on ripping all your CDs into iTunes and then giving away the computer they&#039;re on.

(Also, a computer has to be authorized in order to listen to iTunes store music that is only streamed from another computer. So the old computer might not even have any DRM media files on it, even though it&#039;s authorized.)

There&#039;s a way to deauthorize all machines in one fell swoop, actually, so it&#039;s not like losing an authorized machine will be a permanent loss. But it is a bit of a hassle. Getting that &#039;You&#039;ve used up your 5 authorizations&#039; message when you try to do something on a computer is a bit of a buzzkill, especially when you can&#039;t easily access other the computers to deauthorize a particular machine that isn&#039;t needed anymore.

Worst-case scenario, of course, would be if you gave away an authorized machine and it also had your iTunes account login information stored, so the new owner could buy stuff on your credit card. Deauthorizing the machine ought to at least ensure that doesn&#039;t happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John wrote: &#8220;Yes, but what struck me was that the passage seemed to emphasize that the badness of losing an authorization was something over and above the badness of someone else just plain listening to your music.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Well, it is, if you want to use that authorization on another computer.</p>

	<p>If the point was just to keep other people from listening to your music, they&#8217;d probably advise you to <strong>delete</strong> the music. As it stands, they don&#8217;t seem to have a position on ripping all your CDs into iTunes and then giving away the computer they&#8217;re on.</p>

	<p>(Also, a computer has to be authorized in order to listen to iTunes store music that is only streamed from another computer. So the old computer might not even have any <span class="caps">DRM</span> media files on it, even though it&#8217;s authorized.)</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s a way to deauthorize all machines in one fell swoop, actually, so it&#8217;s not like losing an authorized machine will be a permanent loss. But it is a bit of a hassle. Getting that &#8216;You&#8217;ve used up your 5 authorizations&#8217; message when you try to do something on a computer is a bit of a buzzkill, especially when you can&#8217;t easily access other the computers to deauthorize a particular machine that isn&#8217;t needed anymore.</p>

	<p>Worst-case scenario, of course, would be if you gave away an authorized machine and it also had your iTunes account login information stored, so the new owner could buy stuff on your credit card. Deauthorizing the machine ought to at least ensure that doesn&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238012</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238012</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I suspect that the analogy breaks down pretty badly over the excludability issue. &lt;/i&gt;

Well yes. You *can* set up a massive legal and technological roadblocks to reproducing information to make it just as costly and difficult as reproducing physical goods. &quot;I have to pay every time I want to see a band perform live, so why shouldn&#039;t I pay every time I listen to a recording? It&#039;s impossible to lend a friend a paper book while keeping a copy for myself, so why should I be able to do that with an electronic book?&quot; Etc.

The point is, first, that&#039;s deliberately eliminating much of the beneift of information technology in order to allow a few businesses to remain profitable under their old business model. And second, in practice, doing so requires a lot of intrusive surveillance. What if landlords insisted on installing cameras in every room of rental housing to make sure there were no illegal sublets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I suspect that the analogy breaks down pretty badly over the excludability issue. </i></p>

	<p>Well yes. You <strong>can</strong> set up a massive legal and technological roadblocks to reproducing information to make it just as costly and difficult as reproducing physical goods. &#8220;I have to pay every time I want to see a band perform live, so why shouldn&#8217;t I pay every time I listen to a recording? It&#8217;s impossible to lend a friend a paper book while keeping a copy for myself, so why should I be able to do that with an electronic book?&#8221; Etc.</p>

	<p>The point is, first, that&#8217;s deliberately eliminating much of the beneift of information technology in order to allow a few businesses to remain profitable under their old business model. And second, in practice, doing so requires a lot of intrusive surveillance. What if landlords insisted on installing cameras in every room of rental housing to make sure there were no illegal sublets?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238010</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238010</guid>
		<description>Dave @20 on right to housing dystopias; I think the point is that it all is true, and we don&#039;t find it objectionable; we&#039;re willing to trade off some of our rights over the place where we live for lower housing costs; so maybe we shouldn&#039;t be so appalled at the idea that we may be asked to trade off some of our rights over our books/music in exchange for lower housing costs.

I suspect that the analogy breaks down pretty badly over the excludability issue. No one else can live in my apartment while I&#039;m here, and my landlords expect to get it back when I&#039;m done with it and rent it to someone else. (This also has obvious bearing on why I feel queasy about others staying in my house.) But digital media in principle can be shared without making them unavailable to the person who has them, and even with physical books and CDs the original manufacturer isn&#039;t expecting them back when I&#039;m done with them. (&lt;i&gt;Pace&lt;/i&gt; Holbo&#039;s last link.) So they don&#039;t have the continued interest in the actual thing I have that the landlord has in my apartment. I think that&#039;s also why people don&#039;t find the restrictions inherent in libraries/video stores/Netflix particularly creepy, because those folks &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; expecting their product back so they can reuse it.

None of which is to say that there might be good reason to deal with some DRM for a &lt;i&gt;substantial&lt;/i&gt; discount, and I think that&#039;s mostly what zamfir was saying. But I don&#039;t think we can build a normative case that this is OK by an analogy to housing.

(Also on the subject of MP3s: isn&#039;t part of the issue that they&#039;re inferior sound quality?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dave @20 on right to housing dystopias; I think the point is that it all is true, and we don&#8217;t find it objectionable; we&#8217;re willing to trade off some of our rights over the place where we live for lower housing costs; so maybe we shouldn&#8217;t be so appalled at the idea that we may be asked to trade off some of our rights over our books/music in exchange for lower housing costs.</p>

	<p>I suspect that the analogy breaks down pretty badly over the excludability issue. No one else can live in my apartment while I&#8217;m here, and my landlords expect to get it back when I&#8217;m done with it and rent it to someone else. (This also has obvious bearing on why I feel queasy about others staying in my house.) But digital media in principle can be shared without making them unavailable to the person who has them, and even with physical books and CDs the original manufacturer isn&#8217;t expecting them back when I&#8217;m done with them. (<i>Pace</i> Holbo&#8217;s last link.) So they don&#8217;t have the continued interest in the actual thing I have that the landlord has in my apartment. I think that&#8217;s also why people don&#8217;t find the restrictions inherent in libraries/video stores/Netflix particularly creepy, because those folks <i>are</i> expecting their product back so they can reuse it.</p>

	<p>None of which is to say that there might be good reason to deal with some <span class="caps">DRM</span> for a <i>substantial</i> discount, and I think that&#8217;s mostly what zamfir was saying. But I don&#8217;t think we can build a normative case that this is OK by an analogy to housing.</p>

	<p>(Also on the subject of MP3s: isn&#8217;t part of the issue that they&#8217;re inferior sound quality?)</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-238004</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-238004</guid>
		<description>JH: I actually meant that Audible&#039;s prices are only a bit below the CD versions, at least for stuff I&#039;m interested in. For instance, Amazon charges £8 for each CD of the radio version of H2G2, while Audible charges £9. I picked up the collected edition at a bookshop for £50. That&#039;s insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JH: I actually meant that Audible&#8217;s prices are only a bit below the CD versions, at least for stuff I&#8217;m interested in. For instance, Amazon charges &#163;8 for each CD of the radio version of <span class="caps">H2G2</span>, while Audible charges &#163;9. I picked up the collected edition at a bookshop for &#163;50. That&#8217;s insane.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-237983</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-237983</guid>
		<description>@8: &quot;&#039;Right-to-housing’ dystopia about a place where you do not actually own your house, and you cannot sublet it without telling the owner, and where the government knows exactly where you live, and companies use that information to send you junk mail and people feel queasy about strangers staying in their houses etc. etc.&quot;

Which parts of that aren&#039;t substantially true, in a significant number of jurisdictions? Or are you just being ironic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@8: &#8220;&#8217;Right-to-housing&#8217; dystopia about a place where you do not actually own your house, and you cannot sublet it without telling the owner, and where the government knows exactly where you live, and companies use that information to send you junk mail and people feel queasy about strangers staying in their houses etc. etc.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Which parts of that aren&#8217;t substantially true, in a significant number of jurisdictions? Or are you just being ironic?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-237981</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-237981</guid>
		<description>LARGE PRINT: this is one of those things that is technically trivial but prevented by tedious licensing issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">LARGE PRINT</span>: this is one of those things that is technically trivial but prevented by tedious licensing issues.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/04/29/more-kindle-etc/comment-page-1/#comment-237960</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6876#comment-237960</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve recently been dating a professional musician (yes, there’s someone for everyone, even pseudonymous blog commenters) and one interesting thing I’ve learned is that using only “real copies” is a very strongly held value in the classical music world. Orchestras mail them to performers, and if a composer sees his work being performed on photocopier- or printer-made copies, it’s potentially a major scandal.&quot;

Hmmm, I performed in an orchestra up to the upper levels of amateurism, years ago (up through U of Chicago Symphony). Everyone was always pretty laid back about photocopying. I never thought about IP in those days and never really noticed, maybe. Of course it was assumed that the organization actually bought the stuff. But if one violin lost his original and photocopied the next guy&#039;s that was not an issue. I suspect that copyright care at the very highest levels of professional performance are probably like font licenses in design firms/ad agencies. When there is big money, you keep your nose very clean about the small stuff. 

If a composer thought a major orchestra was performing his piece without having, in effect, licensed the performance, THAT would be a scandal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I&#8217;ve recently been dating a professional musician (yes, there&#8217;s someone for everyone, even pseudonymous blog commenters) and one interesting thing I&#8217;ve learned is that using only &#8220;real copies&#8221; is a very strongly held value in the classical music world. Orchestras mail them to performers, and if a composer sees his work being performed on photocopier- or printer-made copies, it&#8217;s potentially a major scandal.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Hmmm, I performed in an orchestra up to the upper levels of amateurism, years ago (up through U of Chicago Symphony). Everyone was always pretty laid back about photocopying. I never thought about IP in those days and never really noticed, maybe. Of course it was assumed that the organization actually bought the stuff. But if one violin lost his original and photocopied the next guy&#8217;s that was not an issue. I suspect that copyright care at the very highest levels of professional performance are probably like font licenses in design firms/ad agencies. When there is big money, you keep your nose very clean about the small stuff.</p>

	<p>If a composer thought a major orchestra was performing his piece without having, in effect, licensed the performance, <span class="caps">THAT</span> would be a scandal.</p>
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