<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: House size doubles?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:39:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank the sales forecaster</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240563</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank the sales forecaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 21:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240563</guid>
		<description>dang ya&#039;ll
In 1950 less than 8% of households had a college grad as head of household and less than 33% of households had 2 wage earners.  By 2005 more than 20% of households had a college grad as head and almost 66% of all households have 2 wage earners.  Lots of these households have 2 college grads.  Housing is a function of income with housing costs increasing at rate greater than income.  Given the puzzling evidence that a much greater percentage of households own a home and that it is a much nicer home than previous generations, maybe your understanding of income growth/inflation needs adjusting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>dang ya&#8217;ll<br />
In 1950 less than 8% of households had a college grad as head of household and less than 33% of households had 2 wage earners.  By 2005 more than 20% of households had a college grad as head and almost 66% of all households have 2 wage earners.  Lots of these households have 2 college grads.  Housing is a function of income with housing costs increasing at rate greater than income.  Given the puzzling evidence that a much greater percentage of households own a home and that it is a much nicer home than previous generations, maybe your understanding of income growth/inflation needs adjusting.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240562</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240562</guid>
		<description>74:

Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by &quot;looking under the lamppost&quot;. The increase in square footage is typically invoked as a response to the increases in share of household spending going to housing. Implicitly or explicitly, it&#039;s &quot;but look how much more people are getting for the additional money they&#039;re spending&quot;.

My point was that increased square footage doesn&#039;t necessarily mean increased utility (which tends to correlate better, although still imperfectly, with number of rooms). Increase square footage also doesn&#039;t correlate all that well with increased construction cost. All it correlates with is spending more money, which is something we already knew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>74:</p>

	<p>Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by &#8220;looking under the lamppost&#8221;. The increase in square footage is typically invoked as a response to the increases in share of household spending going to housing. Implicitly or explicitly, it&#8217;s &#8220;but look how much more people are getting for the additional money they&#8217;re spending&#8221;.</p>

	<p>My point was that increased square footage doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean increased utility (which tends to correlate better, although still imperfectly, with number of rooms). Increase square footage also doesn&#8217;t correlate all that well with increased construction cost. All it correlates with is spending more money, which is something we already knew.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240444</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 19:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240444</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Isn’t tracking square footage of houses a really serious example of looking under the lamppost?&lt;/i&gt;

At 21, I posted census data showing a significant increase between 1984 and 2006 in the share of household spending going to housing. So the phenomenon does not seem to be just an artifact of looking at square footage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Isn&#8217;t tracking square footage of houses a really serious example of looking under the lamppost?</i></p>

	<p>At 21, I posted census data showing a significant increase between 1984 and 2006 in the share of household spending going to housing. So the phenomenon does not seem to be just an artifact of looking at square footage.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240435</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 16:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240435</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t tracking square footage of houses a really serious example of looking under the lamppost? Adjusted floor area doesn&#039;t capture the utility of a house, its construction cost, or its selling price. Number of rooms and utility are somewhat better correlated, but even that is seriously dependent on how you define &quot;room&quot; and which rooms (e.g. bathrooms, as mentioned above) get added.

I live in a house whose utility would probably be improved if it were several hundred square feet smaller, because the rooms that are larger than they need to be cost more to furnish, heat and cool; they also make it harder to clean and lead to unpleasant furniture arrangements. I&#039;ve seen plenty of mcmansions where a normal house worth of furniture is just lost in the big rooms, and people turn out to live in a few reasonably-sized corners. Unfortunately, most such houses are built (structurally and architecturally) in ways that make it impossible to rejigger the space into more livable condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Isn&#8217;t tracking square footage of houses a really serious example of looking under the lamppost? Adjusted floor area doesn&#8217;t capture the utility of a house, its construction cost, or its selling price. Number of rooms and utility are somewhat better correlated, but even that is seriously dependent on how you define &#8220;room&#8221; and which rooms (e.g. bathrooms, as mentioned above) get added.</p>

	<p>I live in a house whose utility would probably be improved if it were several hundred square feet smaller, because the rooms that are larger than they need to be cost more to furnish, heat and cool; they also make it harder to clean and lead to unpleasant furniture arrangements. I&#8217;ve seen plenty of mcmansions where a normal house worth of furniture is just lost in the big rooms, and people turn out to live in a few reasonably-sized corners. Unfortunately, most such houses are built (structurally and architecturally) in ways that make it impossible to rejigger the space into more livable condition.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240387</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240387</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, Spencer.  I suspect the increase may have been more rapid in the decades immediately following WWII, but my interest is mainly in the period since the 1970s which your data covers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for this, Spencer.  I suspect the increase may have been more rapid in the decades immediately following <span class="caps">WWII</span>, but my interest is mainly in the period since the 1970s which your data covers.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240383</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240383</guid>
		<description>I found Census data for 1985 that had the median square footage at 1,583 sq. ft.  

That yields an 11% increase to get the 2005 1,758 sp ft.

That is over 20 years or about a 0.5% growth rate.

This implies that the increase over 60 years from 1945 would be about a third as compared to the Builders Association statement that new home sizes doubled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I found Census data for 1985 that had the median square footage at 1,583 sq. ft.</p>

	<p>That yields an 11% increase to get the 2005 1,758 sp ft.</p>

	<p>That is over 20 years or about a 0.5% growth rate.</p>

	<p>This implies that the increase over 60 years from 1945 would be about a third as compared to the Builders Association statement that new home sizes doubled.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240377</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240377</guid>
		<description>The national association data you link to gives the average size of a new home in 2005 as 2,434 sq. ft..

But the Census housing survey has the median size of the existing housing stock at 1,768 sq ft.==
this is 72% of the data you linked to.

I did not check to see how far back the Census housing survey goes back, but you might want to check that data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The national association data you link to gives the average size of a new home in 2005 as 2,434 sq. ft..</p>

	<p>But the Census housing survey has the median size of the existing housing stock at 1,768 sq ft.==<br />
this is 72% of the data you linked to.</p>

	<p>I did not check to see how far back the Census housing survey goes back, but you might want to check that data.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240376</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 19:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240376</guid>
		<description>Because the housing stock is a very long lived asset the average age of the housing stock is around 22 years old.

The median home in the US in 2005 was built in 1973.

Because of this using the size of new homes is using data on the marginal home rather then on the average home.

You need to go to the American Housing Survey at Census to get the data you want.

For example, single family detached homes only account for around 62% of the housing stock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Because the housing stock is a very long lived asset the average age of the housing stock is around 22 years old.</p>

	<p>The median home in the US in 2005 was built in 1973.</p>

	<p>Because of this using the size of new homes is using data on the marginal home rather then on the average home.</p>

	<p>You need to go to the American Housing Survey at Census to get the data you want.</p>

	<p>For example, single family detached homes only account for around 62% of the housing stock.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240372</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 18:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240372</guid>
		<description>Average income for married households is up more than 10%, but the percent of households that are married persons has dropped significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Average income for married households is up more than 10%, but the percent of households that are married persons has dropped significantly.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240371</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 18:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240371</guid>
		<description>I have hard time accepting that with so many more wives working the average family income has only grown 10%. Need to calculate the average income of families living in houses or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have hard time accepting that with so many more wives working the average family income has only grown 10%. Need to calculate the average income of families living in houses or something.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240367</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 17:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240367</guid>
		<description>Abb1,

Good try at cutting a deal, but you&#039;re never going to make it as a real estate broker unless you tell the buyer the house is BIGGER than reported and tell the mortgage company that the buyer&#039;s income is BIGGER than reported.

These arguments became a lot less meaningful to me when I started looking carefully at the time use statistics.  Across all adults in the USA, the average work hours per day is 3.75 hours, the average leisure is 5.09 and of that 5.09, 2.58 is spent watching TV. Big house, flat income, who cares? What people really seem to want is a good TV show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1,</p>

	<p>Good try at cutting a deal, but you&#8217;re never going to make it as a real estate broker unless you tell the buyer the house is <span class="caps">BIGGER</span> than reported and tell the mortgage company that the buyer&#8217;s income is <span class="caps">BIGGER</span> than reported.</p>

	<p>These arguments became a lot less meaningful to me when I started looking carefully at the time use statistics.  Across all adults in the <span class="caps">USA</span>, the average work hours per day is 3.75 hours, the average leisure is 5.09 and of that 5.09, 2.58 is spent watching TV. Big house, flat income, who cares? What people really seem to want is a good TV show.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240366</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 16:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240366</guid>
		<description>Is it also possible that house-size increase is somewhat exaggerated while family-income increase is somewhat underestimated? If it was so, would it make everybody happy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is it also possible that house-size increase is somewhat exaggerated while family-income increase is somewhat underestimated? If it was so, would it make everybody happy?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240365</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 16:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240365</guid>
		<description>And 5:

Changes in school costs and the legal framework in which schools operate made lving in a uniformly high-income area much more valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And 5:</p>

	<p>Changes in school costs and the legal framework in which schools operate made lving in a uniformly high-income area much more valuable.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240362</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 15:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240362</guid>
		<description>Oh, and 

4. The tradeoff between longer commutes and larger houses got more favorable in a period of suburbanization and cheap oil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, and</p>

	<p>4. The tradeoff between longer commutes and larger houses got more favorable in a period of suburbanization and cheap oil.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/comment-page-2/#comment-240361</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 15:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/14/house-size-doubles/#comment-240361</guid>
		<description>John Q. (and Tim Worstall, from the other side) think the puzzle is that a major increase in housing consumption is incompatible with flat household income. John Q. suggests the former must therefore be false, Worstall the latter.

But the evidence is pretty clear that both facts are true, partly because housing costs have declined, but mostly because people are choosing to spend more on housing.

Why people choose to devote to more of their incomes to housing is the puzzle. Presumably, it&#039;s some mix of:

1. Regulations have made it more difficult too build smaller homes.

2. The specialized mortgage-lending system makes it easier to finance housing purchases than alternative forms of consumption. (Yes, this was probably at least as true 30 years ago, but as more and more consumption is debt-driven, ease of financing becomes more important.)

3. Houses becoming more attractive as an investment as well as consumption good. Especially true in the bubble period, obviosuly, but probably a longer-term trend.

Untangling these explanations -- and whatever others I&#039;m not thinking of -- is an interesting question. But John Q.&#039;s approach, of trying to find reasons why housing consumption has not increased as much as it seems to have, is pretty clearly barking up the wrong tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Q. (and Tim Worstall, from the other side) think the puzzle is that a major increase in housing consumption is incompatible with flat household income. John Q. suggests the former must therefore be false, Worstall the latter.</p>

	<p>But the evidence is pretty clear that both facts are true, partly because housing costs have declined, but mostly because people are choosing to spend more on housing.</p>

	<p>Why people choose to devote to more of their incomes to housing is the puzzle. Presumably, it&#8217;s some mix of:</p>

	<p>1. Regulations have made it more difficult too build smaller homes.</p>

	<p>2. The specialized mortgage-lending system makes it easier to finance housing purchases than alternative forms of consumption. (Yes, this was probably at least as true 30 years ago, but as more and more consumption is debt-driven, ease of financing becomes more important.)</p>

	<p>3. Houses becoming more attractive as an investment as well as consumption good. Especially true in the bubble period, obviosuly, but probably a longer-term trend.</p>

	<p>Untangling these explanations&#8212;and whatever others I&#8217;m not thinking of&#8212;is an interesting question. But John Q.&#8217;s approach, of trying to find reasons why housing consumption has not increased as much as it seems to have, is pretty clearly barking up the wrong tree.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 06:48:13 -->
