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	<title>Comments on: Private University Endowments</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: dan k</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242913</link>
		<dc:creator>dan k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242913</guid>
		<description>One useful element missing from the paper is a categorization of the various universities.  Rockefeller University is primarily a research institution and doesn&#039;t even have an undergraduate program.  Several arguments that apply to the Ivies and liberal arts colleges topping the endowment per full-time student list don&#039;t apply to research institutions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One useful element missing from the paper is a categorization of the various universities.  Rockefeller University is primarily a research institution and doesn&#8217;t even have an undergraduate program.  Several arguments that apply to the Ivies and liberal arts colleges topping the endowment per full-time student list don&#8217;t apply to research institutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242837</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242837</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They also, unlike foundations for example, have no obligation to spend the money&lt;/i&gt;

The money-spending requirements on foundations to spend their money are minimal.  I&#039;d bet that most college/university endowments spend a higher percentage of the fund than foundations do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>They also, unlike foundations for example, have no obligation to spend the money</i></p>

	<p>The money-spending requirements on foundations to spend their money are minimal.  I&#8217;d bet that most college/university endowments spend a higher percentage of the fund than foundations do.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242604</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242604</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;You misunderstand. The quality is judged by (generally) anonymous referees from competing universities.&lt;/em&gt;

...Much the way corporate boards are typically drawn from &quot;competing&quot; corporations&#039; top management.  Without oversight that&#039;s external to this whole system, the opportunities for logrolling become irresistible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>You misunderstand. The quality is judged by (generally) anonymous referees from competing universities.</em></p>

	<p>&#8230;Much the way corporate boards are typically drawn from &#8220;competing&#8221; corporations&#8217; top management.  Without oversight that&#8217;s external to this whole system, the opportunities for logrolling become irresistible.</p>
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		<title>By: christian h.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242589</link>
		<dc:creator>christian h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242589</guid>
		<description>brett, if you want to fool yourself into believing that the Rockefellers of this world made their money through hard work and ingenuity, that&#039;s not my problem. I don&#039;t approve of forcing people to abandon their comforting delusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>brett, if you want to fool yourself into believing that the Rockefellers of this world made their money through hard work and ingenuity, that&#8217;s not my problem. I don&#8217;t approve of forcing people to abandon their comforting delusions.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242585</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242585</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day, I agree with Christian H and (by implication) Leon that the social function of endowments would be better achieved by direct public support for universities. 

But Waldeck is operating in a framework where endowments are a major way the long-term stability and autonomy of universities is preserved, and where the tax treatment of endowments is a major form of public support for universities. And it seems clear that even within that framework endowments could do more to support teaching and research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At the end of the day, I agree with Christian H and (by implication) Leon that the social function of endowments would be better achieved by direct public support for universities.</p>

	<p>But Waldeck is operating in a framework where endowments are a major way the long-term stability and autonomy of universities is preserved, and where the tax treatment of endowments is a major form of public support for universities. And it seems clear that even within that framework endowments could do more to support teaching and research.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242568</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242568</guid>
		<description>The Krueger and Dale study not only assures slocum about his kid, but also suggests that for the moment, it doesn&#039;t matter that much if capable kids from the lower orders (that is, from the lower-than-incredibly-high orders) can&#039;t get into places like Harvard, as long as they can go to places like Madison or wherever slocum&#039;s kid goes.

slocum&#039;s depressing comment about the incentives built into financial aid is also true, and worth a subsequent post (slocum, I notice that I almost always agree with you when the topic of higher ed comes up!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Krueger and Dale study not only assures slocum about his kid, but also suggests that for the moment, it doesn&#8217;t matter that much if capable kids from the lower orders (that is, from the lower-than-incredibly-high orders) can&#8217;t get into places like Harvard, as long as they can go to places like Madison or wherever slocum&#8217;s kid goes.</p>

	<p>slocum&#8217;s depressing comment about the incentives built into financial aid is also true, and worth a subsequent post (slocum, I notice that I almost always agree with you when the topic of higher ed comes up!)</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242565</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242565</guid>
		<description>&quot;solum, not slocum Very different.&quot;

Right -- Slocum is the one sending his kid to a flagship public school &#039;on the cheap&#039;.  On the cheap being ~$17K/year rather than ~$40K.  BTW, if you aspire to sending your kid to a private university, don&#039;t do what we did -- don&#039;t live below your means and save, because this will lead universities to conclude (via FAFSA) that all your savings are belong to us.  If, instead, you send your kids to private K-12 schools and otherwise spend yourself to the limit of your means (say on luxury cars and a McMansion or two), you&#039;ll get back a big chunk of the money you blew in the form of a nice discount off retail tuition rates.

There were probably ways to hide the savings, but because of &lt;a href=&quot;http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2000/05/01/278924/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Krueger and Dale&lt;/a&gt;, Slocum doesn&#039;t worry much about depriving the kid.

As for Harvard and it&#039;s endowment--I&#039;d recommend that the trustees find some socially beneficial way of spending the money other than new buildings and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2007/12.13/99-finaid.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;highly subsidized tuition for the upper middle class&lt;/a&gt;.  Otherwise, well, they don&#039;t really expect the cash-hungry state legislature to leave that big old pile of money (or is that a big pile of old money) alone indefinitely, do they?  And the more success Harvard has in fund-raising and investing, the more attractive it makes itself as a target.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;solum, not slocum Very different.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Right&#8212;Slocum is the one sending his kid to a flagship public school &#8216;on the cheap&#8217;.  On the cheap being ~$17K/year rather than ~$40K.  <span class="caps">BTW</span>, if you aspire to sending your kid to a private university, don&#8217;t do what we did&#8212;don&#8217;t live below your means and save, because this will lead universities to conclude (via <span class="caps">FAFSA</span>) that all your savings are belong to us.  If, instead, you send your kids to private K-12 schools and otherwise spend yourself to the limit of your means (say on luxury cars and a McMansion or two), you&#8217;ll get back a big chunk of the money you blew in the form of a nice discount off retail tuition rates.</p>

	<p>There were probably ways to hide the savings, but because of <a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2000/05/01/278924/index.htm" rel="nofollow">Krueger and Dale</a>, Slocum doesn&#8217;t worry much about depriving the kid.</p>

	<p>As for Harvard and it&#8217;s endowment&#8212;I&#8217;d recommend that the trustees find some socially beneficial way of spending the money other than new buildings and <a href="http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2007/12.13/99-finaid.html" rel="nofollow">highly subsidized tuition for the upper middle class</a>.  Otherwise, well, they don&#8217;t really expect the cash-hungry state legislature to leave that big old pile of money (or is that a big pile of old money) alone indefinitely, do they?  And the more success Harvard has in fund-raising and investing, the more attractive it makes itself as a target.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Bellmore</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242561</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Bellmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242561</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;that is, giving the mega-rich the right to decide how the income they derive from exploiting worker’s labor should be spent;&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

LOL! And the best part is, you probably don&#039;t think there&#039;s any need for you to &lt;i&gt;prove&lt;/i&gt; that&#039;s where they derive their income, before dictating to them where it&#039;s spent.

I think the best way to approach this is to note that, whatever universities are accumulating endowments for, the purpose ultimately has to involve &lt;i&gt;spending money&lt;/i&gt;. The endowment isn&#039;t just a Scrooge McDuck money pool for the trustees to swim in. It&#039;s there to be spent.

So it&#039;s fair enough that at some point we as them to start &lt;i&gt;spending it&lt;/i&gt;, or take away the special tax status that&#039;s assisting them in piling the gold bars higher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;that is, giving the mega-rich the right to decide how the income they derive from exploiting worker&#8217;s labor should be spent;&#8221;</i></p>

	<p><span class="caps">LOL</span>! And the best part is, you probably don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s any need for you to <i>prove</i> that&#8217;s where they derive their income, before dictating to them where it&#8217;s spent.</p>

	<p>I think the best way to approach this is to note that, whatever universities are accumulating endowments for, the purpose ultimately has to involve <i>spending money</i>. The endowment isn&#8217;t just a Scrooge McDuck money pool for the trustees to swim in. It&#8217;s there to be spent.</p>

	<p>So it&#8217;s fair enough that at some point we as them to start <i>spending it</i>, or take away the special tax status that&#8217;s assisting them in piling the gold bars higher.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242550</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242550</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the quality and value of “the particular good that Solum suggests research universities produce” is directly decided by the faculties of research universities themselves.&lt;/i&gt;

You misunderstand. The quality is judged by (generally) anonymous referees from competing universities. You are not so much judged by your peers than by your competitors, and they have a vested interest in finding your work flawed, not correct. This does not mean the system is perfect, but the principle is very good and in no way comparable of a corporation devising its own accounting techniques (if that is the analogy you had in mind).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>the quality and value of &#8220;the particular good that Solum suggests research universities produce&#8221; is directly decided by the faculties of research universities themselves.</i></p>

	<p>You misunderstand. The quality is judged by (generally) anonymous referees from competing universities. You are not so much judged by your peers than by your competitors, and they have a vested interest in finding your work flawed, not correct. This does not mean the system is perfect, but the principle is very good and in no way comparable of a corporation devising its own accounting techniques (if that is the analogy you had in mind).</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242537</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242537</guid>
		<description>The problem, to my mind, is that the quality and value of &quot;the particular good that Solum suggests research universities produce&quot; is directly decided by the faculties of research universities themselves.  Needless to say, this is a very poor incentive structure.  Indeed, when it gets created in corporate boards of directors, it&#039;s widely recognized (by Crooked Timber readers and bloggers, at least) as a recipe for disaster.

There are in fact many ways in which this kind of self-policing can go wrong.  Conservatives argue most frequently about capture by political partisans, since that is the problem they&#039;re most concerned about.  But non-political problems such as corruption, mismanagement, inefficiency and cronyism are similarly damaging--and, I suspect, far more rampant than most academics care to admit.  After all, when an organization has the largely unregulated power to manage an enormous endowment pretty much as it sees fit, within very broad limits encompassing every imaginable &quot;legitimate academic purpose&quot;, one shouldn&#039;t be surprised if its decisions aren&#039;t always motivated solely by a commitment to intellectual and academic excellence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The problem, to my mind, is that the quality and value of &#8220;the particular good that Solum suggests research universities produce&#8221; is directly decided by the faculties of research universities themselves.  Needless to say, this is a very poor incentive structure.  Indeed, when it gets created in corporate boards of directors, it&#8217;s widely recognized (by Crooked Timber readers and bloggers, at least) as a recipe for disaster.</p>

	<p>There are in fact many ways in which this kind of self-policing can go wrong.  Conservatives argue most frequently about capture by political partisans, since that is the problem they&#8217;re most concerned about.  But non-political problems such as corruption, mismanagement, inefficiency and cronyism are similarly damaging&#8212;and, I suspect, far more rampant than most academics care to admit.  After all, when an organization has the largely unregulated power to manage an enormous endowment pretty much as it sees fit, within very broad limits encompassing every imaginable &#8220;legitimate academic purpose&#8221;, one shouldn&#8217;t be surprised if its decisions aren&#8217;t always motivated solely by a commitment to intellectual and academic excellence.</p>
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		<title>By: gr</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242529</link>
		<dc:creator>gr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242529</guid>
		<description>&quot;Creating stable institutions that that invest in the creation of knowledge and make decisions on the basis of academic values and are not responsive to the steering mechanisms of the market or the system of electoral politics is, I would argue, a very great social good.&quot;

Let&#039;s assume this is true. Still raises the question whether endowments are the only way to create such institutions. It seems to me the answer is pretty clearly &#039;no&#039;. After all, many countries that don&#039;t have private universities do have institutions of higher education that seem to match Solum&#039;s description.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Creating stable institutions that that invest in the creation of knowledge and make decisions on the basis of academic values and are not responsive to the steering mechanisms of the market or the system of electoral politics is, I would argue, a very great social good.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Let&#8217;s assume this is true. Still raises the question whether endowments are the only way to create such institutions. It seems to me the answer is pretty clearly &#8216;no&#8217;. After all, many countries that don&#8217;t have private universities do have institutions of higher education that seem to match Solum&#8217;s description.</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242526</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242526</guid>
		<description>What christian h. said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What christian h. said.</p>
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		<title>By: georgiana</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242497</link>
		<dc:creator>georgiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242497</guid>
		<description>Another related issue is the ridiculous sums most elite universities now charge for tuition, a chunk of which is paid through subsidized student loans. So not only are they sitting on endowments fostered by a tax-favored situation, their current income also heavily relies on government subsidies. One possibility (even though as others point out, the endowment is probably not for education) is requiring private universities to self-fund their student loans or provide scholarships to some level based on their endowment before they can receive monies from gov&#039;t backed loans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another related issue is the ridiculous sums most elite universities now charge for tuition, a chunk of which is paid through subsidized student loans. So not only are they sitting on endowments fostered by a tax-favored situation, their current income also heavily relies on government subsidies. One possibility (even though as others point out, the endowment is probably not for education) is requiring private universities to self-fund their student loans or provide scholarships to some level based on their endowment before they can receive monies from gov&#8217;t backed loans.</p>
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		<title>By: christian h.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242478</link>
		<dc:creator>christian h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242478</guid>
		<description>Private university endowments are (a) part of a much larger problem: namely that our tax system encourages large-scale charity, that is, giving the mega-rich the right to decide how the income they derive from exploiting worker&#039;s labor should be spent; and (b), a huge problem with the endowments is that they encourage the transformation of universities into profit centers, as the &quot;success&quot; of them is measured in... contributions. 

These reasons alone convince me that the endowments existing now should be expropriated into one public fund that can then be used to support research and higher education according to democratic control; and all future contributions should be taxed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Private university endowments are (a) part of a much larger problem: namely that our tax system encourages large-scale charity, that is, giving the mega-rich the right to decide how the income they derive from exploiting worker&#8217;s labor should be spent; and (b), a huge problem with the endowments is that they encourage the transformation of universities into profit centers, as the &#8220;success&#8221; of them is measured in&#8230; contributions.</p>

	<p>These reasons alone convince me that the endowments existing now should be expropriated into one public fund that can then be used to support research and higher education according to democratic control; and all future contributions should be taxed.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/05/private-university-endowments/comment-page-1/#comment-242477</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6963#comment-242477</guid>
		<description>From an international perspective, it&#039;s worth noting that many (most?) countries don&#039;t have strong private higher ed. traditions like the US does. It may be a fairly fragile custom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>From an international perspective, it&#8217;s worth noting that many (most?) countries don&#8217;t have strong private higher ed. traditions like the US does. It may be a fairly fragile custom.</p>
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