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	<title>Comments on: CV for the academic job market</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-243475</link>
		<dc:creator>eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-243475</guid>
		<description>Paul, no, you wouldn&#039;t want to direct somebody to a Web site for core information. I suspect most people, while going through applications, are amidst a pile of paper and the last thing they want to do is drop the flow of things to check out something online. 

That said, I suggest that people start removing things from their CVs as they advance in their careers. As you noted, Paul, information on courses taken seems superfluous after a point unless there&#039;s something in particular that&#039;s meant to signal (e.g., perhaps interdisciplinary training?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Paul, no, you wouldn&#8217;t want to direct somebody to a Web site for core information. I suspect most people, while going through applications, are amidst a pile of paper and the last thing they want to do is drop the flow of things to check out something online.</p>

	<p>That said, I suggest that people start removing things from their CVs as they advance in their careers. As you noted, Paul, information on courses taken seems superfluous after a point unless there&#8217;s something in particular that&#8217;s meant to signal (e.g., perhaps interdisciplinary training?).</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-243465</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-243465</guid>
		<description>Many of the CVs I see (particularly those of post-doc applicants) are extremely long, maybe 8-10 pages, with lists of unpublished reports and courses taken years ago. From what I&#039;ve seen, European CVs seem to be shorter than those from America, Asia, or Africa. 

I&#039;ve always been a fan of the short CV, but I&#039;m interested in the view of commenter #1 (&quot;include everything&quot;) because I don&#039;t see how large amounts of detail will help a CV compete for attention with potentially hundreds of others. You probably have less than a minute to make an impression. Is this view widespread? If so, I&#039;m never going to get a job with my three page CV.

The other thread on academic blogs leads me to muse that maybe CVs should become even shorter and just direct you to a website?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Many of the CVs I see (particularly those of post-doc applicants) are extremely long, maybe 8-10 pages, with lists of unpublished reports and courses taken years ago. From what I&#8217;ve seen, European CVs seem to be shorter than those from America, Asia, or Africa.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve always been a fan of the short CV, but I&#8217;m interested in the view of commenter #1 (&#8220;include everything&#8221;) because I don&#8217;t see how large amounts of detail will help a CV compete for attention with potentially hundreds of others. You probably have less than a minute to make an impression. Is this view widespread? If so, I&#8217;m never going to get a job with my three page CV.</p>

	<p>The other thread on academic blogs leads me to muse that maybe CVs should become even shorter and just direct you to a website?</p>
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		<title>By: CR</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242995</link>
		<dc:creator>CR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242995</guid>
		<description>This is a bit sneaky, but my thinking on listing the journal where a paper is under review is not to for a very simple reason. Between submitting the job application and meeting a hiring committee, the paper may have been rejected by that journal, which is a very, very sad thing to spend interview time discussing. (I.e. it&#039;d be an obvious question for the committee to ask: &quot;So, how&#039;s that paper going at PMLA?&quot;) Leaving it blank leaves you room to quickly resubmit a rejected paper, thus leaving it more or less constantly under review unless accepted. 

Sneaky, I know. But seriously, one doesn&#039;t want to talk lots about paper rejections at a job interview. And when you&#039;re starting out, and aiming for top journal placement, you&#039;re bound to be rejected sometimes or lots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is a bit sneaky, but my thinking on listing the journal where a paper is under review is not to for a very simple reason. Between submitting the job application and meeting a hiring committee, the paper may have been rejected by that journal, which is a very, very sad thing to spend interview time discussing. (I.e. it&#8217;d be an obvious question for the committee to ask: &#8220;So, how&#8217;s that paper going at <span class="caps">PMLA</span>?&#8221;) Leaving it blank leaves you room to quickly resubmit a rejected paper, thus leaving it more or less constantly under review unless accepted.</p>

	<p>Sneaky, I know. But seriously, one doesn&#8217;t want to talk lots about paper rejections at a job interview. And when you&#8217;re starting out, and aiming for top journal placement, you&#8217;re bound to be rejected sometimes or lots.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242992</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242992</guid>
		<description>In economics, the likelihood of a first-round acceptance (unless the author is *very* well-established) is close to zero. There&#039;s about a 10 per cent chance of R&amp;R, but conditional on that, about a 90 per cent chance of ultimate acceptance. So, quoting an R&amp;R at a good journal is worthwhile, in the letter if not in the CV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In economics, the likelihood of a first-round acceptance (unless the author is <strong>very</strong> well-established) is close to zero. There&#8217;s about a 10 per cent chance of R&#038;R, but conditional on that, about a 90 per cent chance of ultimate acceptance. So, quoting an R&#038;R at a good journal is worthwhile, in the letter if not in the CV.</p>
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		<title>By: BillCinSD</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242991</link>
		<dc:creator>BillCinSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242991</guid>
		<description>When i applied for my current job at Central US Tech, I had to apply online, with 5 areas to input material -- 1. qualifications ie degrees and previous positions, 2. Transcripts, 3. Publications and presentations, 4. Teaching and Research plans, 5. Supplemental material.  I think I used 5 for one page of my transcripts that was too large to be included with the rest of my transcripts.

I wasn&#039;t wild about how it was executed, but it did move my prep time from working on my packet to figuring out how to get all the material input correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When i applied for my current job at Central <span class="caps">US </span>Tech, I had to apply online, with 5 areas to input material&#8212;1. qualifications ie degrees and previous positions, 2. Transcripts, 3. Publications and presentations, 4. Teaching and Research plans, 5. Supplemental material.  I think I used 5 for one page of my transcripts that was too large to be included with the rest of my transcripts.</p>

	<p>I wasn&#8217;t wild about how it was executed, but it did move my prep time from working on my packet to figuring out how to get all the material input correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hurka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242942</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hurka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242942</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jacob about R &amp; R&#039;s -- they mean something, especially from top journals.

Papers under review or still being revised can go in a Writing in Progress section -- shows the variety of your interests without suggesting that things are complete but not sent to journals.

And, following on Eszter&#039;s point about order, I think it even helps to put the most important things on a part of the page where they&#039;re most likely to be seen. E.g. let&#039;s say you won a prestigious prize. Put a section on Prizes or Awards at the top of a page, and put the prestigious one at the top of the list. Search committee members are skimming quickly -- don&#039;t give them a chance to miss a key bit of information by burying it in the middle of a section or at the bottom of a page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree with Jacob about R &#038; R&#8217;s&#8212;they mean something, especially from top journals.</p>

	<p>Papers under review or still being revised can go in a Writing in Progress section&#8212;shows the variety of your interests without suggesting that things are complete but not sent to journals.</p>

	<p>And, following on Eszter&#8217;s point about order, I think it even helps to put the most important things on a part of the page where they&#8217;re most likely to be seen. E.g. let&#8217;s say you won a prestigious prize. Put a section on Prizes or Awards at the top of a page, and put the prestigious one at the top of the list. Search committee members are skimming quickly&#8212;don&#8217;t give them a chance to miss a key bit of information by burying it in the middle of a section or at the bottom of a page.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242930</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242930</guid>
		<description>onymous: yes, in many disciplines the gold standard remains double-blind review, with both authors and referees unknown to each other.  Electronic preprints whittle away at that a bit-- but even though I keep track of SSRN postings in my field, I&#039;ve never received a manuscript to referee that I&#039;d previously seen in that fashion (though I have received, e.g., manuscripts I&#039;d seen presented at conferences).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>onymous: yes, in many disciplines the gold standard remains double-blind review, with both authors and referees unknown to each other.  Electronic preprints whittle away at that a bit&#8212;but even though I keep track of <span class="caps">SSRN</span> postings in my field, I&#8217;ve never received a manuscript to referee that I&#8217;d previously seen in that fashion (though I have received, e.g., manuscripts I&#8217;d seen presented at conferences).</p>
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		<title>By: christian h.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242925</link>
		<dc:creator>christian h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242925</guid>
		<description>In mathematics, absolutely include preprints that haven&#039;t been submitted and papers under review (but, as has been said, label clearly).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In mathematics, absolutely include preprints that haven&#8217;t been submitted and papers under review (but, as has been said, label clearly).</p>
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		<title>By: onymous</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242924</link>
		<dc:creator>onymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242924</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand the point about blind review. Are you saying it isn&#039;t just the referees whose identities are unknown to the authors, but also the authors who are unknown to the referees? If so it seems completely bizarre from my point of view over in a field where everyone reads preprints, not journals, and referees are likely to have already seen any paper they receive posted online weeks before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t understand the point about blind review. Are you saying it isn&#8217;t just the referees whose identities are unknown to the authors, but also the authors who are unknown to the referees? If so it seems completely bizarre from my point of view over in a field where everyone reads preprints, not journals, and referees are likely to have already seen any paper they receive posted online weeks before.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242923</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242923</guid>
		<description>RM, I think the cover letter can matter a lot, but that wasn&#039;t the focus of my post.  (You should feel free to discuss it, regardless, of course.:)  I think it is very important to cater it to the school and department. I have lots of other thoughts on that, but again, somewhat separate from the CV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>RM, I think the cover letter can matter a lot, but that wasn&#8217;t the focus of my post.  (You should feel free to discuss it, regardless, of course.:)  I think it is very important to cater it to the school and department. I have lots of other thoughts on that, but again, somewhat separate from the CV.</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242922</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242922</guid>
		<description>In English, as perhaps in no other field, the cover letter matters. It should be clear, fluent, and reasonably free of jargon, and it should not misspell the university&#039;s name, and it should be individualized to the job. For a teaching-heavy position, avoid saying much about your dissertation research. If you can manage to make it sparkling and pleasurable to read, good, but don&#039;t sweat it. Mention all your accomplishments and awards, but do so casually, as if they just happen to have some relevance to your passion for teaching East Impovershed State Comprehensive University&#039;s unique student body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In English, as perhaps in no other field, the cover letter matters. It should be clear, fluent, and reasonably free of jargon, and it should not misspell the university&#8217;s name, and it should be individualized to the job. For a teaching-heavy position, avoid saying much about your dissertation research. If you can manage to make it sparkling and pleasurable to read, good, but don&#8217;t sweat it. Mention all your accomplishments and awards, but do so casually, as if they just happen to have some relevance to your passion for teaching East Impovershed State Comprehensive University&#8217;s unique student body.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242921</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242921</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Does it tell us anything about the value of education that academics aren’t headhunted but must apply for work?&lt;/i&gt;

In addition to what Bill Gardner said, see the &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/the-importance-of-web-sites-for-academics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;follow-up post&lt;/a&gt; I just put up. Even at junior level, people get approached. But it is still important to have information that is easy to make sense of and can be shared readily with colleagues as one makes a case for a particular candidate.

Jacob, I think that&#039;s a good point about listing the journal of an R&amp;R paper (I&#039;ll go and look whether I can tweak my post to reflect this). I certainly agree that there is considerable value to having an R&amp;R at a top journal especially. 

I would also encourage including that information in any promotion and tenure materials, but those aren&#039;t disseminated nearly as widely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Does it tell us anything about the value of education that academics aren&#8217;t headhunted but must apply for work?</i></p>

	<p>In addition to what Bill Gardner said, see the <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/the-importance-of-web-sites-for-academics/" rel="nofollow">follow-up post</a> I just put up. Even at junior level, people get approached. But it is still important to have information that is easy to make sense of and can be shared readily with colleagues as one makes a case for a particular candidate.</p>

	<p>Jacob, I think that&#8217;s a good point about listing the journal of an R&#038;R paper (I&#8217;ll go and look whether I can tweak my post to reflect this). I certainly agree that there is considerable value to having an R&#038;R at a top journal especially.</p>

	<p>I would also encourage including that information in any promotion and tenure materials, but those aren&#8217;t disseminated nearly as widely.</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242920</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242920</guid>
		<description>Having been on a bajillion hiring committees in a humanities field, I&#039;d say the CV should make it easy to find answers to any factual question. All the above advice is good, but order isn&#039;t as crucial as simple clarity. Include or don&#039;t include the articles under review, but if you include them, label them as exactly what they are. Tell us what your job title was, exactly. It should be easy to perceive a timeline. There should not be huge lists of undifferentiated information. Headings should be formatted for clarity (i.e. whitespace and consistent formatting, levels of headings differentiated if you have them).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Having been on a bajillion hiring committees in a humanities field, I&#8217;d say the CV should make it easy to find answers to any factual question. All the above advice is good, but order isn&#8217;t as crucial as simple clarity. Include or don&#8217;t include the articles under review, but if you include them, label them as exactly what they are. Tell us what your job title was, exactly. It should be easy to perceive a timeline. There should not be huge lists of undifferentiated information. Headings should be formatted for clarity (i.e. whitespace and consistent formatting, levels of headings differentiated if you have them).</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242918</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242918</guid>
		<description>At East Impovershed State Comprehensive University, all positions are advertised (isn&#039;t that a law?) and I seriously doubt there is much headhunting, unless for the big administrative positions. Networking, yes; headhunting, not below the President, I don&#039;t think.

This says nothing about the value of education, but it says something about the funding, i.e. the value as perceived by the voting public and its representatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At East Impovershed State Comprehensive University, all positions are advertised (isn&#8217;t that a law?) and I seriously doubt there is much headhunting, unless for the big administrative positions. Networking, yes; headhunting, not below the President, I don&#8217;t think.</p>

	<p>This says nothing about the value of education, but it says something about the funding, i.e. the value as perceived by the voting public and its representatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/06/09/cv-for-the-academic-job-market/comment-page-1/#comment-242916</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=6973#comment-242916</guid>
		<description>I think papers that are only under review should omit journal titles, but don&#039;t think that the same is true for R&amp;Rs.

The title of the paper alone compromises blind review if one of the referees happens to see the CV; and for everyone else there&#039;s no ethical loss and a significant informational gain to including the journal name.  An R&amp;R from a top journal is valuable; it signals some predictable likelihood of publication in that journal and a high likelihood of publication one or two tiers down, and indicates much-better-than-average-grad-student level work.  

Many readers skip cover letters entirely (really), making a dissertation abstract on the vita useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think papers that are only under review should omit journal titles, but don&#8217;t think that the same is true for R&#038;Rs.</p>

	<p>The title of the paper alone compromises blind review if one of the referees happens to see the CV; and for everyone else there&#8217;s no ethical loss and a significant informational gain to including the journal name.  An R&#038;R from a top journal is valuable; it signals some predictable likelihood of publication in that journal and a high likelihood of publication one or two tiers down, and indicates much-better-than-average-grad-student level work.</p>

	<p>Many readers skip cover letters entirely (really), making a dissertation abstract on the vita useful.</p>
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