Comments on: Kevin O’Rourke on the No vote in Ireland

By: EWI

EWI — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:08:04 +0000

The vote in Ireland surprised me as, from what I understand from some accounts in the press, there is a veritable pro-euro/EU underground movement in Ulster. Somehow I saw a solidarity factor in this and expected Eire to give the “green” light to the treaty.

Based on the references to “Ulster” and “Eire”, I ran this passage through the ol’ Brit Filter but am still no wiser as to what you’re saying, doc.

By: f.d.plessner

f.d.plessner — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:25:40 +0000

In response to Kevin O’Rourke’s comments on the Irish referendum, he might have mentioned that the Irish ‘no’ voters are extremely wise. NO ONE understands what the new treaty is about! Neither yes voters nor no voters. Why would anyone agree to a new contract if you don’t understand it? Those who voted yes are simply proof that there are morons wandering the streets of Dublin. Those who were interviewed wittered on about being ‘loyal’ to Europe. Um…what does that have to do with making an informed decision about your nation’s contractual obligations?

By: jj

jj — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:23:12 +0000

Take back your tired, your poor, your hungry, your huddled masses yearning to be free…

By: James

James — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:41:27 +0000

#17 – I’m afraid you wouldn’t get into the EU unless you first abolished the death penalty.

More poll data on the referendum the Sunday Business Post today:

“Three-quarters of those who voted No believed the treaty would make abortion more likely, change corporate tax rates and reduce Ireland’s influence in Europe.

Significant minorities of Yes voters shared these views….

…

Almost 60 per cent of those who voted No believe EU membership will benefit Ireland in the future, and almost 40 per cent of No voters believe Ireland should integrate more fully with the EU.”

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=33932-qqqx=1.asp

By: novakant

novakant — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:36:17 +0000

the Irish vote divided along class lines in a stark and disturbing fashion.

This isn’t supported by the data: a whooping 69% of voters “Still in education”, and I guess that mainly means “college students”, voted NO.

By: jj

jj — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:19:26 +0000

I don’t know if you realize it, but millions of indigent, ill-housed, unemployed and ill-educated Americans would gladly vote for admission to the EU, if only we were allowed to return to our European roots. The prospect of an adequate education, humane housing and health care, dignified employment, cultural inclusion and rapid political integration would generate a tidal wave of affirmative approbation.

On the other hand, you might also consider the historical precedent of shipping out your undesirables to the colonies.

By: W. "Mr. Helpful" Kiernan

W. "Mr. Helpful" Kiernan — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:08:28 +0000

And while those of us who ~~are more fortunate~~ were already wealthy and who eagerly hoped to get yet wealthier at the insignificant cost of the poor getting poorer might regret it, it is hardly surprising that—in accordance with Heckscher-Ohlin logic—they vote accordingly.

Fixt it for yez, Doc!

By: sillyoldtwit

sillyoldtwit — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:49:34 +0000

No sooner had the vote been counted than those who voted no were accused of being racist or stupid. Some politicians and journalist were diplomatic but that was the logic of what they were saying nonetheless ….in a climate such as this there is no point in asking why people voted no ….It is noticable that when asked why they voted no no one mentioned immigration in spite of the fact that just about everyone has an opinion on it. I realise that some will say that referendum had nothing to do with immigration but that is neither here nor there.The point is that people gave every reason under the sun (some quite odd) but no one NO ONE mentioned immigration…a bit like Basil Fawlty and “don’t mention the war”… There seems also to be a suggestion that the middle classes are more advanced in their ideas than the working class but this is a prejudice. If you examine ‘white flight’ it is always the middle class who move first but as they own and controll the media they controll any debate on the subject etc. etc. It is also the middle class who are benifiting from cheap imported labour …..
No , there is no point in asking the why of all this in such a climate…and of course it would never enter the mind of our politicians and journalists to consider the possibility that those who voted no got it right and that the yes people should reconsider their own case..

By: Tom T.

Tom T. — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:03:07 +0000

When asked to give a single reason for voting No, some 40 per cent of people replied that they didn’t understand the treaty.

I’d be curious to hear how many of the Yes voters didn’t understand the treaty, either.

By: leederick

leederick — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:29:40 +0000

74% of manual workers voted no, compared to 40% of the self-employed. It looks a big difference, but those figures are conditioned on people who voted. Once you take turnout into account 30% of manual workers voted no, and 24% of the self employed – which isn’t nearly so dramatic. I don’t think you can sell a story about the rejection being due to unskilled workers feeling under threat, when the actual proportion of them who voted no isn’t that much different to the proportion in other groups. The actual question is why self-employed workers felt that they had so much more to gain from the treaty that 36% of them were motivated to go out and vote yes, whereas only 10% of manual workers were.

By: simon

simon — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:32:35 +0000

But if you look at the age differencials they are not far behind the manual workers
18-24 at 65% People still in education 69%

By: Nordic Mousse

Nordic Mousse — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:02:57 +0000

# 11 “Peasants”

Villeinous voters?

By: ArtD0dger

ArtD0dger — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 02:35:10 +0000

So first he conflates this warmed-over fragment of the rejected EU Constitution with “globalization,” then suggests—on no evidence whatever—that it was turned down yet again because the backwards-looking hicks were afraid for their jobs. And the solution, obliquely hinted, is for an even heavier thumb on the scale on behalf of those “left behind” in the next version.

All for the “benefits of open international markets,” I suppose.

By: astrongmaybe

astrongmaybe — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:42:20 +0000

Shorter Toby@1 = in the glorious march of EU integration, we may hear the hoofbeats of History!! Quibble as ye may, peasants, the future is ours!

By: Nur al-Cubicle

Nur al-Cubicle — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:01:42 +0000

Saw Henry over at Bloggingheads.TV in his discussion with Daniel Drezner. Henry was brilliant.