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	<title>Comments on: Derbyshire on Bermondsey 1983</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jo Wolff</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-245320</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Wolff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-245320</guid>
		<description>Jonathan Derbyshire&#039;s piece is excellent. I was there, and remember John O&#039;Grady in his horse and cart. Until a few days before the election it seemed inconceivable that Hughes could win, but a day or two before the election the Lib Dems produced a leaflet saying that Simon Hughes was now the favourite to win, according to the bookies. I am sure it persuaded many that a vote for Lib Dem was a better way of stopping Tatchell than O&#039;Grady. Consequently I am one of the fewer than 8,000 people who voted for Tatchell in 1983.

I had, by the way, applied to join the Southwark and Bermondsey Labour Party in about 1980. Someone came round to check me out, and then I didn&#039;t hear anything more from them. Still waiting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jonathan Derbyshire&#8217;s piece is excellent. I was there, and remember John O&#8217;Grady in his horse and cart. Until a few days before the election it seemed inconceivable that Hughes could win, but a day or two before the election the Lib Dems produced a leaflet saying that Simon Hughes was now the favourite to win, according to the bookies. I am sure it persuaded many that a vote for Lib Dem was a better way of stopping Tatchell than O&#8217;Grady. Consequently I am one of the fewer than 8,000 people who voted for Tatchell in 1983.</p>

	<p>I had, by the way, applied to join the Southwark and Bermondsey Labour Party in about 1980. Someone came round to check me out, and then I didn&#8217;t hear anything more from them. Still waiting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Edwards</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-245240</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-245240</guid>
		<description>A useful reminder of the viciousness directed at the Bennite Left during the years when they looked in the ascendency. I am sure Tatchell is right that the Bermondsey by election was a turning point.

Nobody had heard of Tatchell until an SDP MP caled James Wellbeloved asked the question to Michael Foot in the House of Commons. He was not even a Labour MP and it was extraordinary that Foot fell into the trap of denouncing Tatchell and then before the by election being forced to backtrack and endorse him. This reinforced Foot&#039;s reputation for weakness as labour leader and virtually doomed Labour&#039;s chances.
I also remember Tatchell being interviewed on the BBC by the famous Robin Day and being treated with such disrespect. When Tatchell explained that if elected he intended to live on a skilled worker&#039;s wage and give away the rest of his MPs salary Robin Day could only sneer &quot;you realise you&#039;ll be taxed on that&quot;. Tachell was regarded as representing a dangerous radicalism with his support for &quot;extra parliamentary action&quot; even though he was only talking about protests against the mass unemployment of the time like the People&#039;s March for Jobs.
A friend of mine went to a Labour Party meeting in Bermondsey at which Tatchell was speaking to be asked by Labour members of the old guard &quot;How can we vote for that animal? 
I also recall the effect of the anti-Tatchell campaign on the average working class voter. I was on a bus going past the old Walworth Road HQ of the Labour Party on the day of the byelection. Seeing the vote labour banner one elderly lady said to another &quot;I&#039;m not voting for a gay lib draft dodger!&quot; 
The catastrophic Labour defeat also emboldened the right. Margaret Thatcher is said to have concluded that the Left could not win.
I have always admired Peter Tatchell for his courage and dignity at the time and his refusal to give in to understandable bitterness at his treatment and particularly the way he refused to join in the bashing of Simon Hughes following his outing as bisexual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A useful reminder of the viciousness directed at the Bennite Left during the years when they looked in the ascendency. I am sure Tatchell is right that the Bermondsey by election was a turning point.</p>

	<p>Nobody had heard of Tatchell until an <span class="caps">SDP MP</span> caled James Wellbeloved asked the question to Michael Foot in the House of Commons. He was not even a Labour MP and it was extraordinary that Foot fell into the trap of denouncing Tatchell and then before the by election being forced to backtrack and endorse him. This reinforced Foot&#8217;s reputation for weakness as labour leader and virtually doomed Labour&#8217;s chances.<br />
I also remember Tatchell being interviewed on the <span class="caps">BBC</span> by the famous Robin Day and being treated with such disrespect. When Tatchell explained that if elected he intended to live on a skilled worker&#8217;s wage and give away the rest of his MPs salary Robin Day could only sneer &#8220;you realise you&#8217;ll be taxed on that&#8221;. Tachell was regarded as representing a dangerous radicalism with his support for &#8220;extra parliamentary action&#8221; even though he was only talking about protests against the mass unemployment of the time like the People&#8217;s March for Jobs.<br />
A friend of mine went to a Labour Party meeting in Bermondsey at which Tatchell was speaking to be asked by Labour members of the old guard &#8220;How can we vote for that animal?<br />
I also recall the effect of the anti-Tatchell campaign on the average working class voter. I was on a bus going past the old Walworth Road HQ of the Labour Party on the day of the byelection. Seeing the vote labour banner one elderly lady said to another &#8220;I&#8217;m not voting for a gay lib draft dodger!&#8221;<br />
The catastrophic Labour defeat also emboldened the right. Margaret Thatcher is said to have concluded that the Left could not win.<br />
I have always admired Peter Tatchell for his courage and dignity at the time and his refusal to give in to understandable bitterness at his treatment and particularly the way he refused to join in the bashing of Simon Hughes following his outing as bisexual.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-245121</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-245121</guid>
		<description>_The shift far to the right was not led by the middle class far left,but by middle class moderates and right-wingers (Charles Clark, Otto Clark’s son,or goodness sake) aidedand abetted by the right of the union movement who should have known better._

Well true, up to a point. But I remember that people like Patricia Hewitt played a particularly vicious role in briefing against the left between the Bermondsey and Southwark by-elections (and subsequently). She had, of course, previously headed the NCCL and been a prominent supporter of Tony Benn. So I guess someone of her ilk would fit the bill (on some people&#039;s views of what counts as &quot;far left&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>The shift far to the right was not led by the middle class far left,but by middle class moderates and right-wingers (Charles Clark, Otto Clark&#8217;s son,or goodness sake) aidedand abetted by the right of the union movement who should have known better.</em></p>

	<p>Well true, up to a point. But I remember that people like Patricia Hewitt played a particularly vicious role in briefing against the left between the Bermondsey and Southwark by-elections (and subsequently). She had, of course, previously headed the <span class="caps">NCCL</span> and been a prominent supporter of Tony Benn. So I guess someone of her ilk would fit the bill (on some people&#8217;s views of what counts as &#8220;far left&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sock Puppet of the Great Satan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-245060</link>
		<dc:creator>Sock Puppet of the Great Satan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-245060</guid>
		<description>That is a good column by Derbyshire. Didn&#039;t know that Simon Hughes had came out, although having met him once it was pretty frickin&#039; obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That is a good column by Derbyshire. Didn&#8217;t know that Simon Hughes had came out, although having met him once it was pretty frickin&#8217; obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-245023</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-245023</guid>
		<description>Were you there johnf? Bermondsey was one of many rotten boroughs, in which men, some of working class origins, ran constituency parties as feifdoms, ensuring extremely limited participation. The shift far to the right was not led by the middle class far left,but by middle class moderates and right-wingers (Charles Clark, Otto Clark&#039;s son,or goodness sake) aidedand abetted by the right of the union movement who should have known better.

And in the Tatchell case. You think that there was anything excusable in the homophobia an xenophobia that Tatchell&#039;s opponents used? And spreading the word, as they did, that it was in fact the LibDems that were putting out those leaflets.

Labour post-1979 has been a series of tragedes, and there is a lot of blame to be shared around. In the specific case of Bermondsey, Derbyshire&#039;s piece gets things about right,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Were you there johnf? Bermondsey was one of many rotten boroughs, in which men, some of working class origins, ran constituency parties as feifdoms, ensuring extremely limited participation. The shift far to the right was not led by the middle class far left,but by middle class moderates and right-wingers (Charles Clark, Otto Clark&#8217;s son,or goodness sake) aidedand abetted by the right of the union movement who should have known better.</p>

	<p>And in the Tatchell case. You think that there was anything excusable in the homophobia an xenophobia that Tatchell&#8217;s opponents used? And spreading the word, as they did, that it was in fact the LibDems that were putting out those leaflets.</p>

	<p>Labour post-1979 has been a series of tragedes, and there is a lot of blame to be shared around. In the specific case of Bermondsey, Derbyshire&#8217;s piece gets things about right,</p>
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		<title>By: johnf</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-244996</link>
		<dc:creator>johnf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-244996</guid>
		<description>An extremely one-sided article.

It in no way reveals the brutality  with which the upper middle class post 68 far left attacked and destroyed the old working class post 45 Labour Party, and as soon as it had seized power, steered Nu Labor so violently rightwards that it ended up far to the right of anything the old working class Labour Party would have endured or permitted.

It is a story of deep shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>An extremely one-sided article.</p>

	<p>It in no way reveals the brutality  with which the upper middle class post 68 far left attacked and destroyed the old working class post 45 Labour Party, and as soon as it had seized power, steered Nu Labor so violently rightwards that it ended up far to the right of anything the old working class Labour Party would have endured or permitted.</p>

	<p>It is a story of deep shame.</p>
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		<title>By: P O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/03/derbyshire-on-bermondsey-1983/comment-page-1/#comment-244970</link>
		<dc:creator>P O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7034#comment-244970</guid>
		<description>Very interesting.  I&#039;m used to thinking of the Lib/LibDems as having a ruthless by-election machine but clearly they didn&#039;t really need one in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Very interesting.  I&#8217;m used to thinking of the Lib/LibDems as having a ruthless by-election machine but clearly they didn&#8217;t really need one in this case.</p>
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