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	<title>Comments on: Cartoonery</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: ROYT</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246485</link>
		<dc:creator>ROYT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246485</guid>
		<description>85.  Yeah, the world is really begging for more &#039;relevant&#039; American intervention right now, that&#039;s why your examples are so salient.  And even for &#039;their time&#039; your examples don&#039;t come close to constituting the most significant of US &#039;relevancy&#039; to the world.  You are indeed irrelevant, vx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>85.  Yeah, the world is really begging for more &#8216;relevant&#8217; American intervention right now, that&#8217;s why your examples are so salient.  And even for &#8216;their time&#8217; your examples don&#8217;t come close to constituting the most significant of <span class="caps">US </span>&#8216;relevancy&#8217; to the world.  You are indeed irrelevant, vx.</p>
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		<title>By: virgil xenophon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246444</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246444</guid>
		<description>I wonder if that part of the as-of-yet unconquered
world in WWII, the part that _was_ under the tyrant&#039;s boot-heels, or those S.Koreans still alive after the depredations of NOKOR prayed for an &quot;irrelevant&quot; America, sg? Think the now free people of Eastern Europe wish the US had been irrelevant in resisting the iron curtain of Stalin&#039;s (and his successors)warm embrace? You are indeed an ass, sg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wonder if that part of the as-of-yet unconquered<br />
world in <span class="caps">WWII</span>, the part that <em>was</em> under the tyrant&#8217;s boot-heels, or those S.Koreans still alive after the depredations of <span class="caps">NOKOR</span> prayed for an &#8220;irrelevant&#8221; America, sg? Think the now free people of Eastern Europe wish the US had been irrelevant in resisting the iron curtain of Stalin&#8217;s (and his successors)warm embrace? You are indeed an ass, sg.</p>
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		<title>By: SG</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246379</link>
		<dc:creator>SG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246379</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s okay righteous bubba, the longer the US runs Bush-style republican economic &quot;policy&quot; for, the sooner the rest of the world won&#039;t have to endure having a US president of any political persuasion (because a bankrupt US will become an irrelevant US).

Every cloud has a silver lining!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s okay righteous bubba, the longer the US runs Bush-style republican economic &#8220;policy&#8221; for, the sooner the rest of the world won&#8217;t have to endure having a US president of any political persuasion (because a bankrupt US will become an irrelevant US).</p>

	<p>Every cloud has a silver lining!</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246319</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246319</guid>
		<description>I need to be corrected from my AM radio indoctrination.

What percent WASP is Obama?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I need to be corrected from my AM radio indoctrination.</p>

	<p>What percent <span class="caps">WASP</span> is Obama?</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246302</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246302</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;then, frankly, the USA deserves to have John McCain as its next president…&lt;/i&gt;

The rest of the world, however, does not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>then, frankly, the <span class="caps">USA</span> deserves to have John McCain as its next president&#8230;</i></p>

	<p>The rest of the world, however, does not.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246299</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246299</guid>
		<description>If the USA ends up with John McCain as its next president because potential Democrat voters are really so stupid and gullible as to believe that Obama is secretly an Islamist terrorist, then, frankly, the USA deserves to have John McCain as its next president...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If the <span class="caps">USA</span> ends up with John McCain as its next president because potential Democrat voters are really so stupid and gullible as to believe that Obama is secretly an Islamist terrorist, then, frankly, the <span class="caps">USA</span> deserves to have John McCain as its next president&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246284</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246284</guid>
		<description>But this is not exactly the case of mocking some ridiculous spin by simply repeating it, not &quot;ketchup is a vegetable - hah-hah-hah&quot; sort of thing. What they reproduce here, without a comment, is indeed a ridiculous spin, but it&#039;s also the exact content of organized and coordinated &lt;i&gt;slander&lt;/i&gt;. 

Suppose a group of people at your workplace start spreading rumors that Dan K is beating his wife; these rumors start affecting your life, your career - this is something you, obviously, wish would just go away - and then the university newspaper publishes this sort of cartoon - how funny would it be to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But this is not exactly the case of mocking some ridiculous spin by simply repeating it, not &#8220;ketchup is a vegetable &#8211; hah-hah-hah&#8221; sort of thing. What they reproduce here, without a comment, is indeed a ridiculous spin, but it&#8217;s also the exact content of organized and coordinated <i>slander</i>.</p>

	<p>Suppose a group of people at your workplace start spreading rumors that Dan K is beating his wife; these rumors start affecting your life, your career &#8211; this is something you, obviously, wish would just go away &#8211; and then the university newspaper publishes this sort of cartoon &#8211; how funny would it be to you?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kervick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246272</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kervick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246272</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...the cover isn’t satire, it simply is the way the conservative movement sees Obama.&lt;/i&gt;

These aren&#039;t incompatible notions.  Since the way the Glenn Beck and Fox News faction of the conservative movement sees Obama is self-evidently ridiculous to the typical New Yorker reader, it is sufficient for the New Yorker merely to depict that right-wing perception in order to satirize it and draw a chuckle from those readers.  That&#039;s what distinguishes subtle and discerning satire from broad and obvious satire.  New Yorker readers don&#039;t need a crude signpost that says &quot;By the way, this depiction is something we actually &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; agree with and is intended to be amusing.&quot;  They get it.

I can&#039;t accept the notion that the New Yorker has an overriding, lowest common denominator obligation not to put dangerous ideas into the minds of those few hypothetical boobs who might walk past the newsstand and get the wrong idea, and must therefore produce covers that are suitable for swimming in the egregiously dumbed-down pool of American politics without any hope of misinterpretation.

The humorist Albert Brooks used to make short films for Saturday Night Live.  Some of these were marked by a form of satire that traveled very close to the real world.  I recall one film that consisted of supposed &quot;previews&quot; of the new NBC fall television lineup.  They were hilarious.  But they were so accurately constructed that it is possible that someone who saw one of those previews outside the context of a satirical comedy show like SNL might have mistaken them for actual previews of actual shows.  Brooks evidently thought that the typical content of prime time network television in the late 1970&#039;s and early 80&#039;s, and its typical manner of advertising that content, were in themselves so ridiculous that one hardly had to diverge at all from the plane of reality to get to humor.  And he was right.  Mere imitation was enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8230;the cover isn&#8217;t satire, it simply is the way the conservative movement sees Obama.</i></p>

	<p>These aren&#8217;t incompatible notions.  Since the way the Glenn Beck and Fox News faction of the conservative movement sees Obama is self-evidently ridiculous to the typical New Yorker reader, it is sufficient for the New Yorker merely to depict that right-wing perception in order to satirize it and draw a chuckle from those readers.  That&#8217;s what distinguishes subtle and discerning satire from broad and obvious satire.  New Yorker readers don&#8217;t need a crude signpost that says &#8220;By the way, this depiction is something we actually <i>don&#8217;t</i> agree with and is intended to be amusing.&#8221;  They get it.</p>

	<p>I can&#8217;t accept the notion that the New Yorker has an overriding, lowest common denominator obligation not to put dangerous ideas into the minds of those few hypothetical boobs who might walk past the newsstand and get the wrong idea, and must therefore produce covers that are suitable for swimming in the egregiously dumbed-down pool of American politics without any hope of misinterpretation.</p>

	<p>The humorist Albert Brooks used to make short films for Saturday Night Live.  Some of these were marked by a form of satire that traveled very close to the real world.  I recall one film that consisted of supposed &#8220;previews&#8221; of the new <span class="caps">NBC</span> fall television lineup.  They were hilarious.  But they were so accurately constructed that it is possible that someone who saw one of those previews outside the context of a satirical comedy show like <span class="caps">SNL</span> might have mistaken them for actual previews of actual shows.  Brooks evidently thought that the typical content of prime time network television in the late 1970&#8217;s and early 80&#8217;s, and its typical manner of advertising that content, were in themselves so ridiculous that one hardly had to diverge at all from the plane of reality to get to humor.  And he was right.  Mere imitation was enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Hume's Ghost</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246269</link>
		<dc:creator>Hume's Ghost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246269</guid>
		<description>The bar for what constitutes satire is now much higher than it would be in a society with a normal range of political discourse. In an America where you can turn to one of the major networks any given night and see Sean Hannity saying that Obama is Louis Farrakhan type anti-Semite and Glenn Beck asking if Obama is the anti-Christ or chatting with Jonah Golberg about Obama and every Democrat since Woodrow Wilson being fascists the cover isn&#039;t satire, it simply is the way the conservative movement sees Obama. Anyone with the stomach to listen to AM radio for any stretch of time would know that ... G Gordon Liddy has already said that this cover gets it right about Obama.

Yes, the image should be self-evidently absurd. But the mainstream media has granted legitimacy to self-evidently absurd beliefs, as evidenced by the Jonah Goldbergs and William Kristols that retain employment despite their intellectual bankruptcy and by Rush Limbaugh having fans like Brian Williams (who also thinks Peggy Noonan should get a Pulitzer for her Obama bashing columns.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The bar for what constitutes satire is now much higher than it would be in a society with a normal range of political discourse. In an America where you can turn to one of the major networks any given night and see Sean Hannity saying that Obama is Louis Farrakhan type anti-Semite and Glenn Beck asking if Obama is the anti-Christ or chatting with Jonah Golberg about Obama and every Democrat since Woodrow Wilson being fascists the cover isn&#8217;t satire, it simply is the way the conservative movement sees Obama. Anyone with the stomach to listen to AM radio for any stretch of time would know that &#8230; G Gordon Liddy has already said that this cover gets it right about Obama.</p>

	<p>Yes, the image should be self-evidently absurd. But the mainstream media has granted legitimacy to self-evidently absurd beliefs, as evidenced by the Jonah Goldbergs and William Kristols that retain employment despite their intellectual bankruptcy and by Rush Limbaugh having fans like Brian Williams (who also thinks Peggy Noonan should get a Pulitzer for her Obama bashing columns.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kervick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246255</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kervick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246255</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It would be impossible to have a cover with the same sort of slurs against McCain—McCain as senile McCain as a war monger, etc. Why? Because it would seem cruel, rather than funny.&lt;/i&gt;

No, it&#039;s because in the precincts of the left in 2008 there just happen not to be any paranoid rumors about the McCains that are equivalent in their offensiveness and ridiculous to the rumors about the Obamas that are to be found on the right.  So there are no equally silly attitudes to lampoon.

If, on the other hand, there were widespread rumors and misconceptions of the left that John McCain was a clandestine member of the KKK, and that Cindy McCain was a youthful American Nazi Party agitator, and if cable news station like MS-NBC had devoted extended segments to wondering out loud about whether McCain&#039;s pecks of Cindy on the cheek were in fact coded messages of fascist solidarity, then in fact I suspect we &lt;i&gt;would&lt;/i&gt; see similar cartoons mocking those left-wing idiocies.  We might see a cartoon of McCain in KKK robes planting a kiss on the cheek of Cindy in an SS uniform, with a swastika hanging on the wall.

Of course, since the New Yorker tilts gently leftward and is a place where one would be more likely to find mockery of the right, then we would be more likely to see those hypothetical alternative cartoons in right-leaning magazines, since that is where you would expect to find mockery of the left.

But, fortunately, there are not any significant numbers of Democrats running around expressing these kinds of paranoid anxieties about the Secret Life of the McCains.  So Republicans don&#039;t have the opportunity to engage in the same kind of ribbing of the left that the New Yorker was giving to the right.

New Yorker covers are never supposed to be laugh out loud funny - unlike some of the cartoons inside the magazine.  Where they aim for humor at all, they aim only to be mildly amusing.  And this cover I found mildly amusing, before all the silly ruckus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It would be impossible to have a cover with the same sort of slurs against McCain&#8212;McCain as senile McCain as a war monger, etc. Why? Because it would seem cruel, rather than funny.</i></p>

	<p>No, it&#8217;s because in the precincts of the left in 2008 there just happen not to be any paranoid rumors about the McCains that are equivalent in their offensiveness and ridiculous to the rumors about the Obamas that are to be found on the right.  So there are no equally silly attitudes to lampoon.</p>

	<p>If, on the other hand, there were widespread rumors and misconceptions of the left that John McCain was a clandestine member of the <span class="caps">KKK</span>, and that Cindy McCain was a youthful American Nazi Party agitator, and if cable news station like MS-NBC had devoted extended segments to wondering out loud about whether McCain&#8217;s pecks of Cindy on the cheek were in fact coded messages of fascist solidarity, then in fact I suspect we <i>would</i> see similar cartoons mocking those left-wing idiocies.  We might see a cartoon of McCain in <span class="caps">KKK</span> robes planting a kiss on the cheek of Cindy in an SS uniform, with a swastika hanging on the wall.</p>

	<p>Of course, since the New Yorker tilts gently leftward and is a place where one would be more likely to find mockery of the right, then we would be more likely to see those hypothetical alternative cartoons in right-leaning magazines, since that is where you would expect to find mockery of the left.</p>

	<p>But, fortunately, there are not any significant numbers of Democrats running around expressing these kinds of paranoid anxieties about the Secret Life of the McCains.  So Republicans don&#8217;t have the opportunity to engage in the same kind of ribbing of the left that the New Yorker was giving to the right.</p>

	<p>New Yorker covers are never supposed to be laugh out loud funny &#8211; unlike some of the cartoons inside the magazine.  Where they aim for humor at all, they aim only to be mildly amusing.  And this cover I found mildly amusing, before all the silly ruckus.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Harrison</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246248</guid>
		<description>If you are going to be offensive, at least be funny. The New Yorker cover was like one of those really ripe dirty jokes that doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If you are going to be offensive, at least be funny. The New Yorker cover was like one of those really ripe dirty jokes that doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: swampcracker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246245</link>
		<dc:creator>swampcracker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246245</guid>
		<description>When one magazine cover bombs, perhaps next the best strategy is to divert attention from the original controversy by releasing the next issue early. There is a rendering circulating the Internet that shows what this hypothetical cover might look like.  In the interest of equal-time political bashing, what we have here are the essential memes of Senator McCain. 
 
Posed in a hospital gown that is slightly open in the rear, McCain stands symbolically next to a walker. OK, we get it. Aware of the best traditions of the Internet, this latest cover reminds us that McCain is the oldest contender in the presidential sweepstakes. 
 
Notice the automatic weapon in one hand and a fist-full of lobbyist cash entering from stage left. Notice the Apocalyptic column of smoke invoking the neo-con dream of 100 more years of war. And notice that look of Anger McManagement on McCain’s face. But what is that skin condition supposed to suggest, and what is missing from this picture? 
 
Perhaps there should be a hand entering from stage right passing divorce papers to a woman in a wheelchair. Or perhaps a mustard-laden hotdog taking off from an aircraft carrier while jets on the fight deck burst into flames. Instead of pock marks on his face and buttocks, perhaps criss-crossed band aids with the words “Keating Five” and “Czechoslovakia” and “Whiners” written on them.  Let us not forget an image of Senator Joe Lieberman’s face tattooed on McCain’s derriere.  And please make sure Lieberman’s lips are puckered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When one magazine cover bombs, perhaps next the best strategy is to divert attention from the original controversy by releasing the next issue early. There is a rendering circulating the Internet that shows what this hypothetical cover might look like.  In the interest of equal-time political bashing, what we have here are the essential memes of Senator McCain.</p>

	<p>Posed in a hospital gown that is slightly open in the rear, McCain stands symbolically next to a walker. OK, we get it. Aware of the best traditions of the Internet, this latest cover reminds us that McCain is the oldest contender in the presidential sweepstakes.</p>

	<p>Notice the automatic weapon in one hand and a fist-full of lobbyist cash entering from stage left. Notice the Apocalyptic column of smoke invoking the neo-con dream of 100 more years of war. And notice that look of Anger McManagement on McCain&#8217;s face. But what is that skin condition supposed to suggest, and what is missing from this picture?</p>

	<p>Perhaps there should be a hand entering from stage right passing divorce papers to a woman in a wheelchair. Or perhaps a mustard-laden hotdog taking off from an aircraft carrier while jets on the fight deck burst into flames. Instead of pock marks on his face and buttocks, perhaps criss-crossed band aids with the words &#8220;Keating Five&#8221; and &#8220;Czechoslovakia&#8221; and &#8220;Whiners&#8221; written on them.  Let us not forget an image of Senator Joe Lieberman&#8217;s face tattooed on McCain&#8217;s derriere.  And please make sure Lieberman&#8217;s lips are puckered.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nur al-Cubicle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246228</link>
		<dc:creator>Nur al-Cubicle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246228</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why does Michelle have her legs crossed like that?&lt;/i&gt;

Are you sure it&#039;s Michelle and not Angela Davis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Why does Michelle have her legs crossed like that?</i></p>

	<p>Are you sure it&#8217;s Michelle and not Angela Davis?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246226</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246226</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Illustrating a particular worldview in a wholly undistorted and completely accurate manner does not constitute satire.&lt;/i&gt;

See Candide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Illustrating a particular worldview in a wholly undistorted and completely accurate manner does not constitute satire.</i></p>

	<p>See Candide.</p>
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		<title>By: Forrest</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/15/cartoonery/comment-page-2/#comment-246219</link>
		<dc:creator>Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7060#comment-246219</guid>
		<description>Illustrating a particular worldview in a wholly undistorted and completely accurate manner does not constitute satire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Illustrating a particular worldview in a wholly undistorted and completely accurate manner does not constitute satire.</p>
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