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	<title>Comments on: Back to the Futura</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Christopher Fahey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-248069</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Fahey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-248069</guid>
		<description>In fact, Fraktur was banned by the Nazis in the &quot;Bormann Decree&quot; because of the fact that it was based on Hebrew Script. 

So, to the Nazis, Fraktur is too Jewish, but sans-serif fonts are also too Jewish. Hell, writing itself is pretty darn Jewish. Maybe the Nazis were on a path towards banning all writing, period. Seems plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In fact, Fraktur was banned by the Nazis in the &#8220;Bormann Decree&#8221; because of the fact that it was based on Hebrew Script.</p>

	<p>So, to the Nazis, Fraktur is too Jewish, but sans-serif fonts are also too Jewish. Hell, writing itself is pretty darn Jewish. Maybe the Nazis were on a path towards banning all writing, period. Seems plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: a very public sociologist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247946</link>
		<dc:creator>a very public sociologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247946</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t look fascist - didn&#039;t all parties back in the 30s use similar imagery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It doesn&#8217;t look fascist &#8211; didn&#8217;t all parties back in the 30s use similar imagery?</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247861</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247861</guid>
		<description>This archive of Weimar election posters gives a good selection of 20s political typography/iconography:
http://www.wahlplakate-archiv.de/
It&#039;s not possible to link to individual posters, but 1932 has at least two interesting examples of something like sans serif Fraktur, mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This archive of Weimar election posters gives a good selection of 20s political typography/iconography:<br />
<a href="http://www.wahlplakate-archiv.de/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wahlplakate-archiv.de/</a><br />
It&#8217;s not possible to link to individual posters, but 1932 has at least two interesting examples of something like sans serif Fraktur, mentioned above.</p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247851</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247851</guid>
		<description>Helen 07.28.08 at 5:09 am:

I think the thrust of that article was that the crowd size reflected the band&#039;s popularity, not Obama&#039;s. Probably not true, but don&#039;t make more of it than it was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Helen 07.28.08 at 5:09 am:</p>

	<p>I think the thrust of that article was that the crowd size reflected the band&#8217;s popularity, not Obama&#8217;s. Probably not true, but don&#8217;t make more of it than it was.</p>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247827</link>
		<dc:creator>Keir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247827</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;. It’s all-American and progressive. Forget about the New Typography and the Bauhaus.&lt;/i&gt;

Um, the fact it&#039;s Bauhaus is why it&#039;s progressive -- and it isn&#039;t all-american, it&#039;s classical European Modernist. It really is El Lissitzky/van Doesburg/Rodchenko all the way.

Trust me, the people who designed that poster know damn fine exactly who they&#039;re quoting and what they meant, and that&#039;s why they used those models. Obama is using European Modernism the way politicians used to use Roman Antiquity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>. It&#8217;s all-American and progressive. Forget about the New Typography and the Bauhaus.</i></p>

	<p>Um, the fact it&#8217;s Bauhaus is why it&#8217;s progressive&#8212;and it isn&#8217;t all-american, it&#8217;s classical European Modernist. It really is El Lissitzky/van Doesburg/Rodchenko all the way.</p>

	<p>Trust me, the people who designed that poster know damn fine exactly who they&#8217;re quoting and what they meant, and that&#8217;s why they used those models. Obama is using European Modernism the way politicians used to use Roman Antiquity.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247826</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247826</guid>
		<description>I saw this hysterical sounding link on a rightwing blog: &lt;i&gt;Will the media report concert before Obama&#039;s Berlin speech?&lt;/i&gt; Oh dear god, what on earth happened that was so shameful the Librul Media are ... hushing it up?...
...Well...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/24/will-media-report-concert-obamas-berlin-speech&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Apparently&lt;/a&gt;, some rock musicians, and some &lt;i&gt;reggae!!!!!&lt;/i&gt; musicians... performed.

That&#039;s it.

I&#039;m still a little bemused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I saw this hysterical sounding link on a rightwing blog: <i>Will the media report concert before Obama&#8217;s Berlin speech?</i> Oh dear god, what on earth happened that was so shameful the Librul Media are &#8230; hushing it up?&#8230;<br />
&#8230;Well&#8230;</p>

	<p><a href="http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/24/will-media-report-concert-obamas-berlin-speech" rel="nofollow">Apparently</a>, some rock musicians, and some <i>reggae<img src="!" alt="" border="0" />!!</i> musicians&#8230; performed.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s it.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m still a little bemused.</p>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247808</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247808</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There can’t be many other examples of a sans-serif blackletter script, which is to my eye both beautiful and very peculiar.&lt;/i&gt;

And yet when I looked at that poster the typeface seemed very familiar, evocative, and characteristic.  I spent a year-plus in Bavaria in the mid-1950s as a little child, and I feel certain that this font or ones like it were used for the titles of many of the German children&#039;s books I had (published in the 1930s, for the most part).  Am now inspired to go dig them up.  I&#039;m almost certain that the Struwellise and Struwelpeter books had that font on the cover.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>There can&#8217;t be many other examples of a sans-serif blackletter script, which is to my eye both beautiful and very peculiar.</i></p>

	<p>And yet when I looked at that poster the typeface seemed very familiar, evocative, and characteristic.  I spent a year-plus in Bavaria in the mid-1950s as a little child, and I feel certain that this font or ones like it were used for the titles of many of the German children&#8217;s books I had (published in the 1930s, for the most part).  Am now inspired to go dig them up.  I&#8217;m almost certain that the Struwellise and Struwelpeter books had that font on the cover.</p>
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		<title>By: mollymooly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247762</link>
		<dc:creator>mollymooly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247762</guid>
		<description>For more on typography as a means of cultural stereotyping, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://asterix.openscroll.org/typography.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Goscinny, R. and A. Uderzo, passim.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For more on typography as a means of cultural stereotyping, see <a href="http://asterix.openscroll.org/typography.html" rel="nofollow">Goscinny, R. and A. Uderzo, passim.</a></p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247735</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247735</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d suggest that &lt;i&gt;if&lt;/i&gt; there is a parallel between the current Democratic party and the Nazis it lies in the adulation given &quot;the Leader&quot; and not in graphic arts styles. It may be that some observers are unconsciously reading from the former into the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d suggest that <i>if</i> there is a parallel between the current Democratic party and the Nazis it lies in the adulation given &#8220;the Leader&#8221; and not in graphic arts styles. It may be that some observers are unconsciously reading from the former into the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247733</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247733</guid>
		<description>Damn spam filter.

Bianca, a conservative &lt;i&gt;revolution&lt;/i&gt; will have avant-garde. I googled “iranian revolution” and “art” and the first link has this:
http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html

But soon after things settle down, neither conservatives, nor nationalists, nor soci@1ists, nor capitalists want any agitation, they want peace and quiet, stability. So, the demand for the avant-garde drops; good bye, till the next upheaval.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Damn spam filter.</p>

	<p>Bianca, a conservative <i>revolution</i> will have avant-garde. I googled &#8220;iranian revolution&#8221; and &#8220;art&#8221; and the first link has this:<br />
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html</a></p>

	<p>But soon after things settle down, neither conservatives, nor nationalists, nor soci@1ists, nor capitalists want any agitation, they want peace and quiet, stability. So, the demand for the avant-garde drops; good bye, till the next upheaval.</p>
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		<title>By: bad Jim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-2/#comment-247728</link>
		<dc:creator>bad Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247728</guid>
		<description>Bloix: thanks and no argument. Never having worked in stone myself I was never entirely convinced that routine embellishment could reliably conceal mistakes. When I try that sort of thing myself I generally make things worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bloix: thanks and no argument. Never having worked in stone myself I was never entirely convinced that routine embellishment could reliably conceal mistakes. When I try that sort of thing myself I generally make things worse.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-1/#comment-247727</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247727</guid>
		<description>Bianca, a conservative &lt;i&gt;revolution&lt;/i&gt; will have avant-garde. I googled &quot;iranian revolution&quot; and &quot;art&quot; and the first link has this: 
http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html

But of course soon after things settle down, neither conservatives, nor nationalists, nor socialists, nor capitalists want any agitation, they want peace and quiet, stability. So, demand for the avant-garde drops; till the next upheaval.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bianca, a conservative <i>revolution</i> will have avant-garde. I googled &#8220;iranian revolution&#8221; and &#8220;art&#8221; and the first link has this:<br />
<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nyu.edu/greyart/exhibits/iran/imageposters/index.html</a></p>

	<p>But of course soon after things settle down, neither conservatives, nor nationalists, nor socialists, nor capitalists want any agitation, they want peace and quiet, stability. So, demand for the avant-garde drops; till the next upheaval.</p>
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		<title>By: Bloix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-1/#comment-247724</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247724</guid>
		<description>well, that cross-out crept in on its own- I had nothing to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>well, that cross-out crept in on its own- I had nothing to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bloix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-1/#comment-247723</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247723</guid>
		<description>Bad Jim - our print alphabet is virtually two separate alphabets - in many cases the relationship between the capitals and the lower case letters is arbitrary (A - a, D - d, E - e, G -g) and in others the relationship is distant (B -b, F -f, L - l, M -m).  This is because our caps come (as you say) from Roman stonecut letters, which indeed did use serifs to dress up the end of a chiseled line - because the stonecutter&#039;s alphabet was an imitiation of a pen-and-ink script!  So the serifs on our upper-case letters went from pen and ink to stone to print. As for lower-case letters, the Romans had none.    They came to printing through the Carolingian script, a medieval script widely used across Europe. Those serifs went directly from pen to print.

Jared- that&#039;s a fascinating poster.  It&#039;s advertising the Volksempfanger,  an inexpensive radio set that the Nazis distributed so that everyone could listen to propaganda programs, and, being an ad for a radio (the height of modern technology) the poster is self-consciously modern.  It dates to 1936 - the Nazis decided to disallow Fraktur in 1941.  There can&#039;t be many other examples of a sans-serif blackletter script, which is to my eye both beautiful and very peculiar.

Robin - without disagreeing with you at all on the modern look of the poster, I would say that it owes a lot to constructivism.  The way the photo is integrated with the text through the use of color; the angled text, positioned to imply that Obama is saying the words, and the image of him from below, the way an audience views a speaker on a podium - the poster communicates urgency and immediacy, as if simply by seeing it you are already at the rally.  It reminds me a little bit of the work of El Lissitsky, who made the great poster Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bad Jim &#8211; our print alphabet is virtually two separate alphabets &#8211; in many cases the relationship between the capitals and the lower case letters is arbitrary (A &#8211; a, D &#8211; d, E &#8211; e, G <del>g) and in others the relationship is distant (B -b, F -f, L &#8211; l, M -m).  This is because our caps come (as you say) from Roman stonecut letters, which indeed did use serifs to dress up the end of a chiseled line &#8211; because the stonecutter&#8217;s alphabet was an imitiation of a pen</del>and-ink script!  So the serifs on our upper-case letters went from pen and ink to stone to print. As for lower-case letters, the Romans had none.    They came to printing through the Carolingian script, a medieval script widely used across Europe. Those serifs went directly from pen to print.</p>

	<p>Jared- that&#8217;s a fascinating poster.  It&#8217;s advertising the Volksempfanger,  an inexpensive radio set that the Nazis distributed so that everyone could listen to propaganda programs, and, being an ad for a radio (the height of modern technology) the poster is self-consciously modern.  It dates to 1936 &#8211; the Nazis decided to disallow Fraktur in 1941.  There can&#8217;t be many other examples of a sans-serif blackletter script, which is to my eye both beautiful and very peculiar.</p>

	<p>Robin &#8211; without disagreeing with you at all on the modern look of the poster, I would say that it owes a lot to constructivism.  The way the photo is integrated with the text through the use of color; the angled text, positioned to imply that Obama is saying the words, and the image of him from below, the way an audience views a speaker on a podium &#8211; the poster communicates urgency and immediacy, as if simply by seeing it you are already at the rally.  It reminds me a little bit of the work of El Lissitsky, who made the great poster Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge.</p>
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		<title>By: bad Jim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/07/26/back-to-the-futura/comment-page-1/#comment-247717</link>
		<dc:creator>bad Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7151#comment-247717</guid>
		<description>A book I no longer have claimed that the serifs on Roman capital letters originated in stonecutting as an attractive way to dress the end of a chiseled line, and I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;ve seen stone inscriptions of that sort. I can&#039;t recall seeing any classical Greek artifacts with serif letter forms.

The Nazi&#039;s &quot;Entartete Kunst&quot; show was a big hit, setting records for attendance, and they cunningly sold off most of the works. The Tate Modern had a very nice selection on display when I last visited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A book I no longer have claimed that the serifs on Roman capital letters originated in stonecutting as an attractive way to dress the end of a chiseled line, and I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;ve seen stone inscriptions of that sort. I can&#8217;t recall seeing any classical Greek artifacts with serif letter forms.</p>

	<p>The Nazi&#8217;s &#8220;Entartete Kunst&#8221; show was a big hit, setting records for attendance, and they cunningly sold off most of the works. The Tate Modern had a very nice selection on display when I last visited.</p>
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