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	<title>Comments on: Grade Inflation</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Garos</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-250164</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Garos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 04:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-250164</guid>
		<description>The really funny thing about legacies at schools like Harvard and Yale is that those schools don&#039;t even need the money.  You can make a decent argument that if someone donates $1,000,000 to a financially-struggling state school or relatively young private institution, their kid ought to be admitted - their money benefits hundreds of other students and allows for more scholarships to low-income students, academic support, better facilities, etc.  Taking the kid probably keeps the money flowing and builds a better future institution.  But Harvard and Yale are at the level where they couldn&#039;t spend down their endowments if they tried, and they&#039;re STILL chasing more endowment money as if they&#039;re William and Mary or Northeastern.  What&#039;s Harvard going to do: bulldoze Allston and build a city of gold?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The really funny thing about legacies at schools like Harvard and Yale is that those schools don&#8217;t even need the money.  You can make a decent argument that if someone donates $1,000,000 to a financially-struggling state school or relatively young private institution, their kid ought to be admitted &#8211; their money benefits hundreds of other students and allows for more scholarships to low-income students, academic support, better facilities, etc.  Taking the kid probably keeps the money flowing and builds a better future institution.  But Harvard and Yale are at the level where they couldn&#8217;t spend down their endowments if they tried, and they&#8217;re <span class="caps">STILL</span> chasing more endowment money as if they&#8217;re William and Mary or Northeastern.  What&#8217;s Harvard going to do: bulldoze Allston and build a city of gold?</p>
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		<title>By: dr ngo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-250097</link>
		<dc:creator>dr ngo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 07:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-250097</guid>
		<description>Belatedly, FWIW, I wouldn&#039;t blame the VN war too much for grade inflation:

1) At the time, when there was talk of professors giving higher grades to enable people to beat the draft, it was *men only*, and in most cases mentioned, the &quot;inflation&quot; was just enough to lift them from a failing grade (or D) to a passing one.  The key concept, supposedly, was not to be responsible for their failing out of college and thus losing 2-S status and becoming draft eligible.  There were, anecdotally, a very few profs who decided to give the entire class &quot;A&quot;s as a kind of protest, but I can&#039;t imagine they had significant impact on academe as a whole - except as yet another angle from which to question the significance of grades in general.

2) As others have noted, grade inflation - or at least the perception of it - was not limited to the US.  E.g., it was widely perceived at the University of Hong Kong, where I taught for many years, and certainly would have had nothing to do with draft exemption or (affirmative action!) there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Belatedly, <span class="caps">FWIW</span>, I wouldn&#8217;t blame the VN war too much for grade inflation:</p>

	<p>1) At the time, when there was talk of professors giving higher grades to enable people to beat the draft, it was <strong>men only</strong>, and in most cases mentioned, the &#8220;inflation&#8221; was just enough to lift them from a failing grade (or D) to a passing one.  The key concept, supposedly, was not to be responsible for their failing out of college and thus losing 2-S status and becoming draft eligible.  There were, anecdotally, a very few profs who decided to give the entire class &#8220;A&#8221;s as a kind of protest, but I can&#8217;t imagine they had significant impact on academe as a whole &#8211; except as yet another angle from which to question the significance of grades in general.</p>

	<p>2) As others have noted, grade inflation &#8211; or at least the perception of it &#8211; was not limited to the US.  E.g., it was widely perceived at the University of Hong Kong, where I taught for many years, and certainly would have had nothing to do with draft exemption or (affirmative action!) there.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249954</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249954</guid>
		<description>@104, thanks, that&#039;s what I try to offer to sad crypto-neo-Marxist rants. It&#039;s a tough job, but someone&#039;s got to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@104, thanks, that&#8217;s what I try to offer to sad crypto-neo-Marxist rants. It&#8217;s a tough job, but someone&#8217;s got to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Mako Hill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249893</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Mako Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249893</guid>
		<description>I find this discussion a bit silly. Grades are a very simple single dimensional scale that we use to summarize and communicate very complicated events. Of course these sorts of problems come up.

Meanwhile, there are colleges and universities who have been successfully been using written evaluations for decades in place of or in addition to grades. It&#039;s not hard to call out that truly exceptional student in an written evaluation or the brilliant one who could have put more effort and done more than very good -- you just say so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I find this discussion a bit silly. Grades are a very simple single dimensional scale that we use to summarize and communicate very complicated events. Of course these sorts of problems come up.</p>

	<p>Meanwhile, there are colleges and universities who have been successfully been using written evaluations for decades in place of or in addition to grades. It&#8217;s not hard to call out that truly exceptional student in an written evaluation or the brilliant one who could have put more effort and done more than very good&#8212;you just say so.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249881</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249881</guid>
		<description>#109, it was obviously protected with an insecure password.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#109, it was obviously protected with an insecure password.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249880</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249880</guid>
		<description>#98 Feel free! I stole it from someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#98 Feel free! I stole it from someone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249879</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249879</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;are you seriously suggesting that students got substantially better&lt;/i&gt;

I believe the suggestion is that while grades went up there isn&#039;t an identifiable cause to point to, so no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>are you seriously suggesting that students got substantially better</i></p>

	<p>I believe the suggestion is that while grades went up there isn&#8217;t an identifiable cause to point to, so no.</p>
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		<title>By: F</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249877</link>
		<dc:creator>F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249877</guid>
		<description>Okay, it&#039;s definitely not conclusive, but are you seriously suggesting that students got substantially better from 1967 to 1971, didn&#039;t change at all from 1971 to 1988, and then have gotten monotonically better from 1988 until 2000?  Because that&#039;s what Rojstaczer&#039;s data indicates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Okay, it&#8217;s definitely not conclusive, but are you seriously suggesting that students got substantially better from 1967 to 1971, didn&#8217;t change at all from 1971 to 1988, and then have gotten monotonically better from 1988 until 2000?  Because that&#8217;s what Rojstaczer&#8217;s data indicates.</p>
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		<title>By: James Wimberley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249864</link>
		<dc:creator>James Wimberley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249864</guid>
		<description>The last word on examinations must be the anecdote about the German prince in the Baroque era who advertised for a new court composer. He had a chamber orchestra and no choir, so the applicants were asked to submit a few suitable instrumental &lt;i&gt;concerti&lt;/i&gt;. You have no doubt heard the submissions of one of the losing candidates - to, of course, the Elector of Brandenburg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The last word on examinations must be the anecdote about the German prince in the Baroque era who advertised for a new court composer. He had a chamber orchestra and no choir, so the applicants were asked to submit a few suitable instrumental <i>concerti</i>. You have no doubt heard the submissions of one of the losing candidates &#8211; to, of course, the Elector of Brandenburg.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249856</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249856</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll happily take your word for it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll happily take your word for it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249850</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249850</guid>
		<description>engels -- patience and reasonableness to those who don&#039;t deserve it is a lot of fun, when you can manage it....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>engels&#8212;patience and reasonableness to those who don&#8217;t deserve it is a lot of fun, when you can manage it&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249838</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249838</guid>
		<description>Please go and bother someone else, Dave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Please go and bother someone else, Dave.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249837</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249837</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;using grades as a marker of how good you are compared to everyone else applying that year, as opposed to how good you are against some theoretical absolute standard, made perfect sense, and would do again if revived.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure if this is helpful to the student.  X people in class are dumber/smarter than you seems to me to be less worthwhile than a signifier of how well you understand your material.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>using grades as a marker of how good you are compared to everyone else applying that year, as opposed to how good you are against some theoretical absolute standard, made perfect sense, and would do again if revived.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not sure if this is helpful to the student.  X people in class are dumber/smarter than you seems to me to be less worthwhile than a signifier of how well you understand your material.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-3/#comment-249825</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249825</guid>
		<description>When you get to be one of the blog owners, you can stop me commenting, can&#039;t you? I don&#039;t see, myself, why your long paragraph of sarcasm was so superior as not to merit a short paragraph of sarcasm in return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When you get to be one of the blog owners, you can stop me commenting, can&#8217;t you? I don&#8217;t see, myself, why your long paragraph of sarcasm was so superior as not to merit a short paragraph of sarcasm in return.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/18/grade-inflation/comment-page-2/#comment-249822</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7426#comment-249822</guid>
		<description>Also, none of the above should be taken as disagreement with Harry&#039;s critique of Mansfield, which I thought was very well-taken, my only reservation (if it is one) being that seemed more patient and reasonable than the guy deserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, none of the above should be taken as disagreement with Harry&#8217;s critique of Mansfield, which I thought was very well-taken, my only reservation (if it is one) being that seemed more patient and reasonable than the guy deserves.</p>
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