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	<title>Comments on: Herr Professor Daddy?  I didn&#8217;t think so.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250095</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250095</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do you remember the spelling?:)&lt;/i&gt;

Ezter Hartigay.  Thanks for being her mother:  she gave me the gadgetiest gadget a boy could have hoped for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Do you remember the spelling?:)</i></p>

	<p>Ezter Hartigay.  Thanks for being her mother:  she gave me the gadgetiest gadget a boy could have hoped for.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter Hargittai</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250091</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter Hargittai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250091</guid>
		<description>RB, interesting, glad I showed up as being helpful.  Do you remember the spelling?:) Don&#039;t tell me, all a&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>RB, interesting, glad I showed up as being helpful.  Do you remember the spelling?:) Don&#8217;t tell me, all a&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250089</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250089</guid>
		<description>Um, oops? (I guess it would be really inappropriate to say thanks for this original and unexpected gift, hunh.) 

neat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Um, oops? (I guess it would be really inappropriate to say thanks for this original and unexpected gift, hunh.)</p>

	<p>neat.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250049</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250049</guid>
		<description>I shit you not:  woke up from a dream in which I was moving to a new place.  For some reason I had asked around for a dumb terminal to connect to something, and I got a beautiful package, and inside was some kind of superterminal that looked like an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vintageplanet.nl/pics/felix/Odyssey-w.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arp Odyssey&lt;/a&gt; but with a screen.  Who sent me the package?  Eszter Hargittai (although my dream-circuitry couldn&#039;t spell her last name properly).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I shit you not:  woke up from a dream in which I was moving to a new place.  For some reason I had asked around for a dumb terminal to connect to something, and I got a beautiful package, and inside was some kind of superterminal that looked like an <a href="http://www.vintageplanet.nl/pics/felix/Odyssey-w.jpg" rel="nofollow">Arp Odyssey</a> but with a screen.  Who sent me the package?  Eszter Hargittai (although my dream-circuitry couldn&#8217;t spell her last name properly).</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter Hargittai</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250003</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter Hargittai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250003</guid>
		<description>Vivian, interesting suggestions for possible responses. I purposefully held back on bringing up the question of how one would respond in such a situation, thinking it could make for a whole separate post (especially with a bit larger context).  I like your suggestions, as you say, they&#039;re non-confrontational, which I think is important here.

On a completely different note, I&#039;d like to point out that you managed to do something I was striving for all day (but then had to leave my machine to go out to dinner): you wrote comment number #25,000 on CT!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Vivian, interesting suggestions for possible responses. I purposefully held back on bringing up the question of how one would respond in such a situation, thinking it could make for a whole separate post (especially with a bit larger context).  I like your suggestions, as you say, they&#8217;re non-confrontational, which I think is important here.</p>

	<p>On a completely different note, I&#8217;d like to point out that you managed to do something I was striving for all day (but then had to leave my machine to go out to dinner): you wrote comment number #25,000 on CT!</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-250000</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-250000</guid>
		<description>Some commenters are probably missing your point, yes (and we&#039;re all thinking &quot;not me!&quot;). Some are pointing out that &quot;thank you for doing something caring, which is rare in academia&quot; is not necessarily &quot;the only thing I credit you with doing is caring.&quot; From what we know here, it&#039;s not necessarily denying her authority.  Although you&#039;ve got good judgment and have fuller information, so I&#039;d probably agree with you if I knew what you knew. If, say, these were students who generally didn&#039;t listen to her except for emotional support, etc. But since so many professors love to say &quot;I&#039;m not here to hold your hand&quot; with that dismissive sneer, the rare bit of validation is worth rewarding. 

Did your friend have a chance to say &quot;Thanks for an interesting gift. You know, it could be taken several different ways; which one did you intend?&quot; or &quot;what made you think of that original thank-you gift?&quot; I might not have the nerve, but it seems like it could be done politely and nonconfrontationally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Some commenters are probably missing your point, yes (and we&#8217;re all thinking &#8220;not me!&#8221;). Some are pointing out that &#8220;thank you for doing something caring, which is rare in academia&#8221; is not necessarily &#8220;the only thing I credit you with doing is caring.&#8221; From what we know here, it&#8217;s not necessarily denying her authority.  Although you&#8217;ve got good judgment and have fuller information, so I&#8217;d probably agree with you if I knew what you knew. If, say, these were students who generally didn&#8217;t listen to her except for emotional support, etc. But since so many professors love to say &#8220;I&#8217;m not here to hold your hand&#8221; with that dismissive sneer, the rare bit of validation is worth rewarding.</p>

	<p>Did your friend have a chance to say &#8220;Thanks for an interesting gift. You know, it could be taken several different ways; which one did you intend?&#8221; or &#8220;what made you think of that original thank-you gift?&#8221; I might not have the nerve, but it seems like it could be done politely and nonconfrontationally.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron_m</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249956</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron_m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249956</guid>
		<description>&quot; Presumably there’s some private joke behind it. Perhaps the diss. director has openly had cosmetic surgery.&quot;

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.... I still don&#039;t get it :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8221; Presumably there&#8217;s some private joke behind it. Perhaps the diss. director has openly had cosmetic surgery.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Ha ha ha ha ha ha&#8230;. I still don&#8217;t get it :(</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter Hargittai</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249955</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter Hargittai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249955</guid>
		<description>Although I haven’t been responding, I have been reading the comments. There are lots of interesting notes here, but overall I feel like most people missed the main point I was trying to make.  If you go back and read my post, it is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; about whether faculty should or should not be offering emotional support or mentoring beyond what is strictly research-related. 

My post’s main intended point was that based on plenty of anecdotal evidence, women are, more often than their male colleagues, seen &lt;i&gt;primarily&lt;/i&gt; in the role of nurturer rather than that of intellectual mentor while men don’t face this either/or distinction.  This goes along with the general idea that women mainly tend to be seen in one of three ways: nurturer (mommy), sexualized, or a bitch. Where’s the room for the authority figure or the intellectual?  

Phil’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/#comment-249832&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment&lt;/a&gt; above is a good example of precisely what I meant to point out is the problem, but a point he seems to be using to dismiss my claim about differences that are a concern [added emphasis mine]:  &lt;i&gt;I doubt if male students treat female professors in the same way they treat male professors, but I would also doubt that is primarily because male students expect emotional support from female professors in a way they don’t expect from male professors. &lt;b&gt;Instead, it is probably because they simply don’t see women as authority figures in the way they see men.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;  THAT was precisely my point. Female academics are approached differently than their male colleagues in terms of their potential role.  They are not thought of primarily as the authority figure who has the ability to guide the intellectual conversations of their classrooms or their disciplines.  I rest my case.

Also, just to be clear, I don’t doubt that there are plenty of male profs who are sought out for and do provide emotional guidance. That’s not the point: the point is that this aspect of their contribution to student development doesn’t overshadow all other aspects of their contributions as it is much likely to do with women.

Sebastian &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/#comment-249846&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;raises&lt;/a&gt; a good point about whether “mommy” is really the equivalent of “daddy”. (I struggled with the title of this post and given this point, it may not work so well.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Although I haven&#8217;t been responding, I have been reading the comments. There are lots of interesting notes here, but overall I feel like most people missed the main point I was trying to make.  If you go back and read my post, it is <i>not</i> about whether faculty should or should not be offering emotional support or mentoring beyond what is strictly research-related.</p>

	<p>My post&#8217;s main intended point was that based on plenty of anecdotal evidence, women are, more often than their male colleagues, seen <i>primarily</i> in the role of nurturer rather than that of intellectual mentor while men don&#8217;t face this either/or distinction.  This goes along with the general idea that women mainly tend to be seen in one of three ways: nurturer (mommy), sexualized, or a bitch. Where&#8217;s the room for the authority figure or the intellectual?</p>

	<p>Phil&#8217;s <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/#comment-249832" rel="nofollow">comment</a> above is a good example of precisely what I meant to point out is the problem, but a point he seems to be using to dismiss my claim about differences that are a concern [added emphasis mine]:  <i>I doubt if male students treat female professors in the same way they treat male professors, but I would also doubt that is primarily because male students expect emotional support from female professors in a way they don&#8217;t expect from male professors. <b>Instead, it is probably because they simply don&#8217;t see women as authority figures in the way they see men.</b></i>  <span class="caps">THAT</span> was precisely my point. Female academics are approached differently than their male colleagues in terms of their potential role.  They are not thought of primarily as the authority figure who has the ability to guide the intellectual conversations of their classrooms or their disciplines.  I rest my case.</p>

	<p>Also, just to be clear, I don&#8217;t doubt that there are plenty of male profs who are sought out for and do provide emotional guidance. That&#8217;s not the point: the point is that this aspect of their contribution to student development doesn&#8217;t overshadow all other aspects of their contributions as it is much likely to do with women.</p>

	<p>Sebastian <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/#comment-249846" rel="nofollow">raises</a> a good point about whether &#8220;mommy&#8221; is really the equivalent of &#8220;daddy&#8221;. (I struggled with the title of this post and given this point, it may not work so well.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249950</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249950</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How can anyone not see a problem with “My Beautiful Mommy”? &lt;/i&gt;

Well it was stated in the Twitter thing that it was a gag gift. Presumably there&#039;s some private joke behind it. Perhaps the diss. director has openly had cosmetic surgery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>How can anyone not see a problem with &#8220;My Beautiful Mommy&#8221;? </i></p>

	<p>Well it was stated in the Twitter thing that it was a gag gift. Presumably there&#8217;s some private joke behind it. Perhaps the diss. director has openly had cosmetic surgery.</p>
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		<title>By: magistra</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249948</link>
		<dc:creator>magistra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249948</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Unless it was an in-joke between teacher and student (and even then, hmmm) it has overtones of the teacher needs to get cosmetic surgery.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d say it is most likely to be an in-joke. The book looks like a particularly crass example of commodification of women,  the superficiality of some contemporary US  culture etc, the sort of topics that many academics would have discussed in lectures.  For a student to give this book then would be a way to say: &#039;Look, here&#039;s a particularly clear example of the problems you&#039;re pointing out, let&#039;s laugh at it together&#039;.  That would be along the lines of giving someone who lectured on religion and culture a bit of Jesus kitsch or a plastic saint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Unless it was an in-joke between teacher and student (and even then, hmmm) it has overtones of the teacher needs to get cosmetic surgery.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;d say it is most likely to be an in-joke. The book looks like a particularly crass example of commodification of women,  the superficiality of some contemporary <span class="caps">US </span> culture etc, the sort of topics that many academics would have discussed in lectures.  For a student to give this book then would be a way to say: &#8216;Look, here&#8217;s a particularly clear example of the problems you&#8217;re pointing out, let&#8217;s laugh at it together&#8217;.  That would be along the lines of giving someone who lectured on religion and culture a bit of Jesus kitsch or a plastic saint.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249943</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249943</guid>
		<description>Some of the commenters here seem to think that the only issue here is of female academics being perceived as nurturing. Maybe people are in a hurry and haven&#039;t clicked on the link to the second example. How can anyone not see a problem with &quot;My Beautiful Mommy&quot;? Unless it was an in-joke between teacher and student (and even then, hmmm) it has overtones of the teacher needs to get cosmetic surgery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Some of the commenters here seem to think that the only issue here is of female academics being perceived as nurturing. Maybe people are in a hurry and haven&#8217;t clicked on the link to the second example. How can anyone not see a problem with &#8220;My Beautiful Mommy&#8221;? Unless it was an in-joke between teacher and student (and even then, hmmm) it has overtones of the teacher needs to get cosmetic surgery.</p>
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		<title>By: bigcitylib</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249942</link>
		<dc:creator>bigcitylib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249942</guid>
		<description>Wow!  In some jobs you have to worry about getting shot at or burned in a fire.  As a college prof., its breaking into cold sweats at night over the thought you might get an inappropriate gift the next morning!

Toughen up, people, there&#039;s kids starving in Namibia!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wow!  In some jobs you have to worry about getting shot at or burned in a fire.  As a college prof., its breaking into cold sweats at night over the thought you might get an inappropriate gift the next morning!</p>

	<p>Toughen up, people, there&#8217;s kids starving in Namibia!</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249937</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249937</guid>
		<description>Novakant, I have a good friend with a small law practice who says the same thing, that he does the most good for the clients by listening to them, and that makes the paperwork parts of the job worthwhile for him. 

I did once mention to my (undergrad) advisor that he was sort of an intellectual &#039;father&#039; to me, (having truly given good advice, support, ideas and generally being interested in my ill-formed ideas.) He blandly said &quot;Oh, is that the role I get in your psychodrama?&quot; I replied that Freud only gave us about four template roles , which reminded him of a great book I should read... etc.  (wonderful advisor, a real mensch. Died much too young.)

However, I was as likely to nurture my professors as seek reassurance from them. Frex, bought one a bike helmet when he didn&#039;t wear one. (He still didn&#039;t wear it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Novakant, I have a good friend with a small law practice who says the same thing, that he does the most good for the clients by listening to them, and that makes the paperwork parts of the job worthwhile for him.</p>

	<p>I did once mention to my (undergrad) advisor that he was sort of an intellectual &#8216;father&#8217; to me, (having truly given good advice, support, ideas and generally being interested in my ill-formed ideas.) He blandly said &#8220;Oh, is that the role I get in your psychodrama?&#8221; I replied that Freud only gave us about four template roles , which reminded him of a great book I should read&#8230; etc.  (wonderful advisor, a real mensch. Died much too young.)</p>

	<p>However, I was as likely to nurture my professors as seek reassurance from them. Frex, bought one a bike helmet when he didn&#8217;t wear one. (He still didn&#8217;t wear it.)</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249936</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249936</guid>
		<description>I would think there is quite a difference between the emotion work a lawyer might be asked to do, in say a divorce, or the kind a TA might be asked to do and the relationship between a student and her mentor. The expectations are different. I have a friend who is a TA in the Dept. of Dendrochronology and pursing her PHD there. Her relationship with her students is different than her relationship with her advisor. She had a student come to her in some distress because he is failing the class. And my friend might fail him. She sent him to the U&#039;s counseling services. That&#039;s markedly different than when she went to her advisor because she needed more time to work on her thesis because she is seeing a therapist. Not to mention that the University has made an investment in her and she has demonstrated her ability. She is quite bright. So I guess there is an incentive on their part to make sure she succeeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would think there is quite a difference between the emotion work a lawyer might be asked to do, in say a divorce, or the kind a TA might be asked to do and the relationship between a student and her mentor. The expectations are different. I have a friend who is a TA in the Dept. of Dendrochronology and pursing her <span class="caps">PHD</span> there. Her relationship with her students is different than her relationship with her advisor. She had a student come to her in some distress because he is failing the class. And my friend might fail him. She sent him to the U&#8217;s counseling services. That&#8217;s markedly different than when she went to her advisor because she needed more time to work on her thesis because she is seeing a therapist. Not to mention that the University has made an investment in her and she has demonstrated her ability. She is quite bright. So I guess there is an incentive on their part to make sure she succeeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/19/herr-professor-daddy-i-didnt-think-so/comment-page-2/#comment-249933</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7450#comment-249933</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But teaching does seem to be toward the more-emotional-work end of the continuum.&lt;/i&gt;

Teaching what?  Are student/teacher relationships creepier in the philosophy department or the entomology department?  God help me, I want to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But teaching does seem to be toward the more-emotional-work end of the continuum.</i></p>

	<p>Teaching what?  Are student/teacher relationships creepier in the philosophy department or the entomology department?  God help me, I want to know.</p>
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