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	<title>Comments on: East Coast Bias</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250251</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250251</guid>
		<description>Not sure why there are cross-outs in my last posts.  There should not be.  It should be Phoenix-Dallas-Atlanta.  etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not sure why there are cross-outs in my last posts.  There should not be.  It should be Phoenix-Dallas-Atlanta.  etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250250</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250250</guid>
		<description>Hoover was 28 and 32 not 32 and 36.  But more importantly, time zones are a whacky way to define what is Western.   Minnesota self-identifies as western as much as mid-western with it&#039;s important role as a train and plane distribution point for Western commerce.  Minneapolis-Seattle defines one of three important Western axes the other two being San Francisco-Chicago and Los Angeles -Phoneix-Dallas -Atlanta.   The Democrats have typically thought in terms of Sunbelt hence the overrepresentation of Texas on Democratic tickets and the under-representation of California.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hoover was 28 and 32 not 32 and 36.  But more importantly, time zones are a whacky way to define what is Western.   Minnesota self-identifies as western as much as mid-western with it&#8217;s important role as a train and plane distribution point for Western commerce.  Minneapolis-Seattle defines one of three important Western axes the other two being San Francisco-Chicago and Los Angeles <del>Phoneix</del>Dallas <del>Atlanta.   The Democrats have typically thought in terms of Sunbelt hence the overrepresentation of Texas on Democratic tickets and the under</del>representation of California.</p>
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		<title>By: a very public sociologist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250212</link>
		<dc:creator>a very public sociologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250212</guid>
		<description>Well we all know now his pick was Joe Biden. What do you guys think about that? Help or hindrance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well we all know now his pick was Joe Biden. What do you guys think about that? Help or hindrance?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Shugart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250183</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Shugart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250183</guid>
		<description>Andrew, at #14, in his parenthetical statements, encapsulates why I decided not to try to figure out how many members of US congress represent areas they originate from.

This sort of question is a lot easier to answer for countries that use proportional representation in districts that coincide with states/provinces. (The answer in such cases turns out to be most, and more when districts are on the smaller side, or lists are open.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Andrew, at #14, in his parenthetical statements, encapsulates why I decided not to try to figure out how many members of US congress represent areas they originate from.</p>

	<p>This sort of question is a lot easier to answer for countries that use proportional representation in districts that coincide with states/provinces. (The answer in such cases turns out to be most, and more when districts are on the smaller side, or lists are open.)</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250130</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250130</guid>
		<description>I believe that rather than population per se (and remember that the emphasis in national elections is on electoral votes and what are now called swing states) the operative factor has been that historically in the west the opposition to the Republican/plutocratic/big business party has not been so much the Democrats as the socialists, populists, free silvers, greenbackers, progressives, and probably a couple of others I&#039;m leaving out.  In California effective opposition, until the rise of Pat Brown, was the Johnson-Warren Republicans.  In addition, Western Democrats (Bryan being the best known) tended to be marginal to the Southern-urban-sound money alliance that produced most of the Democratic national tickets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I believe that rather than population per se (and remember that the emphasis in national elections is on electoral votes and what are now called swing states) the operative factor has been that historically in the west the opposition to the Republican/plutocratic/big business party has not been so much the Democrats as the socialists, populists, free silvers, greenbackers, progressives, and probably a couple of others I&#8217;m leaving out.  In California effective opposition, until the rise of Pat Brown, was the Johnson-Warren Republicans.  In addition, Western Democrats (Bryan being the best known) tended to be marginal to the Southern-urban-sound money alliance that produced most of the Democratic national tickets.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250128</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250128</guid>
		<description>I think more than the low population (and remember that in presidential elections it isn&#039;t population per se that counts, it&#039;s electoral votes and what are now called swing states) the operative factor may be that the opposition to the Republican/plutocratic/business party has not historically always been the democrats, it&#039;s been socialists, greenbackers, populists, free silvers, and perhaps most importantly (in California) progressive Republicans of the Earl Warren/Hiram Johnson variety.  Plus the democrats have tended to be fringe figures like Bryan, fringe at least in the sense of outside of the Southern-urban Catholic-sound money alliance that typically produced national democratic candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think more than the low population (and remember that in presidential elections it isn&#8217;t population per se that counts, it&#8217;s electoral votes and what are now called swing states) the operative factor may be that the opposition to the Republican/plutocratic/business party has not historically always been the democrats, it&#8217;s been socialists, greenbackers, populists, free silvers, and perhaps most importantly (in California) progressive Republicans of the Earl Warren/Hiram Johnson variety.  Plus the democrats have tended to be fringe figures like Bryan, fringe at least in the sense of outside of the Southern-urban Catholic-sound money alliance that typically produced national democratic candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Rubard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250094</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Rubard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250094</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, I didn&#039;t really read the post (generally, I don&#039;t find your work that compelling). The point is that the low population is something someone reading Crooked Timber might very well not know, and the reasons for it are that the West is not all that habitable for the most part, and the part that is habitable doesn&#039;t really have especial &quot;draws&quot;. 

However, your argument is indeed not compelling because you&#039;ve ignored the historical dimension: most of that population is actually quite new -- the population of California in 1940 was 7 million, whereas New York&#039;s population was 14 million -- 7 million in New York City alone. (That is &quot;gerrymandered&quot; because there was a lot of population growth, particularly African-American, associated with war industries.) Similar trends exist in miniature for other Western states, and it would have been very strange indeed for candidates to be being chosen from such a demographically marginal area.

(BTW, there was a little bit of a joke about people who moved to the West early on in there, but I guess American humor doesn&#039;t translate well.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m sorry, I didn&#8217;t really read the post (generally, I don&#8217;t find your work that compelling). The point is that the low population is something someone reading Crooked Timber might very well not know, and the reasons for it are that the West is not all that habitable for the most part, and the part that is habitable doesn&#8217;t really have especial &#8220;draws&#8221;.</p>

	<p>However, your argument is indeed not compelling because you&#8217;ve ignored the historical dimension: most of that population is actually quite new&#8212;the population of California in 1940 was 7 million, whereas New York&#8217;s population was 14 million&#8212;7 million in New York City alone. (That is &#8220;gerrymandered&#8221; because there was a lot of population growth, particularly African-American, associated with war industries.) Similar trends exist in miniature for other Western states, and it would have been very strange indeed for candidates to be being chosen from such a demographically marginal area.</p>

	<p>(BTW, there was a little bit of a joke about people who moved to the West early on in there, but I guess American humor doesn&#8217;t translate well.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250092</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250092</guid>
		<description>Jeff and Ben, it is clearly true that the western &#039;half&#039; of the country contains less than half the people. My guess in the post was that it was less than 1/4 in fact. That&#039;s still a lot of people to have never had either a Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate.

Or put another way, the western &#039;half&#039; isn&#039;t exactly a gerrymandered group, and when a non-gerrymandered group produces 15 candidates for one party, and 0 for the other, I think that&#039;s kind of interesting.

Andrew, that&#039;s a good point about Pelosi, but I think for current purposes she pretty clearly counts as western. On entirely unscientific grounds, I think of the U.S. as much more migratory than most countries. Obviously in academia things are a little skewed, but even among non-academics, it seems normal for people to have families scattered over the country. (I suspect this is related to the common American practice of moving to go to college.) If that&#039;s right, it would be surprising if there weren&#039;t a lot of people whose high school (say) was a long way from their current home, and, if they are in the House of Representatives, their current district.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jeff and Ben, it is clearly true that the western &#8216;half&#8217; of the country contains less than half the people. My guess in the post was that it was less than 1/4 in fact. That&#8217;s still a lot of people to have never had either a Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate.</p>

	<p>Or put another way, the western &#8216;half&#8217; isn&#8217;t exactly a gerrymandered group, and when a non-gerrymandered group produces 15 candidates for one party, and 0 for the other, I think that&#8217;s kind of interesting.</p>

	<p>Andrew, that&#8217;s a good point about Pelosi, but I think for current purposes she pretty clearly counts as western. On entirely unscientific grounds, I think of the U.S. as much more migratory than most countries. Obviously in academia things are a little skewed, but even among non-academics, it seems normal for people to have families scattered over the country. (I suspect this is related to the common American practice of moving to go to college.) If that&#8217;s right, it would be surprising if there weren&#8217;t a lot of people whose high school (say) was a long way from their current home, and, if they are in the House of Representatives, their current district.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250084</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250084</guid>
		<description>Pelosi is western now, but she&#039;s from Maryland. 

Unrelated to the post, I wonder how many Congressional officials represent areas they did not grow up in and how many have either not left or returned to their &quot;home&quot; areas. (There are some definitional problems: allowance would have to be made for redistricting, and there&#039;s some question of whether running in a nearby district should be counted as staying in the same general area. Plus I&#039;m sure there are those who moved a lot and don&#039;t really have &quot;home&quot; districts at all.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Pelosi is western now, but she&#8217;s from Maryland.</p>

	<p>Unrelated to the post, I wonder how many Congressional officials represent areas they did not grow up in and how many have either not left or returned to their &#8220;home&#8221; areas. (There are some definitional problems: allowance would have to be made for redistricting, and there&#8217;s some question of whether running in a nearby district should be counted as staying in the same general area. Plus I&#8217;m sure there are those who moved a lot and don&#8217;t really have &#8220;home&#8221; districts at all.)</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250082</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250082</guid>
		<description>You called it!  I think you and I are the only ones who think so, but I think Brian Schweitzer is a great choice...however whenever I mention his name I get blank stares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You called it!  I think you and I are the only ones who think so, but I think Brian Schweitzer is a great choice&#8230;however whenever I mention his name I get blank stares.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Rubard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250077</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Rubard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250077</guid>
		<description>An additional comment: although there is a conclusion you could draw from the fact that 1/5 of the US population lives in the Western US and the numbers used to be lower, in fact the Western population overwhelmingly lives in cities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>An additional comment: although there is a conclusion you could draw from the fact that 1/5 of the US population lives in the Western US and the numbers used to be lower, in fact the Western population overwhelmingly lives in cities.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Alpers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250076</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Alpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250076</guid>
		<description>This is implicit in some of what&#039;s been said already, but the four time zones do not really divide the country into equal geographical slices.  First, the Eastern Time Zone extends further to the east than it otherwise would, so that Maine does not end up in the Atlantic Time Zone. And, due to the orientation of the Eastern seabord, much of what would be the south eastern corner of that time zone is in the Atlantic

Similarly, the Pacific time zone starts in the Pacific Ocean.  

I&#039;m not sure what the actual U.S. land areas of the time zones are in square miles (someone must have calculated this), but glancing at &lt;a href=&quot;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Timezones2008.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this map&lt;/a&gt; makes it clear that the two middle time zones contain more land in the US than the Eastern and Pacific time zones, with Central Time taking up the greatest space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is implicit in some of what&#8217;s been said already, but the four time zones do not really divide the country into equal geographical slices.  First, the Eastern Time Zone extends further to the east than it otherwise would, so that Maine does not end up in the Atlantic Time Zone. And, due to the orientation of the Eastern seabord, much of what would be the south eastern corner of that time zone is in the Atlantic</p>

	<p>Similarly, the Pacific time zone starts in the Pacific Ocean.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the actual U.S. land areas of the time zones are in square miles (someone must have calculated this), but glancing at <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Timezones2008.png" rel="nofollow">this map</a> makes it clear that the two middle time zones contain more land in the US than the Eastern and Pacific time zones, with Central Time taking up the greatest space.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Rubard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250075</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Rubard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250075</guid>
		<description>Although I imagine some such thought has already occurred to many people reading this post, I invite people to consider &lt;a href=&quot;http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=714986&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these time zone population statistics&lt;/a&gt;, then extrapolate back in time, then consider the question of proportional vs. regional representation a la House/Senate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Although I imagine some such thought has already occurred to many people reading this post, I invite people to consider <a href="http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=714986" rel="nofollow">these time zone population statistics</a>, then extrapolate back in time, then consider the question of proportional vs. regional representation a la House/Senate.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250073</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250073</guid>
		<description>Not that I&#039;m proud of associating him with my home town, but Hoover&#039;s residence when nominated and serving was Palo Alto (actually the Stanford Campus).  I think I even went to look at his house once.

Made part of his fortune slant drilling in Bodie, and you can&#039;t get much more Western (or more crooked) than that.  Unless you count the other parts of his fortune that he made in China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not that I&#8217;m proud of associating him with my home town, but Hoover&#8217;s residence when nominated and serving was Palo Alto (actually the Stanford Campus).  I think I even went to look at his house once.</p>

	<p>Made part of his fortune slant drilling in Bodie, and you can&#8217;t get much more Western (or more crooked) than that.  Unless you count the other parts of his fortune that he made in China.</p>
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		<title>By: christian h.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/08/22/east-coast-bias/comment-page-1/#comment-250067</link>
		<dc:creator>christian h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7495#comment-250067</guid>
		<description>The fact is, the best candidates come from the heartland. Oops, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sadlyno.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrong blog&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The fact is, the best candidates come from the heartland. Oops, <a href="http://www.sadlyno.com" rel="nofollow">wrong blog</a>.</p>
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