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	<title>Comments on: Just a thought</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-252145</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-252145</guid>
		<description>I always thought Democrats had trouble with swing voters because they tend to be predominantly white, not in a union, and somewhere above the poverty line.  Using antidotal evidence, my family members didn’t start voting Democrat until they reached the middle class / upper middle class tax bracket.  The cost associated with the Democrat proposed social programs was being paid out but they never seemed to qualify for the benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always thought Democrats had trouble with swing voters because they tend to be predominantly white, not in a union, and somewhere above the poverty line.  Using antidotal evidence, my family members didn&#8217;t start voting Democrat until they reached the middle class / upper middle class tax bracket.  The cost associated with the Democrat proposed social programs was being paid out but they never seemed to qualify for the benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-252062</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-252062</guid>
		<description>McWarmongering McLiar &amp; Mrs. PORKy Pig &#039;08!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>McWarmongering McLiar &#038; Mrs. <span class="caps">POR</span>Ky Pig &#8216;08!</p>
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		<title>By: J Thomas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251853</link>
		<dc:creator>J Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251853</guid>
		<description>Is this a buying opportunity on Intrade or would it be better to wait for even more absurd odds?

Is there enough liquidity to do arbitrage against other markets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is this a buying opportunity on Intrade or would it be better to wait for even more absurd odds?</p>

	<p>Is there enough liquidity to do arbitrage against other markets?</p>
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		<title>By: Eamonn Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251837</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamonn Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251837</guid>
		<description>Calling her ‘Lying Sarah’ is all well and good. But here&#039;s a better one: Intrade Market Odds have Obama-Biden at 48.5  and McCain-Palin at  51.1 .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Calling her &#8216;Lying Sarah&#8217; is all well and good. But here&#8217;s a better one: Intrade Market Odds have Obama-Biden at 48.5  and McCain-Palin at  51.1 .</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251690</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 07:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251690</guid>
		<description>James Kroeger, listen,
&lt;i&gt;Democrats can certainly advocate increasing the government’s share of the economy without also necessarily being Marxist control freaks.&lt;/i&gt;

Of course they can and they do, but they are in a bind, because they too are anti-government/pro-capitalist. 

Republican says: the government (except the &quot;defense&quot; part) is evil, so lets&#039; cut it, kill it. 
Democrat says: yes, the government is evil, but let&#039;s nevertheless expend it a bit, for the sake of capitalism. 
Which slogan is catchier, more convincing? 

There is no mainstream ideological force, no soc1alist party (and for structural reasons can&#039;t be) that says: &quot;redistribution is good, more government/public property is good&quot;. If there were, the Democrats would happily occupy their normal niche, arguing: the libertarians  have some good ideas and the soc1alists have some good ideas, so let&#039;s mix them together and find a compromise, the &quot;third way&quot;, the middle road. But without soc1alists Democratic &quot;middle road&quot; is between the Republicans and abyss. They have to keep steering away from the cliff. They become a moderate wing of the right-wing party, the single ruling party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>James Kroeger, listen,<br />
<i>Democrats can certainly advocate increasing the government&#8217;s share of the economy without also necessarily being Marxist control freaks.</i></p>

	<p>Of course they can and they do, but they are in a bind, because they too are anti-government/pro-capitalist.</p>

	<p>Republican says: the government (except the &#8220;defense&#8221; part) is evil, so lets&#8217; cut it, kill it.<br />
Democrat says: yes, the government is evil, but let&#8217;s nevertheless expend it a bit, for the sake of capitalism.<br />
Which slogan is catchier, more convincing?</p>

	<p>There is no mainstream ideological force, no soc1alist party (and for structural reasons can&#8217;t be) that says: &#8220;redistribution is good, more government/public property is good&#8221;. If there were, the Democrats would happily occupy their normal niche, arguing: the libertarians  have some good ideas and the soc1alists have some good ideas, so let&#8217;s mix them together and find a compromise, the &#8220;third way&#8221;, the middle road. But without soc1alists Democratic &#8220;middle road&#8221; is between the Republicans and abyss. They have to keep steering away from the cliff. They become a moderate wing of the right-wing party, the single ruling party.</p>
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		<title>By: not completely useless</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251680</link>
		<dc:creator>not completely useless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251680</guid>
		<description>John McCain and Sarah Palin: Bridge to Nowhere</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John McCain and Sarah Palin: Bridge to Nowhere</p>
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		<title>By: James Kroeger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251679</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kroeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251679</guid>
		<description>Re:  Jim Austin link in comment#10...

It appears as though Prof. Haidt is saying that he believes Democrats have been unable to appeal to swing-voters because they have not created for themselves a moral identity that can compete with the moral identity that the Republicans wrap around themselves.  That is true as far as it goes, I suppose, but I think it is wrong to suggest that the reason &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; swing-voters do not perceive the Democrats to have an appealing moral identity is because because they do not have one, or because they are not interested in having one.  The contrast in moral identity is created by the constant finger-pointing sanctimony of our modern-day Pharisees: the Republican Christian.  That is the part of this problem that Democrats need to fully understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re:  Jim Austin link in comment#10&#8230;</p>

	<p>It appears as though Prof. Haidt is saying that he believes Democrats have been unable to appeal to swing-voters because they have not created for themselves a moral identity that can compete with the moral identity that the Republicans wrap around themselves.  That is true as far as it goes, I suppose, but I think it is wrong to suggest that the reason <i>why</i> swing-voters do not perceive the Democrats to have an appealing moral identity is because because they do not have one, or because they are not interested in having one.  The contrast in moral identity is created by the constant finger-pointing sanctimony of our modern-day Pharisees: the Republican Christian.  That is the part of this problem that Democrats need to fully understand.</p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251678</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251678</guid>
		<description>Slocum, you say &quot;That’s my swing-voter position, anyway,&quot; but what you fail to realize is that as a swing voter you&#039;re &quot;a headline-reader and a sound-byte nibbler&quot; and hardly qualified to criticize the almost incomprehensibly clever posters here (I mean, &quot;Sarah Prevaricuda?&quot; My God, the brilliance!).  The most you can do is sadden them at the thought of your unenlightened state, and that&#039;s just cruel. 

&lt;i&gt;Bad&lt;/i&gt; Slocum!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Slocum, you say &#8220;That&#8217;s my swing-voter position, anyway,&#8221; but what you fail to realize is that as a swing voter you&#8217;re &#8220;a headline-reader and a sound-byte nibbler&#8221; and hardly qualified to criticize the almost incomprehensibly clever posters here (I mean, &#8220;Sarah Prevaricuda?&#8221; My God, the brilliance!).  The most you can do is sadden them at the thought of your unenlightened state, and that&#8217;s just cruel.</p>

	<p><i>Bad</i> Slocum!</p>
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		<title>By: virgil xenophon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251677</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251677</guid>
		<description>Does the old British phrase &quot;Too Clever by Half&quot; sound familiar? It should, as it applies to most of those &quot;on the left&quot; who smugly post here. I don&#039;t know why I never cease to be amazed.....I&#039;m a slow learner, I guess. My philosophy of life/politics goes something like this: If one wants to be alerted to the existence of a societal problem, consult the left, as the right has too much of a Chamber of Commerce mentality about the status quo. Thus give an &quot;A&quot; to the left and an &quot;F&quot; to the right. If one wants to know WHY the societal problem exists, it&#039;s best to consult both sides. The left&#039;s single track theory of history, like a stopped clock, is occasionally correct, and the right is as wrong as often as they are right. Give a gentleman&#039;s &quot;C&quot; to both sides. If, however, one then proceeds to ask what course of action should be taken to correct the perceived societal dysfunction, then the &quot;right&quot;
usually earns an &quot;A&quot; and the left an &quot;F&quot; as the left&#039;s &quot;progressive&quot; solutions usually end up in the advocacy of a totalist political/social
schema inemicable to liberty and freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Does the old British phrase &#8220;Too Clever by Half&#8221; sound familiar? It should, as it applies to most of those &#8220;on the left&#8221; who smugly post here. I don&#8217;t know why I never cease to be amazed&#8230;..I&#8217;m a slow learner, I guess. My philosophy of life/politics goes something like this: If one wants to be alerted to the existence of a societal problem, consult the left, as the right has too much of a Chamber of Commerce mentality about the status quo. Thus give an &#8220;A&#8221; to the left and an &#8220;F&#8221; to the right. If one wants to know <span class="caps">WHY</span> the societal problem exists, it&#8217;s best to consult both sides. The left&#8217;s single track theory of history, like a stopped clock, is occasionally correct, and the right is as wrong as often as they are right. Give a gentleman&#8217;s &#8220;C&#8221; to both sides. If, however, one then proceeds to ask what course of action should be taken to correct the perceived societal dysfunction, then the &#8220;right&#8221;<br />
usually earns an &#8220;A&#8221; and the left an &#8220;F&#8221; as the left&#8217;s &#8220;progressive&#8221; solutions usually end up in the advocacy of a totalist political/social<br />
schema inemicable to liberty and freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: shtove</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251674</link>
		<dc:creator>shtove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251674</guid>
		<description>&quot;Calling her ‘Lying Sarah’ is all well and good. But we need something snappier.&quot;

That &quot;we&quot; is so cosy and snuggly and smug.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Calling her &#8216;Lying Sarah&#8217; is all well and good. But we need something snappier.&#8221;</p>

	<p>That &#8220;we&#8221; is so cosy and snuggly and smug.</p>
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		<title>By: James Kroeger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251672</link>
		<dc:creator>James Kroeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251672</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;They can’t do it because the Democrats are not soc1alists, they are liberals, just like the Republicans&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;You haven&#039;t explained why you believe it is impossible for The Democrats to nurture a collective self-identity roughly = &quot;we&#039;re not &lt;i&gt;Republicans&lt;/i&gt;&quot; without also necessarily embracing some kind of &#039;pure socialism&#039; ideology.

Democrats can certainly advocate increasing the government&#039;s share of the economy without also necessarily being Marxist control freaks.  The idea is to move the balance between public and private sectors in a more beneficial direction.  We&#039;ve had the &#039;less is better&#039; crowd running things for quite a while and they&#039;ve improved almost nothing for the American people, economically.  The answer to less-is-better is not more-is-better, but rather &lt;i&gt;achieve-the-proper-balance&lt;/i&gt;.

In the hands of the Democrats, it would be possible for the federal government to achieve most of the idealistic goals that Dems want to achieve for The Average American by simply being a big purchaser of various goods and services.  If it were willing, the federal government could increase public INVESTMENT levels enough to create a modest labor shortage, where there are substantially more jobs available than there are people to fill them.  There would be no need for minimum wage legislation, welfare programs, unemployment insurance, etc.

One exception: health care.  A more purely socialist approach, like Britain&#039;s National Health Service, would provide the American people in general with a dramatic improvement in the &lt;b&gt;quality&lt;/b&gt; of health care services.  It makes no more sense for Americans to embrace private health care services than it would for us to replace our current public police/fire protection institutions with privately-owned police/fire protection providers.  Just imagine: families in need of a police officer would first have to call all the local police protection companies to compare their prices before deciding on one to call for emergency assistance.  Or in another variation, if the police arrive at the scene of a crime, they would first seek to determine if all those present have kept up with their  police insurance premiums.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><i>They can&#8217;t do it because the Democrats are not soc1alists, they are liberals, just like the Republicans</i></blockquote>You haven&#8217;t explained why you believe it is impossible for The Democrats to nurture a collective self-identity roughly = &#8220;we&#8217;re not <i>Republicans</i>&#8221; without also necessarily embracing some kind of &#8216;pure socialism&#8217; ideology.</p>

	<p>Democrats can certainly advocate increasing the government&#8217;s share of the economy without also necessarily being Marxist control freaks.  The idea is to move the balance between public and private sectors in a more beneficial direction.  We&#8217;ve had the &#8216;less is better&#8217; crowd running things for quite a while and they&#8217;ve improved almost nothing for the American people, economically.  The answer to less-is-better is not more-is-better, but rather <i>achieve-the-proper-balance</i>.</p>

	<p>In the hands of the Democrats, it would be possible for the federal government to achieve most of the idealistic goals that Dems want to achieve for The Average American by simply being a big purchaser of various goods and services.  If it were willing, the federal government could increase public <span class="caps">INVESTMENT</span> levels enough to create a modest labor shortage, where there are substantially more jobs available than there are people to fill them.  There would be no need for minimum wage legislation, welfare programs, unemployment insurance, etc.</p>

	<p>One exception: health care.  A more purely socialist approach, like Britain&#8217;s National Health Service, would provide the American people in general with a dramatic improvement in the <b>quality</b> of health care services.  It makes no more sense for Americans to embrace private health care services than it would for us to replace our current public police/fire protection institutions with privately-owned police/fire protection providers.  Just imagine: families in need of a police officer would first have to call all the local police protection companies to compare their prices before deciding on one to call for emergency assistance.  Or in another variation, if the police arrive at the scene of a crime, they would first seek to determine if all those present have kept up with their  police insurance premiums.</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251671</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251671</guid>
		<description>But I totally kicked booty on Life Satisfaction and Mental Health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But I totally kicked booty on Life Satisfaction and Mental Health.</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251669</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251669</guid>
		<description>Re: the link in 10. He may be right, but I still like my &quot;European Enlightenment&quot; values (I actually happen to think that these values are a lot more universal and pre date the 16th century, just that Europeans like to give themselves credit for everything) and my Mill.

Anyways. I took one of those little quizzes. It seems I care about &quot;Harm&quot; as much as Liberals, about &quot;Fairness&quot; less than both Liberals and Conservatives, about &quot;Loyalty&quot; slightly more than Liberals (no finking to the teacher!) and less than Conservatives (unless it&#039;s really bad),  and both &quot;Authority&quot; and &quot;Purity&quot; much less than both those groups. I really do have some morals, somewhere...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re: the link in 10. He may be right, but I still like my &#8220;European Enlightenment&#8221; values (I actually happen to think that these values are a lot more universal and pre date the 16th century, just that Europeans like to give themselves credit for everything) and my Mill.</p>

	<p>Anyways. I took one of those little quizzes. It seems I care about &#8220;Harm&#8221; as much as Liberals, about &#8220;Fairness&#8221; less than both Liberals and Conservatives, about &#8220;Loyalty&#8221; slightly more than Liberals (no finking to the teacher!) and less than Conservatives (unless it&#8217;s really bad),  and both &#8220;Authority&#8221; and &#8220;Purity&#8221; much less than both those groups. I really do have some morals, somewhere&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251667</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251667</guid>
		<description>The link in #10 sounds fine as far as it goes, with one caveat: it would&#039;ve been all well and good if it was about a normal country like India, Iran or Brazil, but for the sole superpower with 10000 nuclear weapons - all this tribalism, worshiping the military and so on is just not acceptable. Keep the weapons and get rid of the tribalism, or keep the tribalism but then get rid of the weapons. Or, better, get rid of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The link in #10 sounds fine as far as it goes, with one caveat: it would&#8217;ve been all well and good if it was about a normal country like India, Iran or Brazil, but for the sole superpower with 10000 nuclear weapons &#8211; all this tribalism, worshiping the military and so on is just not acceptable. Keep the weapons and get rid of the tribalism, or keep the tribalism but then get rid of the weapons. Or, better, get rid of both.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Hart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/09/11/just-a-thought/comment-page-1/#comment-251665</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=7705#comment-251665</guid>
		<description>Caribouda?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Caribouda?</p>
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