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	<title>Comments on: Building up the Iron Cage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Kalkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257570</link>
		<dc:creator>Kalkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257570</guid>
		<description>Well, I already own Khalidi&#039;s book, though I haven&#039;t yet got around to reading it so I can&#039;t honestly recommend it one way or the other.  I do, however, have a suggestion here:

&lt;i&gt;I am using my own standard Amazon ID here, but if someone can nominate a worthwhile organization with an Amazon ID which is really likely to annoy Sean Hannity, Michael Goldfarb etc, let me know, and I will amend accordingly.&lt;/i&gt;

One can make Amazon purchases via a link on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.socialistworker.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Socialist Worker&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s website which will benefit the International Socialist Organization, a Trotskyist group (of which, full disclosure, I am a member).  The Amazon link is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2F&amp;tag=socialistwork-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, though I&#039;m not sure it will work correctly outside the context of the SW website.  

David Horowitz&#039; &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Read.aspx?guid=87b4d73d-7074-473e-b12c-fc82b0a7f7ad&amp;rating=3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;endorsement&lt;/a&gt;:
&quot;The International Socialist Organization is a group of Marxist loonies who hate America and are deluded into thinking they can set up a dictatorship of the proletariat in this country, destroying its freedoms and making it vulnerable to the Islamo-fascists they admire. I have personally been the target of their violent attacks and disruptions on numerous occasions.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, I already own Khalidi&#8217;s book, though I haven&#8217;t yet got around to reading it so I can&#8217;t honestly recommend it one way or the other.  I do, however, have a suggestion here:</p>

	<p><i>I am using my own standard Amazon ID here, but if someone can nominate a worthwhile organization with an Amazon ID which is really likely to annoy Sean Hannity, Michael Goldfarb etc, let me know, and I will amend accordingly.</i></p>

	<p>One can make Amazon purchases via a link on <a href="http://www.socialistworker.org" rel="nofollow">Socialist Worker</a>&#8217;s website which will benefit the International Socialist Organization, a Trotskyist group (of which, full disclosure, I am a member).  The Amazon link is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&#038;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2F&#038;tag=socialistwork-20&#038;linkCode=ur2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">this</a>, though I&#8217;m not sure it will work correctly outside the context of the SW website.</p>

	<p>David Horowitz&#8217; <a href="https://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Read.aspx?guid=87b4d73d-7074-473e-b12c-fc82b0a7f7ad&#038;rating=3" rel="nofollow">endorsement</a>:<br />
&#8220;The International Socialist Organization is a group of Marxist loonies who hate America and are deluded into thinking they can set up a dictatorship of the proletariat in this country, destroying its freedoms and making it vulnerable to the Islamo-fascists they admire. I have personally been the target of their violent attacks and disruptions on numerous occasions.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Laleh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257500</link>
		<dc:creator>Laleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257500</guid>
		<description>That came out wrong. He is very moderate - which can be annoying.  But he is also brilliant.  And eloquent. And open-minded.  And very very funny.  And self-deprecating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That came out wrong. He is very moderate &#8211; which can be annoying.  But he is also brilliant.  And eloquent. And open-minded.  And very very funny.  And self-deprecating.</p>
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		<title>By: Laleh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257498</link>
		<dc:creator>Laleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257498</guid>
		<description>Rashid was my PhD supervisor, and he is -if anything- annoyingly &quot;moderate&quot;.   I hate that word, but hey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Rashid was my PhD supervisor, and he is <del>if anything</del> annoyingly &#8220;moderate&#8221;.   I hate that word, but hey.</p>
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		<title>By: Otto Pohl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257476</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto Pohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257476</guid>
		<description>Only in the US where both political parties are committed to unconditional support of Israel could a man like Khalidi be viewed by anybody as a &quot;Radical&quot; rather than a moderate. I suppose the gulit by association means I can not run for president since Khalidi was the supervisor of my supervisor. But, I have criticized Israeli ethnic cleansing, apartheid and other crimes against humanity enough on my own that I do not think it matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Only in the US where both political parties are committed to unconditional support of Israel could a man like Khalidi be viewed by anybody as a &#8220;Radical&#8221; rather than a moderate. I suppose the gulit by association means I can not run for president since Khalidi was the supervisor of my supervisor. But, I have criticized Israeli ethnic cleansing, apartheid and other crimes against humanity enough on my own that I do not think it matters.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257458</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257458</guid>
		<description>Wow, this election is bringing &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; the crazies out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wow, this election is bringing <i>all</i> the crazies out.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257451</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257451</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Dan Simon sez&lt;/i&gt;
If there’s one thing that’s completely beyond the pale here at Crooked Timber, it’s intolerance of anti-Semitism.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So I take that to mean that those of us who’re not in love with Netanyahuism (and American neo-conservatism) either, are, like, anti-Self or something?

Sheesh.
^_^J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><i>Dan Simon sez</i><br />
If there&#8217;s one thing that&#8217;s completely beyond the pale here at Crooked Timber, it&#8217;s intolerance of anti-Semitism.</blockquote></p>

	<p>So I take that to mean that those of us who&#8217;re not in love with Netanyahuism (and American neo-conservatism) either, are, like, anti-Self or something?</p>

	<p>Sheesh.<br />
<sup>_</sup>J.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257449</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257449</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, Dan Simon&#039;s idiocy is not all that unusual.  The Australian Jewish News has actually partially institutionalized it: there are jews (ie, Likudniks and their supporters) and the &#039;jewish-born&#039;. I am proudly the latter. That makes me anti-semitic, in the parallel universe of Simon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Unfortunately, Dan Simon&#8217;s idiocy is not all that unusual.  The Australian Jewish News has actually partially institutionalized it: there are jews (ie, Likudniks and their supporters) and the &#8216;jewish-born&#8217;. I am proudly the latter. That makes me anti-semitic, in the parallel universe of Simon.</p>
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		<title>By: Watson Aname</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257447</link>
		<dc:creator>Watson Aname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257447</guid>
		<description>Dan, are you intentionally being obtuse?   Claiming someone was opportunistic isn&#039;t remotely close to claiming they aid or exert  &quot;sinister control over the US government&quot;.

Khaladi may well be wrong in the analysis, and he may be exhibiting bias, but it&#039;s witless to claim that statement only bears interpretation as anti-Semitic.  Again, critique of US and/or Israeli policy is not inherently anti-Semitic.    Do you have difficult with this basic fact?  Is it possible in your mind that someone might decry Israels place in US foreign policy without being an anti-semite?  There is nothing difficult about this, really

Perhaps I&#039;m only feeding a troll here, in which case, apologies to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dan, are you intentionally being obtuse?   Claiming someone was opportunistic isn&#8217;t remotely close to claiming they aid or exert  &#8220;sinister control over the US government&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Khaladi may well be wrong in the analysis, and he may be exhibiting bias, but it&#8217;s witless to claim that statement only bears interpretation as anti-Semitic.  Again, critique of US and/or Israeli policy is not inherently anti-Semitic.    Do you have difficult with this basic fact?  Is it possible in your mind that someone might decry Israels place in US foreign policy without being an anti-semite?  There is nothing difficult about this, really</p>

	<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m only feeding a troll here, in which case, apologies to all.</p>
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		<title>By: desperate dan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257444</link>
		<dc:creator>desperate dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257444</guid>
		<description> snivel. slur. smear. innuendo. distortion. snivel. slime. &lt;h3&gt;ANTI-SEMITE ! ! !&lt;/h3&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>snivel. slur. smear. innuendo. distortion. snivel. slime. <h3><span class="caps">ANTI</span>-SEMITE ! ! !</h3></p>
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		<title>By: Watson Aname</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257442</link>
		<dc:creator>Watson Aname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257442</guid>
		<description>Now Dan, surely you don&#039;t believe the commenters and posters, here are so stupid as to confuse themselves into thinking that  critique of US and/or Israeli policy and objectives in the middle east as necessarily anti-Semitic do you?  There is more than enough of that nonsense being propagated without your shoveling it here.  

I don&#039;t know whether Khalidi has actually stated any anti-Semitic views.  Your quote, particularly without context, shows nothing of the sort, rendering your attempt at sarcasm embarrassingly inept. I haven&#039;t enough information to form an opinion on his views of Jewish people, but do note that any Palestinian has plenty of call for sentiments against the state of Israel and of US middle east policy quite separable from sentiments against the Jewish peoples.  Also, he is being attacked from quite a number or disreputable sources, which proves nothing but is usually a good sign the the claims are at best, distorted if not groundless.

I suspect you don&#039;t believe a word of what you wrote, but on the off chance that you really are as illiterate as your misrepresentation of the quote suggests, I&#039;ll note for  yourself then, or any other trying to work in a misreading of what I&#039;ve said, that everything I point out above holds regardless of how much of the balance of blame for Israel and Palestine&#039;s relationship lies on the part of the Palestinians.   I wouldn&#039;t want to leave any opening for libeling me myself as anti-Semitic which , though laughable, seems to be the first resort in so many related discussions.

Which is really the point of this reply.  It annoys me that it&#039;s become almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion about these and related topics without it being nearly immediately drowned out by moronic claims and counter-claims of anti-Semitism.  Not, of course, that such positions don&#039;t really exist.  You&#039;d never know it from the discourse, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Now Dan, surely you don&#8217;t believe the commenters and posters, here are so stupid as to confuse themselves into thinking that  critique of US and/or Israeli policy and objectives in the middle east as necessarily anti-Semitic do you?  There is more than enough of that nonsense being propagated without your shoveling it here.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know whether Khalidi has actually stated any anti-Semitic views.  Your quote, particularly without context, shows nothing of the sort, rendering your attempt at sarcasm embarrassingly inept. I haven&#8217;t enough information to form an opinion on his views of Jewish people, but do note that any Palestinian has plenty of call for sentiments against the state of Israel and of US middle east policy quite separable from sentiments against the Jewish peoples.  Also, he is being attacked from quite a number or disreputable sources, which proves nothing but is usually a good sign the the claims are at best, distorted if not groundless.</p>

	<p>I suspect you don&#8217;t believe a word of what you wrote, but on the off chance that you really are as illiterate as your misrepresentation of the quote suggests, I&#8217;ll note for  yourself then, or any other trying to work in a misreading of what I&#8217;ve said, that everything I point out above holds regardless of how much of the balance of blame for Israel and Palestine&#8217;s relationship lies on the part of the Palestinians.   I wouldn&#8217;t want to leave any opening for libeling me myself as anti-Semitic which , though laughable, seems to be the first resort in so many related discussions.</p>

	<p>Which is really the point of this reply.  It annoys me that it&#8217;s become almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion about these and related topics without it being nearly immediately drowned out by moronic claims and counter-claims of anti-Semitism.  Not, of course, that such positions don&#8217;t really exist.  You&#8217;d never know it from the discourse, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257440</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257440</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see how that is an anti-Semitic statement, it seems a reasonable way of interpreting the chain of events mentioned, whether it is accurate or not is another question that requires knowledge of the motives the people in question, which is always going to be speculative at some level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t see how that is an anti-Semitic statement, it seems a reasonable way of interpreting the chain of events mentioned, whether it is accurate or not is another question that requires knowledge of the motives the people in question, which is always going to be speculative at some level.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257439</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257439</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t detect the anti-Semitism in Dan Simon&#039;s excerpt, but it did make me look at the old thread he referenced and notice that in the site redesign paragraph breaks appear to have been lost, making everyone look just that little bit crazier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I couldn&#8217;t detect the anti-Semitism in Dan Simon&#8217;s excerpt, but it did make me look at the old thread he referenced and notice that in the site redesign paragraph breaks appear to have been lost, making everyone look just that little bit crazier.</p>
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		<title>By: banned commenter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257438</link>
		<dc:creator>banned commenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257438</guid>
		<description>[more nasty snivelling from Dan Simon]

Dan - you know you are banned from commenting on my posts, This is a final warning - one more offense and I move for a sitewide ban. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[more nasty snivelling from Dan Simon]</p>

	<p>Dan &#8211; you know you are banned from commenting on my posts, This is a final warning &#8211; one more offense and I move for a sitewide ban.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter H</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257437</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257437</guid>
		<description>Also, there&#039;s a new Facebook &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=7e148eede0abaaa104e372e73b6b7892&amp;refurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Drashid%2Bkhalidi%26n%3D-1%26k%3D200000010%26sf%3Dr%26init%3Dq%26sid%3D7e148eede0abaaa104e372e73b6b7892&amp;gid=31730363045&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;group&lt;/a&gt; in support of Rashid Khalidi:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, there&#8217;s a new Facebook <a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=7e148eede0abaaa104e372e73b6b7892&#038;refurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Drashid%2Bkhalidi%26n%3D-1%26k%3D200000010%26sf%3Dr%26init%3Dq%26sid%3D7e148eede0abaaa104e372e73b6b7892&#038;gid=31730363045" rel="nofollow">group</a> in support of Rashid Khalidi:</p>
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		<title>By: Watson Aname</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/31/building-up-the-iron-cage/comment-page-1/#comment-257435</link>
		<dc:creator>Watson Aname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=8353#comment-257435</guid>
		<description>On the contrary, Righteous Bubba, I think that&#039;s pretty much exactly the level of complexity and understanding exhibited by many pushing the “Culture War” from the right, these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the contrary, Righteous Bubba, I think that&#8217;s pretty much exactly the level of complexity and understanding exhibited by many pushing the &#8220;Culture War&#8221; from the right, these days.</p>
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