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	<title>Comments on: Tintin Coming Out In America?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: roac</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-264024</link>
		<dc:creator>roac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-264024</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe this thread is winding down with a discussion of owls, introduced by my casual parenthesis in no. 20.  The bird under consideration is the Tawny Owl, &lt;i&gt;Strix aluco&lt;/i&gt;, concerning which Wikipedia says:

&lt;i&gt;The commonly heard contact call is a shrill, kew-wick but the male has a quavering advertising song hoo ... ho, ho, hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo. William Shakespeare immortalised this owl&#039;s song in Love&#039;s Labour&#039;s Lost (Act 5, Scene 2) as &quot;Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-whit; Tu-who, a merry note, While greasy Joan doth keel the pot&quot;, but this stereotypical call is actually a duet, with the female making the kew-wick sound, and the male responding hooo.&lt;/i&gt;

As stated by Chris Bertram.  This is a European bird not known to me personally.  The North American equivalent is the Barred Owl, &lt;i&gt;Strix varia,&lt;/i&gt; which hoots eight times in two groups of four with the stress on the last in each group.  No sexual difference in the call that Wiki or I know of.  In the Great Horned Owl &lt;i&gt;Bubo virginianus,&lt;/i&gt; males and females both hoot but you can tell the sexes apart by pitch and rhythm.  I have heard pairs calling back and forth in December, which is when they set up housekeeping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t believe this thread is winding down with a discussion of owls, introduced by my casual parenthesis in no. 20.  The bird under consideration is the Tawny Owl, <i>Strix aluco</i>, concerning which Wikipedia says:</p>

	<p><i>The commonly heard contact call is a shrill, kew-wick but the male has a quavering advertising song hoo &#8230; ho, ho, hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo. William Shakespeare immortalised this owl&#8217;s song in Love&#8217;s Labour&#8217;s Lost (Act 5, Scene 2) as &#8220;Then nightly sings the staring owl, Tu-whit; Tu-who, a merry note, While greasy Joan doth keel the pot&#8221;, but this stereotypical call is actually a duet, with the female making the kew-wick sound, and the male responding hooo.</i></p>

	<p>As stated by Chris Bertram.  This is a European bird not known to me personally.  The North American equivalent is the Barred Owl, <i>Strix varia,</i> which hoots eight times in two groups of four with the stress on the last in each group.  No sexual difference in the call that Wiki or I know of.  In the Great Horned Owl <i>Bubo virginianus,</i> males and females both hoot but you can tell the sexes apart by pitch and rhythm.  I have heard pairs calling back and forth in December, which is when they set up housekeeping.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ejh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263936</link>
		<dc:creator>ejh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263936</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Could i buy that asterix in icelandic??????&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/manylanguages/iceland.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yes&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Could i buy that asterix in icelandic??????</i></p>

	<p><a href="http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/manylanguages/iceland.htm" rel="nofollow">Yes</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: belle le triste</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263934</link>
		<dc:creator>belle le triste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263934</guid>
		<description>yes, one of them ask  &quot;to wit?&quot; and the other replies &quot;to woo!&quot; 

it&#039;s very civilised and romantic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>yes, one of them ask  &#8220;to wit?&#8221; and the other replies &#8220;to woo!&#8221;</p>

	<p>it&#8217;s very civilised and romantic!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263932</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263932</guid>
		<description>_Don’t owls go turwit-turwoo?_

No they don&#039;t ... at least not singly.  Males make one sound and females respond with another (or vice versa).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>Don&#8217;t owls go turwit-turwoo?</em></p>

	<p>No they don&#8217;t &#8230; at least not singly.  Males make one sound and females respond with another (or vice versa).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jpeeps</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263930</link>
		<dc:creator>jpeeps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263930</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t owls go turwit-turwoo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t owls go turwit-turwoo?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263878</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263878</guid>
		<description>Grew up low-end professional class in a mixed (working class &amp; lower-income pmc) suburb and read Tintin as a kid in the &#039;70s; have a friend from a more solidly working-class and urban background in that area (Youngstown --dunno if people regard that as Midwestern) who knew the comics too; my wife says that she woulda recognized the character as well.  Liked the stories as a kid, although I recognized the racism in &lt;i&gt;The Red Sea Sharks&lt;/i&gt;; still hold the art in high regard.

I pronounce the vowels as best I can in the French fashion because I would feel silly saying &quot;tin, tin.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Grew up low-end professional class in a mixed (working class &#038; lower-income pmc) suburb and read Tintin as a kid in the &#8216;70s; have a friend from a more solidly working-class and urban background in that area (Youngstown&#8212;dunno if people regard that as Midwestern) who knew the comics too; my wife says that she woulda recognized the character as well.  Liked the stories as a kid, although I recognized the racism in <i>The Red Sea Sharks</i>; still hold the art in high regard.</p>

	<p>I pronounce the vowels as best I can in the French fashion because I would feel silly saying &#8220;tin, tin.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263862</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263862</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But there’s more than one kind of subtext, and one kind is where some readers—like, say, me—look at the text and say, “this is what I like, this is what I want.” And maybe what I like is hot guys taking off their shirts and rescuing each other. &lt;/i&gt;

Well I liked imagining myself going to a boarding school in the Swiss Alps and talking to fauns, but I don&#039;t think that I could make an academic career by writing how The Chalet Girls School or the Narnia books really clearly have a Tracy W sub-text.  Especially since I was born after the works in question were written. There are things in books that clearly were put there by their authors - eg the Christainity subtext in Narnia, and I find analyses of them far more interesting than ones that are based only on the reader&#039;s biases. 

Also, I think that whatever drives slash fiction as a particular form of fanfiction is independent to the work itself. Eg there&#039;s slash about the male characters in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, despite the obvious existance in that TV show of several sexually-active, strong-minded women. (I am not launching a general criticism of slash fiction here, or slash-fiction about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I have no survey data to hand but I suspect it displays the same range of quality as any other type of fiction, I am merely talking about the decision to write slash set in a particular show or book or movie).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But there&#8217;s more than one kind of subtext, and one kind is where some readers&#8212;like, say, me&#8212;look at the text and say, &#8220;this is what I like, this is what I want.&#8221; And maybe what I like is hot guys taking off their shirts and rescuing each other. </i></p>

	<p>Well I liked imagining myself going to a boarding school in the Swiss Alps and talking to fauns, but I don&#8217;t think that I could make an academic career by writing how The Chalet Girls School or the Narnia books really clearly have a Tracy W sub-text.  Especially since I was born after the works in question were written. There are things in books that clearly were put there by their authors &#8211; eg the Christainity subtext in Narnia, and I find analyses of them far more interesting than ones that are based only on the reader&#8217;s biases.</p>

	<p>Also, I think that whatever drives slash fiction as a particular form of fanfiction is independent to the work itself. Eg there&#8217;s slash about the male characters in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, despite the obvious existance in that TV show of several sexually-active, strong-minded women. (I am not launching a general criticism of slash fiction here, or slash-fiction about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I have no survey data to hand but I suspect it displays the same range of quality as any other type of fiction, I am merely talking about the decision to write slash set in a particular show or book or movie).</p>
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		<title>By: bob kroonenberg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263840</link>
		<dc:creator>bob kroonenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263840</guid>
		<description>could i buy that asterix in icelandic??????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>could i buy that asterix in icelandic??????</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263807</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263807</guid>
		<description>Doctor Science: Sure, but part of that fantasy is being able to take part in, and be swashbuckling and daring in, an adult world. Part of the pleasure of reading them for me was getting those grownup jokes and allusions. They&#039;re still quite enjoyable to read now, but nowhere near as exciting, since I now have the disadvantage of being absolutely sure that the adult world is nothing like Tintin makes out it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Doctor Science: Sure, but part of that fantasy is being able to take part in, and be swashbuckling and daring in, an adult world. Part of the pleasure of reading them for me was getting those grownup jokes and allusions. They&#8217;re still quite enjoyable to read now, but nowhere near as exciting, since I now have the disadvantage of being absolutely sure that the adult world is nothing like Tintin makes out it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Science</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263804</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263804</guid>
		<description>Ben:
&lt;i&gt;Believable fantasy for young boys.&lt;/i&gt;

But Tintin isn&#039;t for boys. It&#039;s *about* a boy, and the books are marketed in the US as being &quot;for boys&quot;, but on its native turf Tintin is more &quot;for children, but with jokes in there only the grownups will get.&quot; Part of the goofy appeal is that it&#039;s a young boy&#039;s fantasy, but set in an adult-ish world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ben:<br />
<i>Believable fantasy for young boys.</i></p>

	<p>But Tintin isn&#8217;t for boys. It&#8217;s <strong>about</strong> a boy, and the books are marketed in the US as being &#8220;for boys&#8221;, but on its native turf Tintin is more &#8220;for children, but with jokes in there only the grownups will get.&#8221; Part of the goofy appeal is that it&#8217;s a young boy&#8217;s fantasy, but set in an adult-ish world.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263796</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263796</guid>
		<description>I grew up in Canterbury, England, and I read avidly all the Tintin, the Asterix,  &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; all the Willard Price books; I never noticed any kind of homo-erotic subtext in them, though that could be down to the fact that at the age I was reading the books, I didn&#039;t notice much of a homo-erotic subtext in anything.

Looking back, Asterix only verged on camp-for-comedy&#039;s sake rather than as any strong intimation of homosexuality (I&#039;m thinking of Roman legionnaires jumping into each other&#039;s arms on being frightened, and so on).

It&#039;s true that Tintin never really fraternised with women all that much, but as has been mentioned, I think that&#039;s more to do with the fact the character is a boy-as-man. He is old enough to travel legitimately, and have adventures, but looks very young, and has a definite (and somewhat inexplicable) naivety. Believable fantasy for young boys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I grew up in Canterbury, England, and I read avidly all the Tintin, the Asterix,  <i>and</i> all the Willard Price books; I never noticed any kind of homo-erotic subtext in them, though that could be down to the fact that at the age I was reading the books, I didn&#8217;t notice much of a homo-erotic subtext in anything.</p>

	<p>Looking back, Asterix only verged on camp-for-comedy&#8217;s sake rather than as any strong intimation of homosexuality (I&#8217;m thinking of Roman legionnaires jumping into each other&#8217;s arms on being frightened, and so on).</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s true that Tintin never really fraternised with women all that much, but as has been mentioned, I think that&#8217;s more to do with the fact the character is a boy-as-man. He is old enough to travel legitimately, and have adventures, but looks very young, and has a definite (and somewhat inexplicable) naivety. Believable fantasy for young boys.</p>
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		<title>By: garymar</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263774</link>
		<dc:creator>garymar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263774</guid>
		<description>Well from the comments I would say that TinTin started to “come out” in the USA around the 70s. I grew up in a working class suburb of Detroit in the 60s and first saw an Asterix when my parents took me to Europe in 1967. [Cultural note: my father and I wore suits and ties to take the plane ride. First ride ever in an aeroplane.]I have a vague memory of seeing Tin Tin somewhere as a child, but it was a special treat, probably expensive, that would not be something for a ‘normal’ kid to have.

Our local stores, close enough for kids to walk to, featured Archie comics, Batman and other superheroes, as well as “Classics Illustrated” – The Hunchback of Notre Dame! Moby Dick! The House of Mirth! The Will to Power! for the kids to get some culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well from the comments I would say that TinTin started to &#8220;come out&#8221; in the <span class="caps">USA</span> around the 70s. I grew up in a working class suburb of Detroit in the 60s and first saw an Asterix when my parents took me to Europe in 1967. [Cultural note: my father and I wore suits and ties to take the plane ride. First ride ever in an aeroplane.]I have a vague memory of seeing Tin Tin somewhere as a child, but it was a special treat, probably expensive, that would not be something for a &#8216;normal&#8217; kid to have.</p>

	<p>Our local stores, close enough for kids to walk to, featured Archie comics, Batman and other superheroes, as well as &#8220;Classics Illustrated&#8221; &#8211; The Hunchback of Notre Dame! Moby Dick! The House of Mirth! The Will to Power! for the kids to get some culture.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: strategichamlet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263771</link>
		<dc:creator>strategichamlet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263771</guid>
		<description>&quot;whichever is earliest of cigars of the pharaoh and crab with the golden claws?&quot;

Pharaoh is earlier.  Crab is when Haddock is first introduced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;whichever is earliest of cigars of the pharaoh and crab with the golden claws?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Pharaoh is earlier.  Crab is when Haddock is first introduced.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doctor Science</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263767</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263767</guid>
		<description>And whoa, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0983193/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Simon Pegg as Thompson&lt;/a&gt;. That means either &quot;start your engines&quot; or &quot;run for cover&quot;, depending on your preferences.

vrooooooooooooooom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And whoa, <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0983193/" rel="nofollow">Simon Pegg as Thompson</a>. That means either &#8220;start your engines&#8221; or &#8220;run for cover&#8221;, depending on your preferences.</p>

	<p>vrooooooooooooooom.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kid bitzer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/16/tintin-coming-out-in-america/comment-page-2/#comment-263763</link>
		<dc:creator>kid bitzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9183#comment-263763</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thompson/Thomson is action waiting to happen&quot;

&quot;precisely! or rather: thompson is waiting to action thomson!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Thompson/Thomson is action waiting to happen&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8220;precisely! or rather: thompson is waiting to action thomson!&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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