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	<title>Comments on: Response, Part 1</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: beowulf888</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264662</link>
		<dc:creator>beowulf888</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 06:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264662</guid>
		<description>I think Keith is being a little too harsh on Stross. One of the sub-plots of  &lt;i&gt;Glasshouse&lt;/i&gt; is wonderful love story that takes place in a time when people can morph their bodies into either sex -- or into non-human constructs. I think Glasshouse one of the best science fiction novels -- as well as being one of the best novels of any genre -- that I&#039;ve read in the past decade. And the reason it is works as a novel is because it superimposes the timeless human longings for love and security into a place where memories and identity can be edited (against one&#039;s wishes) and where physical identity can shift. To categorize Stross&#039; work as &quot;space opera&quot; trivializes it and and overlooks its subtlety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think Keith is being a little too harsh on Stross. One of the sub-plots of  <i>Glasshouse</i> is wonderful love story that takes place in a time when people can morph their bodies into either sex&#8212;or into non-human constructs. I think Glasshouse one of the best science fiction novels&#8212;as well as being one of the best novels of any genre&#8212;that I&#8217;ve read in the past decade. And the reason it is works as a novel is because it superimposes the timeless human longings for love and security into a place where memories and identity can be edited (against one&#8217;s wishes) and where physical identity can shift. To categorize Stross&#8217; work as &#8220;space opera&#8221; trivializes it and and overlooks its subtlety.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264639</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264639</guid>
		<description>@39: My hat is off to the many fine British writers of SF. They have, among other virtues, ushered in the true golden age of Space Opera. However, on these shores let me just remind you of: Robert Reed, Kim Stanley Robinson, Michael Swanwick and David Marusek, just off the top of my head. And in a preemptive mood, no Neal Stephenson, probably the most overrated author in the history of the genre, if not the English language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@39: My hat is off to the many fine British writers of SF. They have, among other virtues, ushered in the true golden age of Space Opera. However, on these shores let me just remind you of: Robert Reed, Kim Stanley Robinson, Michael Swanwick and David Marusek, just off the top of my head. And in a preemptive mood, no Neal Stephenson, probably the most overrated author in the history of the genre, if not the English language.</p>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264634</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264634</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As a side note, can anyone tell me why it is that the US is seeing a real dearth of science fiction (bad novelizations from other media excepted) while the UK is seeing a boom&lt;/i&gt;

Stross has  a theory about that:

http://io9.com/5034107/charles-stross-explains-why-uk-scifi-is-more-hopeful-than-us-scifi

&lt;i&gt;The paucity of near-future US scifi is about the country becoming pessimistic, not being able to see the future clearly. There&#039;s a trend in US scifi towards militarism and far-future stuff.&lt;/i&gt;

I suppose in a year or two we should get some Obama-era sci-fi: wonder what that will be like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>As a side note, can anyone tell me why it is that the US is seeing a real dearth of science fiction (bad novelizations from other media excepted) while the UK is seeing a boom</i></p>

	<p>Stross has  a theory about that:</p>

	<p><a href="http://io9.com/5034107/charles-stross-explains-why-uk-scifi-is-more-hopeful-than-us-scifi" rel="nofollow">http://io9.com/5034107/charles-stross-explains-why-uk-scifi-is-more-hopeful-than-us-scifi</a></p>

	<p><i>The paucity of near-future US scifi is about the country becoming pessimistic, not being able to see the future clearly. There&#8217;s a trend in US scifi towards militarism and far-future stuff.</i></p>

	<p>I suppose in a year or two we should get some Obama-era sci-fi: wonder what that will be like.</p>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264610</link>
		<dc:creator>Keir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264610</guid>
		<description>That first para is Ajay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That first para is Ajay.</p>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264609</link>
		<dc:creator>Keir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264609</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;

Well, yes, but Miriam is a worldwalker, for heaven’s sake. She can leave Gruinmarkt even more easily than you could have left India! I thought that Miriam’s reaction was just meant to show that she was a rather spoiled person from a sheltered upbringing – a selfish, high-maintenance prig. She’s basically a grown-up Eustace Scrubb.&lt;/i&gt;

Ah, the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.

(Actually, the Eustace Scrubb line is really quite good -- but don&#039;t you see the resemblance to some the people you meet in SF fandom as well?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i></i></p>

	<p>Well, yes, but Miriam is a worldwalker, for heaven&#8217;s sake. She can leave Gruinmarkt even more easily than you could have left India! I thought that Miriam&#8217;s reaction was just meant to show that she was a rather spoiled person from a sheltered upbringing &#8211; a selfish, high-maintenance prig. She&#8217;s basically a grown-up Eustace Scrubb.</p>

	<p>Ah, the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.</p>

	<p>(Actually, the Eustace Scrubb line is really quite good&#8212;but don&#8217;t you see the resemblance to some the people you meet in SF fandom as well?)</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264608</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264608</guid>
		<description>Adding on to Virgil&#039;s anecdote, one big difference between the peasants in Gruinmarkt/ many people in a third-world country &amp; us (incl. that women living w/the Big Black Pot) is that they are living under the social constraints of their systems.  The Gruinmarkt peasants live under the control and exploitation of their lords, who probably have the rights of very summary injustice.  Not to mention ruinous taxation in a variety of cunning methods (harvest the lord&#039;s crops first, use the lord&#039;s mill, use the lord&#039;s this thant and the other, paying the lord&#039;s set fees to do so).

Similarly, an Indian person living in India has to deal with social limitations which a first world person wouldn&#039;t be subject to, and could, in the end, avoid by leaving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Adding on to Virgil&#8217;s anecdote, one big difference between the peasants in Gruinmarkt/ many people in a third-world country &#038; us (incl. that women living w/the Big Black Pot) is that they are living under the social constraints of their systems.  The Gruinmarkt peasants live under the control and exploitation of their lords, who probably have the rights of very summary injustice.  Not to mention ruinous taxation in a variety of cunning methods (harvest the lord&#8217;s crops first, use the lord&#8217;s mill, use the lord&#8217;s this thant and the other, paying the lord&#8217;s set fees to do so).</p>

	<p>Similarly, an Indian person living in India has to deal with social limitations which a first world person wouldn&#8217;t be subject to, and could, in the end, avoid by leaving.</p>
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		<title>By: virgil xenophon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264605</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264605</guid>
		<description>&quot;Scent&quot; is right on target. I remember seeing a TV news &quot;human interest&quot; story around a decade ago about a woman in Penn. who went &quot;back to the future&quot; as a lifestyle experiment (and drug her family with her.) She got ALL her water from a well and cooking was done by a huge classic black pot hung in the fire-place. Nothing but candle-light, etc. When interviewed on TV for the story, her great-grand mother who had actually grown up under circumstances fairly close to those depicted, allowed that she thought her great-grand daughter was crazy. &quot;I&#039;ve got every electric appliance imaginable in my kitchen and house to make life comfortable,&quot; she stated, continuing, &quot;I&#039;d NEVER go back to those days unless forced to.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Scent&#8221; is right on target. I remember seeing a TV news &#8220;human interest&#8221; story around a decade ago about a woman in Penn. who went &#8220;back to the future&#8221; as a lifestyle experiment (and drug her family with her.) She got <span class="caps">ALL</span> her water from a well and cooking was done by a huge classic black pot hung in the fire-place. Nothing but candle-light, etc. When interviewed on TV for the story, her great-grand mother who had actually grown up under circumstances fairly close to those depicted, allowed that she thought her great-grand daughter was crazy. &#8220;I&#8217;ve got every electric appliance imaginable in my kitchen and house to make life comfortable,&#8221; she stated, continuing, &#8220;I&#8217;d <span class="caps">NEVER</span> go back to those days unless forced to.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264553</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264553</guid>
		<description>I read all the authors mentioned in the previous two comments, excepting Murakami, whom I&#039;m sure to Google as soon as I finish this comment.

Cherryh&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Foreigner&lt;/em&gt; series, as well as some of her other work, indeed succeed where most other science fiction writers fail at imagining truly alien cultures.  And I really can&#039;t praise Banks enough, though I don&#039;t think he&#039;s actually that interested in examining alien cultures.  He&#039;s very much writing about us.

Yes, I know that science fiction readers &quot;in the community&quot; argue about this constantly.  But, you know, I read a lot of books.  A &lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt; lot of books, including most of those which are so-called &quot;great&quot;.  I know what a truly good novel can do.  Most science fiction fails at this.  Most science fiction is entertainment.  Which is fine, it&#039;s why I still read so much of it and don&#039;t apologize to those who sneer at it for doing so.  But I think it could be better than it is.  It&#039;s hamstrung by its early legacy.  And many of its readers, too, of course, because of their expectations.

Incidentally, I&#039;m almost finished with &lt;em&gt;The Knife of Never Letting Go&lt;/em&gt;, and it is indeed quite good.  I think it might also be targeted to the YA audience because the solution to the central mystery seemed obvious to me very early on and I am finding it very belabored at this point.  I also question the author&#039;s choice for the speech patterns of the community—it&#039;s pretty hackneyed.  Still, I think it&#039;s a convincing idea of how people might react to the situation he&#039;s conceived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I read all the authors mentioned in the previous two comments, excepting Murakami, whom I&#8217;m sure to Google as soon as I finish this comment.</p>

	<p>Cherryh&#8217;s <em>Foreigner</em> series, as well as some of her other work, indeed succeed where most other science fiction writers fail at imagining truly alien cultures.  And I really can&#8217;t praise Banks enough, though I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s actually that interested in examining alien cultures.  He&#8217;s very much writing about us.</p>

	<p>Yes, I know that science fiction readers &#8220;in the community&#8221; argue about this constantly.  But, you know, I read a lot of books.  A <em>very</em> lot of books, including most of those which are so-called &#8220;great&#8221;.  I know what a truly good novel can do.  Most science fiction fails at this.  Most science fiction is entertainment.  Which is fine, it&#8217;s why I still read so much of it and don&#8217;t apologize to those who sneer at it for doing so.  But I think it could be better than it is.  It&#8217;s hamstrung by its early legacy.  And many of its readers, too, of course, because of their expectations.</p>

	<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;m almost finished with <em>The Knife of Never Letting Go</em>, and it is indeed quite good.  I think it might also be targeted to the YA audience because the solution to the central mystery seemed obvious to me very early on and I am finding it very belabored at this point.  I also question the author&#8217;s choice for the speech patterns of the community&#8212;it&#8217;s pretty hackneyed.  Still, I think it&#8217;s a convincing idea of how people might react to the situation he&#8217;s conceived.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly Sinclair</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264527</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Sinclair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264527</guid>
		<description>A good example of a writer working with complex cultural themes is C.J. Cherryh in her Foreigner series.  She conveys the confusion of a well-intended human diplomat from a small human enclave living on an alien planet.   There are sequels.   The alien remains completely &quot;other&quot; despite the protagonist&#039;s growing learning curve.  
As for the Middle Ages, I recommend Connie Willis&#039;s &quot;Doomsday Book.&quot;  A near-future female researcher visits medieval England.  Even with a well-researched, prepared approach, she is ill-equipped for the reality of her subjects&#039; lives--a mixture of village gentry and commoners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A good example of a writer working with complex cultural themes is C.J. Cherryh in her Foreigner series.  She conveys the confusion of a well-intended human diplomat from a small human enclave living on an alien planet.   There are sequels.   The alien remains completely &#8220;other&#8221; despite the protagonist&#8217;s growing learning curve.<br />
As for the Middle Ages, I recommend Connie Willis&#8217;s &#8220;Doomsday Book.&#8221;  A near-future female researcher visits medieval England.  Even with a well-researched, prepared approach, she is ill-equipped for the reality of her subjects&#8217; lives&#8212;a mixture of village gentry and commoners.</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264522</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264522</guid>
		<description>You know, alot of people never really ask so much more from their books than I did with a Rick Cook book.  I&#039;d be suspicious of the whole make me *feel* sentiment.  Power&#039;s Goldbug Variations &quot;attempts&quot; to make me feel.  It&#039;s superschmaaht and everything, but the emotional passages come off as Randian Emo, which is why I haven&#039;t finished the last 100 pages or so.

There are plenty of science fiction written by people who comes from other than male dominated fields.  I will skip the obvious females such as Cherryh, Le Guin, or Butler.  How about Iain Banks or Richard Morgan?  Going a bit further afield, Murakami and Vonnegut, and leaving alone Atwood&#039;s disposition?  These are all the obvious people, man, so I kinda find your comments (Ellis) pretentious.  It is really not as if we don&#039;t have a controversy about this every year in the community.  I don&#039;t think Science fiction has *ever* been dominated by writers with a scientific background.  In fact, I think hard science fiction, which *is* dominated by people with some sort of technical background like Peter Watts or Greg Egan.  However, there is also such a thing as hard social science fiction (which of course is what Merchant Princes aspires to be).  The thing is, hardness almost ALWAYS limits the audience to reasonably educated people at high school reading level or better.  Greg Egan is never going to sell as well as Bujold, who isn&#039;t going to sell as well as Rowling.  To talk about aspire the way the comment does it, is mildly narcissic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You know, alot of people never really ask so much more from their books than I did with a Rick Cook book.  I&#8217;d be suspicious of the whole make me <strong>feel</strong> sentiment.  Power&#8217;s Goldbug Variations &#8220;attempts&#8221; to make me feel.  It&#8217;s superschmaaht and everything, but the emotional passages come off as Randian Emo, which is why I haven&#8217;t finished the last 100 pages or so.</p>

	<p>There are plenty of science fiction written by people who comes from other than male dominated fields.  I will skip the obvious females such as Cherryh, Le Guin, or Butler.  How about Iain Banks or Richard Morgan?  Going a bit further afield, Murakami and Vonnegut, and leaving alone Atwood&#8217;s disposition?  These are all the obvious people, man, so I kinda find your comments (Ellis) pretentious.  It is really not as if we don&#8217;t have a controversy about this every year in the community.  I don&#8217;t think Science fiction has <strong>ever</strong> been dominated by writers with a scientific background.  In fact, I think hard science fiction, which <strong>is</strong> dominated by people with some sort of technical background like Peter Watts or Greg Egan.  However, there is also such a thing as hard social science fiction (which of course is what Merchant Princes aspires to be).  The thing is, hardness almost <span class="caps">ALWAYS</span> limits the audience to reasonably educated people at high school reading level or better.  Greg Egan is never going to sell as well as Bujold, who isn&#8217;t going to sell as well as Rowling.  To talk about aspire the way the comment does it, is mildly narcissic.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264515</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264515</guid>
		<description>I grew up reading Heinlein, practically in real time. A much earlier tribute to/ evocation/pastiche/send-up/one-up of Heinlein is Alexi Panshin&#039;s &quot;Rite of Passage,&quot; in which he demonstrated that he could write a Heinlein juvenile better than Heinlein. Kim Stanley Robinson once remarked to me, on the subject of Heinlein, that what most put him off was the lack of humanist values. Heinlein is not, in my opinion, an author to emulate. The occasional nod should suffice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I grew up reading Heinlein, practically in real time. A much earlier tribute to/ evocation/pastiche/send-up/one-up of Heinlein is Alexi Panshin&#8217;s &#8220;Rite of Passage,&#8221; in which he demonstrated that he could write a Heinlein juvenile better than Heinlein. Kim Stanley Robinson once remarked to me, on the subject of Heinlein, that what most put him off was the lack of humanist values. Heinlein is not, in my opinion, an author to emulate. The occasional nod should suffice.</p>
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		<title>By: rea</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264505</link>
		<dc:creator>rea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264505</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“I know, I’ll write about the Roman/British Empire/ Vietnam/Aztecs/blah blah blah – but in space!”&lt;/i&gt;

Or Czarist Russia circa 1902 (although, of course, that was in part a deliberate anachronism on the apart of the &lt;i&gt;Singularity Sky&lt;/i&gt; society in question)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;I know, I&#8217;ll write about the Roman/British Empire/ Vietnam/Aztecs/blah blah blah &#8211; but in space!&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Or Czarist Russia circa 1902 (although, of course, that was in part a deliberate anachronism on the apart of the <i>Singularity Sky</i> society in question)</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264501</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264501</guid>
		<description>Heh, I have that book right here on my desk, along with a small stack of others I recently had delivered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Heh, I have that book right here on my desk, along with a small stack of others I recently had delivered.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264500</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264500</guid>
		<description>&quot;What’s been missing is a movement that is informed by the other sciences and rigorous disciplines, such as anthropology, sociology, history and such.&quot;

Ursula leGuin comes to mind immediately, but yeah. The &#039;history&#039; thing is particularly bad, because lots of SF writers seem to follow Asimov in taking history as the writer&#039;s secret weapon, but what they mean by that is &quot;I know, I&#039;ll write about the Roman/British Empire/ Vietnam/Aztecs/blah blah blah - &lt;i&gt;but in space!&lt;/i&gt;&quot; 

While I&#039;m here a random recommendation -  &lt;i&gt;The Knife of Never Letting Go&lt;/i&gt;, by Patrick Ness. It&#039;s YA because it has a teenage protagonist (and moves very quickly), but is very well done. There are no biology, engineering, sociology or economics lectures, it&#039;s all show, not tell. Worth a look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s been missing is a movement that is informed by the other sciences and rigorous disciplines, such as anthropology, sociology, history and such.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Ursula leGuin comes to mind immediately, but yeah. The &#8216;history&#8217; thing is particularly bad, because lots of SF writers seem to follow Asimov in taking history as the writer&#8217;s secret weapon, but what they mean by that is &#8220;I know, I&#8217;ll write about the Roman/British Empire/ Vietnam/Aztecs/blah blah blah &#8211; <i>but in space!</i>&#8221;</p>

	<p>While I&#8217;m here a random recommendation &#8211;  <i>The Knife of Never Letting Go</i>, by Patrick Ness. It&#8217;s YA because it has a teenage protagonist (and moves very quickly), but is very well done. There are no biology, engineering, sociology or economics lectures, it&#8217;s all show, not tell. Worth a look.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/01/27/response-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-264499</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9264#comment-264499</guid>
		<description>As a lifelong reader of science fiction, I&#039;ve come to believe that science fiction, as a genre (but with a very few exceptions) handles sociological and cultural speculation very poorly, despite the popular consensus otherwise.  It endlessly writes large and with strange words the socioeconomic territory of the author.  Even when it attempts to do otherwise, it does so only in a very simplistic manner.  Science fiction&#039;s strength is not, frankly, imagining the future (which it has rarely gotten correct) or the Other, it is presenting our times and ourselves to us in an unfamiliar fashion so as to force us to see things that we otherwise wouldn&#039;t see.  Science fiction is writing about fishes and water in the guise of birds and air so that the fish suddenly see the water they&#039;re swimming in.  Or something to that effect.

All this is to say, I think maybe it&#039;s unrealistic to except Stross&#039;s Gruinmarkt to be an informed and fully realized hypothetical medieval society.  In the context of science fiction as a genre.

But maybe we should expect more.

Science fiction has been dominated by technologists and hard scientists, and within this limited domain of informed science the genre has generally excelled.  There&#039;s a long history of an alternative movement within the genre that most disavows the hard science and takes its cue from the arts and humanities.  What&#039;s been missing is a movement that is informed by the &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; sciences and rigorous disciplines, such as anthropology, sociology, history and such.  It truly seems peculiar to me that the two genres which are all about &quot;world building&quot; (and the term really means &lt;em&gt;culture building&lt;/em&gt; atop a technological or magical structure), fantasy and science fiction, are generally so uninformed about the sciences which would most benefit these aims.  This recently struck me the strongest as I&#039;ve read Steven Erikson&#039;s Malazan series—Erikson (a pseudonym) is an anthropologist by training and (I believe) trade, and it shows in his writing.  He creates alternative cultures with such convincing depth and complexity, that it really shows how shallow are almost all other attempts at the same.

I haven&#039;t read Stross&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Merchant Princes&lt;/em&gt; books, but on the basis of this seminar, I think I&#039;ll order them from Amazon.  I don&#039;t plan to hold it against him if Gruinmarkt seems under-realized.  It&#039;s the norm.

My problem with the other books of Stross&#039;s I&#039;ve read, including &lt;em&gt;Accelerando&lt;/em&gt; is that they&#039;re authorially smug.  (Which is why I couldn&#039;t get more than a few pages into &lt;em&gt;Infinite Jest&lt;/em&gt;, by the way.)  In Stross&#039;s case, as I expect is true for many other CT readers, I seem to share a great deal of the experience and ideas which form the background to his speculation.  And he&#039;s always flying right at the edge of his intellectual competency (I&#039;m not one who should throw aspersions, to be sure) and occasionally beyond.  That he&#039;s a brilliant man is beyond doubt.  But I&#039;m not sure this makes for good &lt;em&gt;novels&lt;/em&gt;.    He&#039;s inventive with ideas the way a jazz musician is inventive with notes.  The problem is that these ideas, and his particular virtuosity with them, are extremely contemporary—if you strip them away, as readers will in twenty years when many of them seem wrong-headed or anachronistic or archaic, the brilliance fades.

I quite enjoyed &lt;em&gt;Saturn&#039;s Children&lt;/em&gt;.  Although I&#039;m sure there are many of us, I&#039;m the only person I know who truly grew up reading Heinlein.  (Despite Jack Williamson living only blocks away from me.)  It&#039;s impossible not to immediately recognize what Stross was doing—and he did it well.  It&#039;s clever as both an homage and a satire (those that fail to comprehend the feminist objections to Heinlein&#039;s writings might clue-in while reading Stross&#039;s book) and a decent story in its own right.  But, to me, it exemplifies Stross&#039;s biggest faults (as do his Laundry books, which I couldn&#039;t finish).  It&#039;s really, really clever.  Brilliantly clever.  &quot;Clever&quot; in the American sense; which connotes something aside, or in addition to, intelligence.  The con artist is clever.  Stross is intelligent &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; clever, but I&#039;m not sure he&#039;s a very good artist.  That&#039;s a criticism common against science fiction writers.

I&#039;d like to read a Stross novel that actually makes me &lt;em&gt;feel&lt;/em&gt; something.  I&#039;d like him to turn his brilliance and cleverness and intelligence and inventiveness to something that actually &lt;em&gt;means something&lt;/em&gt;.  It&#039;s hard for me to explain why I feel like breath-taking &quot;big ideas&quot; are not, in themselves, that enduring.  Here&#039;s a counter-example: my favorite novel is &lt;em&gt;War and Peace&lt;/em&gt;.  Tolstoy had a Big Idea.  He, unfortunately for the reader, felt the need to expound on it at length in his epilogues, but we&#039;ll set that aside.  (And a few monologues, besides.)  The real enduring genius of W&amp;P is that Tolstoy managed to examine his Big Idea in a way that truly made it meaningful to individual human lives.  Incredibly real-seeming peoples&#039; lives.

Most of the time, science fiction writers have Big Ideas that they examine schematically.  It&#039;s a sketch on a chalkboard backed up by the rapid patter of varyingly competent lecturers.  But the reason that any of us really and truly care about these Big Ideas is because—other than their whiz-bang ingenuity—they often actually come to matter to how we live and be.  And yet most science fiction authors provide us with only barely realized characters who inhabit these worlds of Big Ideas.  The writers are sort of missing the trees for the forest.

In this sense, I feel that Stross is a bit of a throw-back to Heinlein and Asimov and the others writers of science fiction&#039;s Golden Age who placed a large premium on wowing the audience with more weird ideas than they&#039;ve encountered elsewhere, while giving the deepest relevance of these ideas short-shrift.  Like many of the Golden Age novels, I don&#039;t think that Stross&#039;s work (extent till now) will age very well.

He&#039;s still among the very best writing currently in the genre, however.  As a side note, can anyone tell me why it is that the US is seeing a real dearth of science fiction (bad novelizations from other media excepted) while the UK is seeing a boom?  Meanwhile, the situation seems to be reverse with regard to fantasy.  It&#039;s odd; and I can&#039;t help but think it is saying something about the two respective cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a lifelong reader of science fiction, I&#8217;ve come to believe that science fiction, as a genre (but with a very few exceptions) handles sociological and cultural speculation very poorly, despite the popular consensus otherwise.  It endlessly writes large and with strange words the socioeconomic territory of the author.  Even when it attempts to do otherwise, it does so only in a very simplistic manner.  Science fiction&#8217;s strength is not, frankly, imagining the future (which it has rarely gotten correct) or the Other, it is presenting our times and ourselves to us in an unfamiliar fashion so as to force us to see things that we otherwise wouldn&#8217;t see.  Science fiction is writing about fishes and water in the guise of birds and air so that the fish suddenly see the water they&#8217;re swimming in.  Or something to that effect.</p>

	<p>All this is to say, I think maybe it&#8217;s unrealistic to except Stross&#8217;s Gruinmarkt to be an informed and fully realized hypothetical medieval society.  In the context of science fiction as a genre.</p>

	<p>But maybe we should expect more.</p>

	<p>Science fiction has been dominated by technologists and hard scientists, and within this limited domain of informed science the genre has generally excelled.  There&#8217;s a long history of an alternative movement within the genre that most disavows the hard science and takes its cue from the arts and humanities.  What&#8217;s been missing is a movement that is informed by the <em>other</em> sciences and rigorous disciplines, such as anthropology, sociology, history and such.  It truly seems peculiar to me that the two genres which are all about &#8220;world building&#8221; (and the term really means <em>culture building</em> atop a technological or magical structure), fantasy and science fiction, are generally so uninformed about the sciences which would most benefit these aims.  This recently struck me the strongest as I&#8217;ve read Steven Erikson&#8217;s Malazan series&#8212;Erikson (a pseudonym) is an anthropologist by training and (I believe) trade, and it shows in his writing.  He creates alternative cultures with such convincing depth and complexity, that it really shows how shallow are almost all other attempts at the same.</p>

	<p>I haven&#8217;t read Stross&#8217;s <em>Merchant Princes</em> books, but on the basis of this seminar, I think I&#8217;ll order them from Amazon.  I don&#8217;t plan to hold it against him if Gruinmarkt seems under-realized.  It&#8217;s the norm.</p>

	<p>My problem with the other books of Stross&#8217;s I&#8217;ve read, including <em>Accelerando</em> is that they&#8217;re authorially smug.  (Which is why I couldn&#8217;t get more than a few pages into <em>Infinite Jest</em>, by the way.)  In Stross&#8217;s case, as I expect is true for many other CT readers, I seem to share a great deal of the experience and ideas which form the background to his speculation.  And he&#8217;s always flying right at the edge of his intellectual competency (I&#8217;m not one who should throw aspersions, to be sure) and occasionally beyond.  That he&#8217;s a brilliant man is beyond doubt.  But I&#8217;m not sure this makes for good <em>novels</em>.    He&#8217;s inventive with ideas the way a jazz musician is inventive with notes.  The problem is that these ideas, and his particular virtuosity with them, are extremely contemporary&#8212;if you strip them away, as readers will in twenty years when many of them seem wrong-headed or anachronistic or archaic, the brilliance fades.</p>

	<p>I quite enjoyed <em>Saturn&#8217;s Children</em>.  Although I&#8217;m sure there are many of us, I&#8217;m the only person I know who truly grew up reading Heinlein.  (Despite Jack Williamson living only blocks away from me.)  It&#8217;s impossible not to immediately recognize what Stross was doing&#8212;and he did it well.  It&#8217;s clever as both an homage and a satire (those that fail to comprehend the feminist objections to Heinlein&#8217;s writings might clue-in while reading Stross&#8217;s book) and a decent story in its own right.  But, to me, it exemplifies Stross&#8217;s biggest faults (as do his Laundry books, which I couldn&#8217;t finish).  It&#8217;s really, really clever.  Brilliantly clever.  &#8220;Clever&#8221; in the American sense; which connotes something aside, or in addition to, intelligence.  The con artist is clever.  Stross is intelligent <em>and</em> clever, but I&#8217;m not sure he&#8217;s a very good artist.  That&#8217;s a criticism common against science fiction writers.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;d like to read a Stross novel that actually makes me <em>feel</em> something.  I&#8217;d like him to turn his brilliance and cleverness and intelligence and inventiveness to something that actually <em>means something</em>.  It&#8217;s hard for me to explain why I feel like breath-taking &#8220;big ideas&#8221; are not, in themselves, that enduring.  Here&#8217;s a counter-example: my favorite novel is <em>War and Peace</em>.  Tolstoy had a Big Idea.  He, unfortunately for the reader, felt the need to expound on it at length in his epilogues, but we&#8217;ll set that aside.  (And a few monologues, besides.)  The real enduring genius of W&#038;P is that Tolstoy managed to examine his Big Idea in a way that truly made it meaningful to individual human lives.  Incredibly real-seeming peoples&#8217; lives.</p>

	<p>Most of the time, science fiction writers have Big Ideas that they examine schematically.  It&#8217;s a sketch on a chalkboard backed up by the rapid patter of varyingly competent lecturers.  But the reason that any of us really and truly care about these Big Ideas is because&#8212;other than their whiz-bang ingenuity&#8212;they often actually come to matter to how we live and be.  And yet most science fiction authors provide us with only barely realized characters who inhabit these worlds of Big Ideas.  The writers are sort of missing the trees for the forest.</p>

	<p>In this sense, I feel that Stross is a bit of a throw-back to Heinlein and Asimov and the others writers of science fiction&#8217;s Golden Age who placed a large premium on wowing the audience with more weird ideas than they&#8217;ve encountered elsewhere, while giving the deepest relevance of these ideas short-shrift.  Like many of the Golden Age novels, I don&#8217;t think that Stross&#8217;s work (extent till now) will age very well.</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s still among the very best writing currently in the genre, however.  As a side note, can anyone tell me why it is that the US is seeing a real dearth of science fiction (bad novelizations from other media excepted) while the UK is seeing a boom?  Meanwhile, the situation seems to be reverse with regard to fantasy.  It&#8217;s odd; and I can&#8217;t help but think it is saying something about the two respective cultures.</p>
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