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	<title>Comments on: Shooting yourself in the mouth</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: b-psycho</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265655</link>
		<dc:creator>b-psycho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265655</guid>
		<description>...water from Italy?  I don&#039;t even like bottled water from HERE &amp; prefer the tap, who the hell is buying Italian water?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8230;water from Italy?  I don&#8217;t even like bottled water from <span class="caps">HERE </span>&#038; prefer the tap, who the hell is buying Italian water?</p>
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		<title>By: bad Jim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265501</link>
		<dc:creator>bad Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265501</guid>
		<description>Praise cheeses!

Trade restrictions don&#039;t seem to have done much to reduce the selection available at Trader Joe&#039;s. There&#039;s a substantial variety of good domestic cheeses, but the range is limited compared to that of the European exports. One might conjecture that the American market for good cheese is small enough to be nearly satisfied by inexpensive imports, in contrast to the wine market. I see more vineyard acreage driving through either California&#039;s Central Valley or the Salinas valley than riding a train through Bordeaux or Tuscany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Praise cheeses!</p>

	<p>Trade restrictions don&#8217;t seem to have done much to reduce the selection available at Trader Joe&#8217;s. There&#8217;s a substantial variety of good domestic cheeses, but the range is limited compared to that of the European exports. One might conjecture that the American market for good cheese is small enough to be nearly satisfied by inexpensive imports, in contrast to the wine market. I see more vineyard acreage driving through either California&#8217;s Central Valley or the Salinas valley than riding a train through Bordeaux or Tuscany.</p>
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		<title>By: salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265477</link>
		<dc:creator>salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265477</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But the tariffs will have to be very high to enable toe Wisconsin cheeses to compete on price.&lt;/i&gt;

Speaking of which, I miss living across the street from a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brennansmarket.com/blog/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brennan&#039;s Market&lt;/a&gt; as much as anything.

Fun fact of questionable utility: &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;view=text&amp;hl=en&amp;gl=us&amp;q=Madison+Wisconsin+cheese&amp;btnG=Search+Maps&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Madison&lt;/a&gt; gets 3,168 hits for cheese, and Wisconsin&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;view=text&amp;hl=en&amp;gl=us&amp;q=Wisconsin+cheese&amp;btnG=Search+Maps&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pushing 3,000,000&lt;/a&gt;, nearly half as many hits as &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;view=text&amp;hl=en&amp;gl=us&amp;q=France+cheese&amp;btnG=Search+Maps&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;all of France&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But the tariffs will have to be very high to enable toe Wisconsin cheeses to compete on price.</i></p>

	<p>Speaking of which, I miss living across the street from a <a href="http://www.brennansmarket.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">Brennan&#8217;s Market</a> as much as anything.</p>

	<p>Fun fact of questionable utility: <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;view=text&#038;hl=en&#038;gl=us&#038;q=Madison+Wisconsin+cheese&#038;btnG=Search+Maps" rel="nofollow">Madison</a> gets 3,168 hits for cheese, and Wisconsin&#8217;s <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;view=text&#038;hl=en&#038;gl=us&#038;q=Wisconsin+cheese&#038;btnG=Search+Maps" rel="nofollow">pushing 3,000,000</a>, nearly half as many hits as <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;view=text&#038;hl=en&#038;gl=us&#038;q=France+cheese&#038;btnG=Search+Maps" rel="nofollow">all of France</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Beryl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265436</link>
		<dc:creator>Beryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265436</guid>
		<description>@14

What Tom Hurka said. Protected or otherwise, the stuff is excellent -- in a recent comparison tasting it bested similar French cheeses in five of six cases. Even their (aged) cheddar is top notch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@14</p>

	<p>What Tom Hurka said. Protected or otherwise, the stuff is excellent&#8212;in a recent comparison tasting it bested similar French cheeses in five of six cases. Even their (aged) cheddar is top notch.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265425</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265425</guid>
		<description>First major Obama f*ck-up. Hopefully my plane leaves to Paris in a few hours–I&#039;m out of here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>First major Obama f*ck-up. Hopefully my plane leaves to Paris in a few hours&#8211;I&#8217;m out of here.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265424</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265424</guid>
		<description>On the food miles issue, as I understand it the evidence is that any environmental damage is far more complex than just distance. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4807026.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/23/food.ethicalliving
(As a NZer, I am probably exposed to biased sources of information on this from NZ farmers, given the importance of agricultural exports to the NZ economy. On the other hand, probably British and American farmers have the opposite bias, on the third hand, both my links above are UK ones). 

As for Americans being able to afford to purchase good cheese - I spent a uni summer in Boston in the USA as a student on one of those temporary work visas and suffered from being unable to get decent cheese. The &quot;good stuff&quot; (within my price range) tasted worse than NZ&#039;s $5 for 1 kg Valumetric cheese. Of course things may have improved since then - they could hardly have gotten worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the food miles issue, as I understand it the evidence is that any environmental damage is far more complex than just distance. See <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4807026.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4807026.stm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/23/food.ethicalliving" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/mar/23/food.ethicalliving</a><br />
(As a NZer, I am probably exposed to biased sources of information on this from NZ farmers, given the importance of agricultural exports to the NZ economy. On the other hand, probably British and American farmers have the opposite bias, on the third hand, both my links above are UK ones).</p>

	<p>As for Americans being able to afford to purchase good cheese &#8211; I spent a uni summer in Boston in the <span class="caps">USA</span> as a student on one of those temporary work visas and suffered from being unable to get decent cheese. The &#8220;good stuff&#8221; (within my price range) tasted worse than NZ&#8217;s $5 for 1 kg Valumetric cheese. Of course things may have improved since then &#8211; they could hardly have gotten worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hurka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265420</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hurka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265420</guid>
		<description>Mind you, Quebec cheese makers probably benefit from Canada&#039;s supply-management system for milk, which primarily benefits Quebec dairy farmers (a politically powerful group) and is a form of agricultural subsidy. Which brings us back to the original topic of protectionism ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mind you, Quebec cheese makers probably benefit from Canada&#8217;s supply-management system for milk, which primarily benefits Quebec dairy farmers (a politically powerful group) and is a form of agricultural subsidy. Which brings us back to the original topic of protectionism &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265417</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265417</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be looking some of that Wisconsin toe cheese, as mentioned in #4.
Keeping in mind a whole lot of folks are making do with whatever cheese the local food bank gives them, if it has any that day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll be looking some of that Wisconsin toe cheese, as mentioned in #4.<br />
Keeping in mind a whole lot of folks are making do with whatever cheese the local food bank gives them, if it has any that day.</p>
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		<title>By: Geiseric</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265409</link>
		<dc:creator>Geiseric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 03:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265409</guid>
		<description>Quebecker cheese! It is tasty indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Quebecker cheese! It is tasty indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: rea</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265388</link>
		<dc:creator>rea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265388</guid>
		<description>No cheese-eating surrender monkeys in this here trade war, no sir . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No cheese-eating surrender monkeys in this here trade war, no sir . . .</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265387</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265387</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Is a global market in cheese necessarily a good thing?&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a worthwhile question. I have nostalgic moments when I remember the dozens of local cheeses being sold out of a van at a small-town French market, but I wouldn&#039;t really want them sold in the US, even in the local hippie-grocer alongside the growing range of American-made varieties. Other cheeses do rely upon a global market, for better or worse, which is why they value the protection of AOC.

Still, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Clothaire Rapaille&lt;/a&gt; is basically correct on how Americans regard cheese, and it&#039;ll take a big top-and-bottom cultural shift towards food and agriculture to change that, which extends to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/0081992&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;criminalisation of small-scale dairies by the FDA&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> Is a global market in cheese necessarily a good thing?</i></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s a worthwhile question. I have nostalgic moments when I remember the dozens of local cheeses being sold out of a van at a small-town French market, but I wouldn&#8217;t really want them sold in the US, even in the local hippie-grocer alongside the growing range of American-made varieties. Other cheeses do rely upon a global market, for better or worse, which is why they value the protection of <span class="caps">AOC</span>.</p>

	<p>Still, <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html" rel="nofollow">Clothaire Rapaille</a> is basically correct on how Americans regard cheese, and it&#8217;ll take a big top-and-bottom cultural shift towards food and agriculture to change that, which extends to the <a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/0081992" rel="nofollow">criminalisation of small-scale dairies by the <span class="caps">FDA</span></a>.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265386</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265386</guid>
		<description>Hasta el Manchego siempre!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hasta el Manchego siempre!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265385</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265385</guid>
		<description>Thanks Chris- I&#039;ll look for it.  (I&#039;m very fond of good cheese.  One thing that I miss about not living in Philadelphia any more is having access to a really world-class cheese store, DeBruno Brothers.)  You&#039;re right, Giotto- &quot;American&quot; cheese is terrible, and it&#039;s quite possible to get a lot of bad cheese here that doesn&#039;t even fit that official category.  Tom- I don&#039;t know much about the cheese of Quebec in general but the last time I was there I did have some really great local cheese curds, bought from a farmer&#039;s market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks Chris- I&#8217;ll look for it.  (I&#8217;m very fond of good cheese.  One thing that I miss about not living in Philadelphia any more is having access to a really world-class cheese store, DeBruno Brothers.)  You&#8217;re right, Giotto- &#8220;American&#8221; cheese is terrible, and it&#8217;s quite possible to get a lot of bad cheese here that doesn&#8217;t even fit that official category.  Tom- I don&#8217;t know much about the cheese of Quebec in general but the last time I was there I did have some really great local cheese curds, bought from a farmer&#8217;s market.</p>
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		<title>By: giotto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265378</link>
		<dc:creator>giotto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265378</guid>
		<description>Matt, thanks for the clarification.

And just to clarify my own post: by &quot;American cheese&quot; I did not mean &quot;cheese made in America.&quot; I meant the ubiquitous orange processed meets-the-legal-definition-of-cheese cheese-like substance known as &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheese&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;American cheese&lt;/a&gt;. I do love a Vermont cheddar so old that it is practically crystallized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Matt, thanks for the clarification.</p>

	<p>And just to clarify my own post: by &#8220;American cheese&#8221; I did not mean &#8220;cheese made in America.&#8221; I meant the ubiquitous orange processed meets-the-legal-definition-of-cheese cheese-like substance known as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheese" rel="nofollow">American cheese</a>. I do love a Vermont cheddar so old that it is practically crystallized.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/09/shooting-yourself-in-the-mouth/comment-page-1/#comment-265376</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9509#comment-265376</guid>
		<description>It is Matt, but it did suffer a tiny bit in the late 80s after the listeria scare, when Colston Bassett converted to using pasteurised milk (the other dairies had already done so, and CB was the unpasteurised holdout). Stichelton (which can&#039;t be called Stilton for legal reasons) is an attempt to recreate that lost taste. They&#039;re doing pretty well - try it if you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is Matt, but it did suffer a tiny bit in the late 80s after the listeria scare, when Colston Bassett converted to using pasteurised milk (the other dairies had already done so, and CB was the unpasteurised holdout). Stichelton (which can&#8217;t be called Stilton for legal reasons) is an attempt to recreate that lost taste. They&#8217;re doing pretty well &#8211; try it if you can.</p>
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