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	<title>Comments on: Opinion Laundering</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: raivo pommer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266706</link>
		<dc:creator>raivo pommer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266706</guid>
		<description>VW BANK Krise

von Raivo Pommer

Der oberste Bankenfonds-Kontrolleur beschwert sich, dass die VW-Bank unter den Rettungsschirm darf. Die habe da nichts zu suchen. 
  


Aus den Medien musste Albert Rupprecht (CSU) erfahren, dass jetzt offenbar auch Autobanken unter den Bankenrettungsschirm des Bundes schlüpfen dürfen. Man darf sagen: Einverstanden ist der Vorsitzende des parlamentarischen Kontrollgremiums für den 480 Milliarden Euro schweren Rettungsfonds Soffin damit nicht. 

Die VW-Bank soll offenbar staatliche Garantien im Gegenwert von zwei Milliarden Euro erhalten. &quot;Das war so nicht abgemacht&quot;, beklagt sich Rupprecht in einem Schreiben an Soffin-Chef Hannes Rehm und den Vorsitzenden des entscheidenden Lenkungsausschusses der Bundesregierung, Finanz-Staatssekretär Jörg Asmussen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">VW BANK </span>Krise</p>

	<p>von Raivo Pommer</p>

	<p>Der oberste Bankenfonds-Kontrolleur beschwert sich, dass die VW-Bank unter den Rettungsschirm darf. Die habe da nichts zu suchen.</p>



	<p>Aus den Medien musste Albert Rupprecht (CSU) erfahren, dass jetzt offenbar auch Autobanken unter den Bankenrettungsschirm des Bundes schl&#252;pfen d&#252;rfen. Man darf sagen: Einverstanden ist der Vorsitzende des parlamentarischen Kontrollgremiums f&#252;r den 480 Milliarden Euro schweren Rettungsfonds Soffin damit nicht.</p>

	<p>Die VW-Bank soll offenbar staatliche Garantien im Gegenwert von zwei Milliarden Euro erhalten. &#8220;Das war so nicht abgemacht&#8221;, beklagt sich Rupprecht in einem Schreiben an Soffin-Chef Hannes Rehm und den Vorsitzenden des entscheidenden Lenkungsausschusses der Bundesregierung, Finanz-Staatssekret&#228;r J&#246;rg Asmussen.</p>
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		<title>By: roac</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266683</link>
		<dc:creator>roac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266683</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Ever seen a company’s press release quote a customer or partner? Did you ever imagine that for a minute that the customer or partner originated that quote, rather than having it handed to them to affirm?&lt;/i&gt;

Huh.  My agency puts out press releases all the time, and they invariably state that &quot;the political person in charge said &#039;What the defendant did is very bad and we are determined to stamp it out, bla bla bla.&quot;  I always ask, &quot;Did &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; hear her say that?  So why are we saying she did?&quot;  As though the first thing the boss does every morning is pick up a sheet of paper with a list of high-minded sentences, and read each one to the empty air.   Enunciating clearly and distinctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Ever seen a company&#8217;s press release quote a customer or partner? Did you ever imagine that for a minute that the customer or partner originated that quote, rather than having it handed to them to affirm?</i></p>

	<p>Huh.  My agency puts out press releases all the time, and they invariably state that &#8220;the political person in charge said &#8216;What the defendant did is very bad and we are determined to stamp it out, bla bla bla.&#8221;  I always ask, &#8220;Did <b>you</b> hear her say that?  So why are we saying she did?&#8221;  As though the first thing the boss does every morning is pick up a sheet of paper with a list of high-minded sentences, and read each one to the empty air.   Enunciating clearly and distinctly.</p>
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		<title>By: c.l. ball</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266670</link>
		<dc:creator>c.l. ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266670</guid>
		<description>The 2 paragraphs are discussing different practices. 

&quot;Balance-seeking&quot; drives journalists to call  people until they get a counter-perspective for the story, and &#039;would you agree that x ’ is the fastest way to get those. The problem with this is that it assumes clear dichotomies exist. There are many cases when there are more than one alternative position, and those are not necessarily compatible. Take the Obama &quot;more troops to Afghanistan&quot; stories. The counter-view is from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/washington/18web-troops.html?fta=y&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;leftist anti-war&lt;/a&gt; groups, but this ignores the rightist opponents of the Afghan war (e.g., Michael Scheuer types). To the thoughtful interviewees,  the journalist is not asking their expert views, but asking them to express an almost-obvious point. They are not &quot;spin[ning] the interpretation of the facts&quot;; they are setting up an often simplistic dichotomy.  

&quot;Opinion laundering,&quot; as Henry describes it, is different. If the  journalist (be it blogger, columnist, reporter, or anchor) wants to disguise the origins of a position, he or she is not seeking balance but seeking a false &quot;neutral&quot; party. Rather than have, say, a PR flack from the AMA or the SEIU argue over whether a single-payer healthcare system is good or bad, two academic healthcare &quot;experts&quot; are brought into the fray, each expected to advocate his or her line to the hilt.

The real problem is the lack of an arbitrator. The reader, listener, or viewer is presented with expert saying &quot;x&quot;  and another saying &quot;not-x&quot; and is expected to just decide. The value of interviewing academics ought to be that we can say evaluate the pros and cons, and suggest what the trade-offs are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The 2 paragraphs are discussing different practices.</p>

	<p>&#8220;Balance-seeking&#8221; drives journalists to call  people until they get a counter-perspective for the story, and &#8216;would you agree that x &#8217; is the fastest way to get those. The problem with this is that it assumes clear dichotomies exist. There are many cases when there are more than one alternative position, and those are not necessarily compatible. Take the Obama &#8220;more troops to Afghanistan&#8221; stories. The counter-view is from <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/washington/18web-troops.html?fta=y" rel="nofollow">leftist anti-war</a> groups, but this ignores the rightist opponents of the Afghan war (e.g., Michael Scheuer types). To the thoughtful interviewees,  the journalist is not asking their expert views, but asking them to express an almost-obvious point. They are not &#8220;spin[ning] the interpretation of the facts&#8221;; they are setting up an often simplistic dichotomy.</p>

	<p>&#8220;Opinion laundering,&#8221; as Henry describes it, is different. If the  journalist (be it blogger, columnist, reporter, or anchor) wants to disguise the origins of a position, he or she is not seeking balance but seeking a false &#8220;neutral&#8221; party. Rather than have, say, a PR flack from the <span class="caps">AMA</span> or the <span class="caps">SEIU</span> argue over whether a single-payer healthcare system is good or bad, two academic healthcare &#8220;experts&#8221; are brought into the fray, each expected to advocate his or her line to the hilt.</p>

	<p>The real problem is the lack of an arbitrator. The reader, listener, or viewer is presented with expert saying &#8220;x&#8221;  and another saying &#8220;not-x&#8221; and is expected to just decide. The value of interviewing academics ought to be that we can say evaluate the pros and cons, and suggest what the trade-offs are.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266630</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266630</guid>
		<description>c&amp;b, in a media landscape that has Josh Marshall winning a Polk Award, political blogs with more readers than medium-sized metro dailies, America&#039;s most prestigious dailies putting their institutional muscle behind numerous blogs, and on and on, I don&#039;t think that the dichotomy you propose between blogging and journalism holds up anymore (if indeed it ever did).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>c&#038;b, in a media landscape that has Josh Marshall winning a Polk Award, political blogs with more readers than medium-sized metro dailies, America&#8217;s most prestigious dailies putting their institutional muscle behind numerous blogs, and on and on, I don&#8217;t think that the dichotomy you propose between blogging and journalism holds up anymore (if indeed it ever did).</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266582</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266582</guid>
		<description>Sorry about the anti-semitic troll - I try to read all comments on my posts, but sometimes miss one (and when it&#039;s one like this, people should feel free to email me to bring it to my attention).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry about the anti-semitic troll &#8211; I try to read all comments on my posts, but sometimes miss one (and when it&#8217;s one like this, people should feel free to email me to bring it to my attention).</p>
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		<title>By: anti-semitic troll</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266581</link>
		<dc:creator>anti-semitic troll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266581</guid>
		<description>deleted post</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>deleted post</p>
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		<title>By: cashandburn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266579</link>
		<dc:creator>cashandburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266579</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;surely it’s not a good convention—- more what the interweb would call “sock puppetry&lt;/i&gt;

You seem to be falling into the same trap as the main piece - what I sometimes call the lure of the false comparator.

The choice (we) journalists have is not between the perfect, objective quote from an untouchable, authoritative source, but between many different imperfect options.

How about stories with no quotes? Just bare lists of facts and journalists&#039; presumptions?

How about stories with lots of conflicting quotes and views? How long would people continue reading them?

To an extent &#039;sock puppetry&#039; is just bad journalism, but having actual quotes from actual people in real time is what makes journalism different from blogging.  

There&#039;s a world of difference between thinking something and writing something chatty about it, and trying to find stories, cajole people to go on the record, get certain views said out loud (rather than in private, amongst themselves). One has consequences, the other likely not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>surely it&#8217;s not a good convention&#8212;- more what the interweb would call &#8220;sock puppetry</i></p>

	<p>You seem to be falling into the same trap as the main piece &#8211; what I sometimes call the lure of the false comparator.</p>

	<p>The choice (we) journalists have is not between the perfect, objective quote from an untouchable, authoritative source, but between many different imperfect options.</p>

	<p>How about stories with no quotes? Just bare lists of facts and journalists&#8217; presumptions?</p>

	<p>How about stories with lots of conflicting quotes and views? How long would people continue reading them?</p>

	<p>To an extent &#8216;sock puppetry&#8217; is just bad journalism, but having actual quotes from actual people in real time is what makes journalism different from blogging.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s a world of difference between thinking something and writing something chatty about it, and trying to find stories, cajole people to go on the record, get certain views said out loud (rather than in private, amongst themselves). One has consequences, the other likely not.</p>
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		<title>By: BBB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266577</link>
		<dc:creator>BBB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266577</guid>
		<description>I have never seen &#039;for the good of the people&#039; in any European newspaper - what was the context? Can you cite an example? As a European I find &#039;people familiar with the matter said...&#039; weird, and I always wonder who these people are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have never seen &#8216;for the good of the people&#8217; in any European newspaper &#8211; what was the context? Can you cite an example? As a European I find &#8216;people familiar with the matter said&#8230;&#8217; weird, and I always wonder who these people are.</p>
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		<title>By: Watson Aname</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266569</link>
		<dc:creator>Watson Aname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266569</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Surely it is not an “odd” convention that US journalists do not tell us their views but a rather good one. &lt;/i&gt;

Wasn&#039;t the point of discussion above that they do, in fact, tell us their views, they just route them through a source first.  If that&#039;s all that is going on (and I don&#039;t believe it is universally) then surely it&#039;s not a good convention --- more what the interweb would call &quot;sock puppetry&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Surely it is not an &#8220;odd&#8221; convention that US journalists do not tell us their views but a rather good one. </i></p>

	<p>Wasn&#8217;t the point of discussion above that they do, in fact, tell us their views, they just route them through a source first.  If that&#8217;s all that is going on (and I don&#8217;t believe it is universally) then surely it&#8217;s not a good convention&#8212;- more what the interweb would call &#8220;sock puppetry&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266562</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266562</guid>
		<description>Cosma-  Thanks for that.  I was waiting for someone to call LF out on his antisemitism.  I&#039;m surprised that it took so long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Cosma-  Thanks for that.  I was waiting for someone to call LF out on his antisemitism.  I&#8217;m surprised that it took so long.</p>
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		<title>By: cashandburn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266553</link>
		<dc:creator>cashandburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266553</guid>
		<description>Surely it is not an &quot;odd&quot; convention that US journalists do not tell us their views but a rather good one. The alternative is clearly worse.

And for opinion shopping, again surely it is better that you find someone with a name and a title, because then others can draw their own conclusions about whether that source of opinion is valid or not. It might not be perfect, but again the alternative is worse.

The worst crime in this sense is to use loaded phrases like &quot;the leading academic in the field&quot; rather than statements of fact. See Malcolm Gladwell for repeated errors in this regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Surely it is not an &#8220;odd&#8221; convention that US journalists do not tell us their views but a rather good one. The alternative is clearly worse.</p>

	<p>And for opinion shopping, again surely it is better that you find someone with a name and a title, because then others can draw their own conclusions about whether that source of opinion is valid or not. It might not be perfect, but again the alternative is worse.</p>

	<p>The worst crime in this sense is to use loaded phrases like &#8220;the leading academic in the field&#8221; rather than statements of fact. See Malcolm Gladwell for repeated errors in this regard.</p>
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		<title>By: Cosma</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266552</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266552</guid>
		<description>LF @8: &lt;i&gt;Or perhaps it’s the unitary nature of an industry that is so disproportionately owned and managed by one particular religious-ethnic minority that seems to thrive on keeping its host population disorganized with respect to thought and true analysis.&lt;/i&gt;

Calls for cossack rampages belong in another thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">LF </span>@8: <i>Or perhaps it&#8217;s the unitary nature of an industry that is so disproportionately owned and managed by one particular religious-ethnic minority that seems to thrive on keeping its host population disorganized with respect to thought and true analysis.</i></p>

	<p>Calls for cossack rampages belong in another thread.</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266551</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266551</guid>
		<description>Doug, I was talking about Western Europe (didn&#039;t know that about Eastern Europe, thanks for that) where &quot;for the good of the people&quot; has become the substitute for any argument. I kind of agree on European press: they write as if every piece is, ultimately, an opinion piece. And that&#039;s even worse if you consider their opinion pieces which seldom go farther than reciting clichés of the day (or the voxpop of yesterday). On top of that we can forget about lines of questioning to reveal something we didn&#039;t know: the journalist knows his punchline. (S)he steadily and sturdily works towards it (after which the interviewee can nod in the background). No - Katie McCouric would have no place in European journalism.

Are US newspapers better? Who knows? Does anybody - except the likes of us - bother to read them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Doug, I was talking about Western Europe (didn&#8217;t know that about Eastern Europe, thanks for that) where &#8220;for the good of the people&#8221; has become the substitute for any argument. I kind of agree on European press: they write as if every piece is, ultimately, an opinion piece. And that&#8217;s even worse if you consider their opinion pieces which seldom go farther than reciting clich&#233;s of the day (or the voxpop of yesterday). On top of that we can forget about lines of questioning to reveal something we didn&#8217;t know: the journalist knows his punchline. (S)he steadily and sturdily works towards it (after which the interviewee can nod in the background). No &#8211; Katie McCouric would have no place in European journalism.</p>

	<p>Are US newspapers better? Who knows? Does anybody &#8211; except the likes of us &#8211; bother to read them?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266454</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266454</guid>
		<description>JoB, in Central and Eastern Europe, &quot;everyone knows&quot; also came from the period of samizdat and dissident publications, when there were indeed things that everyone knew but which could not be publicly said. But times have changed, and the journalistic conventions need to keep changing with them. (And they may have; it&#039;s not like I keep up with the Hungarian press these days.)

I don&#039;t know if there&#039;s a happy medium, still less a happy medium that is economically viable. On the one hand, parts of the American press have been hitting the &lt;i&gt;reductio ad absurdum&lt;/i&gt; of he-said, she-said for quite some time now. If &lt;i&gt;The Onion&lt;/i&gt; hasn&#039;t had a piece with the headline &quot;Shape of Earth: Opinions Differ&quot;, it&#039;s not for lack of recent opportunity. On the other hand, reporters for the &lt;i&gt;Frankfurter Allgemeine&lt;/i&gt;, for example, regularly insert opinions into news articles in ways that I think would rightly be a firing offense at a US paper. I don&#039;t have an example immediately to hand, but the basic sin is substituting an opinion for reporting in such a way that the overall article misleads readers.

On the American side, it would be good for reporters to come to a conclusion from time to time, and to do that in plain English, not some code only available to people reading as closely as Sovietologists once parsed &lt;i&gt;Pravda&lt;/i&gt;. On the European side, it would be good for reporters to back up their assertions, particularly at papers like the FAZ that have a news hole US journalists can only dream about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JoB, in Central and Eastern Europe, &#8220;everyone knows&#8221; also came from the period of samizdat and dissident publications, when there were indeed things that everyone knew but which could not be publicly said. But times have changed, and the journalistic conventions need to keep changing with them. (And they may have; it&#8217;s not like I keep up with the Hungarian press these days.)</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s a happy medium, still less a happy medium that is economically viable. On the one hand, parts of the American press have been hitting the <i>reductio ad absurdum</i> of he-said, she-said for quite some time now. If <i>The Onion</i> hasn&#8217;t had a piece with the headline &#8220;Shape of Earth: Opinions Differ&#8221;, it&#8217;s not for lack of recent opportunity. On the other hand, reporters for the <i>Frankfurter Allgemeine</i>, for example, regularly insert opinions into news articles in ways that I think would rightly be a firing offense at a US paper. I don&#8217;t have an example immediately to hand, but the basic sin is substituting an opinion for reporting in such a way that the overall article misleads readers.</p>

	<p>On the American side, it would be good for reporters to come to a conclusion from time to time, and to do that in plain English, not some code only available to people reading as closely as Sovietologists once parsed <i>Pravda</i>. On the European side, it would be good for reporters to back up their assertions, particularly at papers like the <span class="caps">FAZ</span> that have a news hole US journalists can only dream about.</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/16/opinion-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-266210</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9598#comment-266210</guid>
		<description>Doug-2, the “everyone knows” bit comes from the European politicians&#039; cue of &quot;for the good of the people&quot; which invariably introduces views peculiar to their conviction - or was it vice versa? Lucky for the both I don&#039;t have a revolver ;-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Doug-2, the &#8220;everyone knows&#8221; bit comes from the European politicians&#8217; cue of &#8220;for the good of the people&#8221; which invariably introduces views peculiar to their conviction &#8211; or was it vice versa? Lucky for the both I don&#8217;t have a revolver ;-(</p>
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