<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Social democrats and capitalism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:25:27 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266960</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266960</guid>
		<description>Vis-a-vis the New Left and in light of his concrete political activities, Michael Harrington was a social democrat, pure and simple. In theory, however, he was firmly committed to socialism and considered himself, with sufficient reason, a socialist (in short, that means he could not rest content with any of the current versions of the welfare state and believed capitalism could in fact be transcended by a socialist society; incidentally, while he thought such a society would have a place for &#039;markets,&#039; he explained what is troubling about the phrase &#039;market socialism&#039;). And he did, in fact and contra Berman, appreciate the virtues of capitalism. Please see, for instance,  his last book, written while he was dying of cancer: &lt;i&gt;Socialism: Past and Future&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt; (New York: Arcade, 1989). I suspect very few people have actually read this book.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Vis-a-vis the New Left and in light of his concrete political activities, Michael Harrington was a social democrat, pure and simple. In theory, however, he was firmly committed to socialism and considered himself, with sufficient reason, a socialist (in short, that means he could not rest content with any of the current versions of the welfare state and believed capitalism could in fact be transcended by a socialist society; incidentally, while he thought such a society would have a place for &#8216;markets,&#8217; he explained what is troubling about the phrase &#8216;market socialism&#8217;). And he did, in fact and contra Berman, appreciate the virtues of capitalism. Please see, for instance,  his last book, written while he was dying of cancer: <i>Socialism: Past and Future</i><i> (New York: Arcade, 1989). I suspect very few people have actually read this book.</i></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266927</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266927</guid>
		<description>Roger - time trend data from the Heritage Foundation is available at http://www.heritage.org/Index/Explore.aspx?view=by-time
The USA and Australia have been rather similar by this index for most of that period, although they swapped places, Australia started off slightly less free than the USA according to the Index. Singapore and Hong Kong have remained at the top of the index, above the USA for the time period covered. 
The Heritage Foundation&#039;s measures look at things like financial regulation, corruption, level of tariffs, corruption, etc, it doesn&#039;t look at output measures like GDP, growth in GDP, or for that matter the share of the financial sector in GDP.    I do not know what financial regulations the Irish are planning to introduce this year, they may or may not wind up lower in the rankings than the USA, that is dependent also on what the USA does this year in the field of financial regulation. 
I picked up on your statement about the USA being the most laissez faire of developed nations because if you are going to do macroeconomies properly as a science you need to be able to be careful about what you are saying about the world and why you are saying it. (I&#039;m not saying that no scientist ever makes a mistake, but generally it adds to confusion if you get facts about the world even slightly wrong).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Roger &#8211; time trend data from the Heritage Foundation is available at <a href="http://www.heritage.org/Index/Explore.aspx?view=by-time" rel="nofollow">http://www.heritage.org/Index/Explore.aspx?view=by-time</a><br />
The <span class="caps">USA</span> and Australia have been rather similar by this index for most of that period, although they swapped places, Australia started off slightly less free than the <span class="caps">USA</span> according to the Index. Singapore and Hong Kong have remained at the top of the index, above the <span class="caps">USA</span> for the time period covered.<br />
The Heritage Foundation&#8217;s measures look at things like financial regulation, corruption, level of tariffs, corruption, etc, it doesn&#8217;t look at output measures like <span class="caps">GDP</span>, growth in <span class="caps">GDP</span>, or for that matter the share of the financial sector in <span class="caps">GDP</span>.    I do not know what financial regulations the Irish are planning to introduce this year, they may or may not wind up lower in the rankings than the <span class="caps">USA</span>, that is dependent also on what the <span class="caps">USA</span> does this year in the field of financial regulation.<br />
I picked up on your statement about the <span class="caps">USA</span> being the most laissez faire of developed nations because if you are going to do macroeconomies properly as a science you need to be able to be careful about what you are saying about the world and why you are saying it. (I&#8217;m not saying that no scientist ever makes a mistake, but generally it adds to confusion if you get facts about the world even slightly wrong).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StevenAttewell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266907</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenAttewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266907</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but that&#039;s something I never understood about the &quot;abolition of labor.&quot; At least from my reading of Marx, the idea wasn&#039;t that humans would cease to work for a living; I was always under the impression that Marx thought the emotional desire to create was a basic human drive, // to Smith&#039;s propensity to truck and barter. Rather, the idea would be that everyone would work only at some skilled craft that they derived personal satisfaction from, for say 4 hours a day, and then go off to read Shakespeare and fish in the afternoon. 

I guess that&#039;s why I&quot;ve always preferred ELR, because it emphasizes shifting the economy from a private sector &quot;create more useless widgets for people to buy&quot; only model to more of a public sector public-goods model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, but that&#8217;s something I never understood about the &#8220;abolition of labor.&#8221; At least from my reading of Marx, the idea wasn&#8217;t that humans would cease to work for a living; I was always under the impression that Marx thought the emotional desire to create was a basic human drive, // to Smith&#8217;s propensity to truck and barter. Rather, the idea would be that everyone would work only at some skilled craft that they derived personal satisfaction from, for say 4 hours a day, and then go off to read Shakespeare and fish in the afternoon.</p>

	<p>I guess that&#8217;s why I&#8221;ve always preferred <span class="caps">ELR</span>, because it emphasizes shifting the economy from a private sector &#8220;create more useless widgets for people to buy&#8221; only model to more of a public sector public-goods model.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266872</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266872</guid>
		<description>One thing I like about UBI is that it attracts lefties who &quot;get&quot; the merit of markets (since it can help eliminate poverty and unemployment traps created by the welfare state) and similtaneously works as a Trojan Horse for the abolition of labour (&quot;the capitalist road to communism&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One thing I like about <span class="caps">UBI</span> is that it attracts lefties who &#8220;get&#8221; the merit of markets (since it can help eliminate poverty and unemployment traps created by the welfare state) and similtaneously works as a Trojan Horse for the abolition of labour (&#8220;the capitalist road to communism&#8221;).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StevenAttewell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266860</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenAttewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266860</guid>
		<description>Sure, universal basic income is an example. It&#039;s big, bold, something that&#039;s easy to explain - abolish poverty now! Moreover, it deals with a major issue - stagnant/declining incomes and increasing job/wage insecurity. 

Another example might be establishing a right to a job, with the government as employer of last resort. Again, the idea is something big, bold, easy to explain, that deals with a central problem with the current economy.

Support for a 100% carbon-free alternative energy economy might be another.

You get the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sure, universal basic income is an example. It&#8217;s big, bold, something that&#8217;s easy to explain &#8211; abolish poverty now! Moreover, it deals with a major issue &#8211; stagnant/declining incomes and increasing job/wage insecurity.</p>

	<p>Another example might be establishing a right to a job, with the government as employer of last resort. Again, the idea is something big, bold, easy to explain, that deals with a central problem with the current economy.</p>

	<p>Support for a 100% carbon-free alternative energy economy might be another.</p>

	<p>You get the idea.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266824</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266824</guid>
		<description>What about universal basic income as a policy capable of restoring some radical ambition to social democratic politics while also being compatible with acceptance of markets (whatever about capitalism)?

(Cf Erik Wright&#039;s argument for &quot;basic income as a socialist project&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What about universal basic income as a policy capable of restoring some radical ambition to social democratic politics while also being compatible with acceptance of markets (whatever about capitalism)?</p>

	<p>(Cf Erik Wright&#8217;s argument for &#8220;basic income as a socialist project&#8221;.)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StevenAttewell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266819</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenAttewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266819</guid>
		<description>I think G.K at 35 is right - the lineage of social democracy in the U.S runs through the union movement, as opposed to social democratic political parties. Hence, the Reuthers, Sidney Hillman, even John L. Lewis (instrumentally, as a union leader), A.P Randolph, and many if not most of the CIO&#039;s activists and leadership in the 1930s (those who weren&#039;t out-and-out C.P members, although arguably the C.P of the Popular Front era was social-democratic in rhetoric). They tended to follow similar pathways: they generally were in the orbit of the Socialist Party in the early 30s, they either joined or were allies of the C.P during the big organizing drives of 1935-1937, they broke with the C.P over various issues (the Hitler-Stalin Pact, leadership struggles over &quot;front&quot; organizations, domestic politics, etc.), and they then became the left-most edge of the Democratic Party.

What makes this confusing is that a lot of left liberals in the U.S were social democrats in all but name (and perhaps a less developed sense of class politics) - John Kenneth Galbraith, the Keyserlings, Paul Douglas, and a lot of the other surviving New Dealers who continued in politics through the 40s-60s. What makes things even more confusing is that a lot of social democrats became  liberals out of survival when the Cold War took off and anti-communist witch hunts made being a social anything the political kiss of death. 

Interestingly, one of the things that ties the union figures together is that they tended to come out of industrial unions in industries that were dysfunctional in some fashion - the extreme seasonal swings of the auto industry, the fragmentation and cut-throat competition of the textile and garment industries, and so on. Workers in more stable industries had the luxury of focusing entirely upon the labor vs. capital struggle, but these leaders had to turn to the state out of both ideology and necessity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In regards to the article, am I the only one who sees a contradiction in Berman&#039;s argument. On the one hand, she wants &quot;the left [to] regain its old optimism and historical vision.&quot; On the other, she wants the left to focus on&quot;Helping people adjust to capitalism, rather than engaging in a hopeless and ultimately counterproductive effort to hold it back...managing globalization—promoting economic growth and increased competitiveness even as they ensure high employment and social security...[and]agitating for policies—like reliable, affordable, and portable health care; tax credits or other government support for labor-market retraining; investment in education; and unemployment programs that are both more generous and better incentivized.&quot; 

The policy just doesn&#039;t match the politics here. From the list of remedies, the political spirit that links them together is a heavy brand of technocratic pragmatism, making the best of the situation as it is. But there is such a thing as politics created by policy - and this kind of policy isn&#039;t conducive to optimism and historical vision.  Indeed, these policies aren&#039;t new; they&#039;re more or less what the mainstream of European social democracy and the U.S Democratic Party have been pushing for almost 15 years now. Arguably, one of the reasons why the left has been in such shabby shape recently (with the noted exception of the U.S, ironically), is that these policies lack either the size or scope to deal with the problem, and thus do not sufficiently impress a majority of working class voters. 

Consider the list. Among the items, universal health care is the only really major systemic reform. Retraining, education, and better unemployment benefits are all small-bore attempts to deal with the major issue of our time - the &quot;new social question&quot; of increasing unemployment, underemployment, and employment insecurity, to say nothing of increasing inequality and economic insecurity. The first two are basically labor supply measures but without any understanding that the labor demand isn&#039;t there in the private sector. The current incarnation of capitalism just isn&#039;t producing enough living wage jobs, and increasing the number of college grads isn&#039;t the answer, especially when the earnings of college grads have become stagnant/declining. Likewise, retraining credits/U.I/&quot;wage insurance&quot; are unlikely to make up for the lost income that should have been coming, given increases in productivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think G.K at 35 is right &#8211; the lineage of social democracy in the U.S runs through the union movement, as opposed to social democratic political parties. Hence, the Reuthers, Sidney Hillman, even John L. Lewis (instrumentally, as a union leader), A.P Randolph, and many if not most of the <span class="caps">CIO</span>&#8217;s activists and leadership in the 1930s (those who weren&#8217;t out-and-out C.P members, although arguably the C.P of the Popular Front era was social-democratic in rhetoric). They tended to follow similar pathways: they generally were in the orbit of the Socialist Party in the early 30s, they either joined or were allies of the C.P during the big organizing drives of 1935-1937, they broke with the C.P over various issues (the Hitler-Stalin Pact, leadership struggles over &#8220;front&#8221; organizations, domestic politics, etc.), and they then became the left-most edge of the Democratic Party.</p>

	<p>What makes this confusing is that a lot of left liberals in the U.S were social democrats in all but name (and perhaps a less developed sense of class politics) &#8211; John Kenneth Galbraith, the Keyserlings, Paul Douglas, and a lot of the other surviving New Dealers who continued in politics through the 40s-60s. What makes things even more confusing is that a lot of social democrats became  liberals out of survival when the Cold War took off and anti-communist witch hunts made being a social anything the political kiss of death.</p>

	<p>Interestingly, one of the things that ties the union figures together is that they tended to come out of industrial unions in industries that were dysfunctional in some fashion &#8211; the extreme seasonal swings of the auto industry, the fragmentation and cut-throat competition of the textile and garment industries, and so on. Workers in more stable industries had the luxury of focusing entirely upon the labor vs. capital struggle, but these leaders had to turn to the state out of both ideology and necessity.&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
In regards to the article, am I the only one who sees a contradiction in Berman&#8217;s argument. On the one hand, she wants &#8220;the left [to] regain its old optimism and historical vision.&#8221; On the other, she wants the left to focus on&#8221;Helping people adjust to capitalism, rather than engaging in a hopeless and ultimately counterproductive effort to hold it back&#8230;managing globalization&#8212;promoting economic growth and increased competitiveness even as they ensure high employment and social security&#8230;[and]agitating for policies&#8212;like reliable, affordable, and portable health care; tax credits or other government support for labor-market retraining; investment in education; and unemployment programs that are both more generous and better incentivized.&#8221;</p>

	<p>The policy just doesn&#8217;t match the politics here. From the list of remedies, the political spirit that links them together is a heavy brand of technocratic pragmatism, making the best of the situation as it is. But there is such a thing as politics created by policy &#8211; and this kind of policy isn&#8217;t conducive to optimism and historical vision.  Indeed, these policies aren&#8217;t new; they&#8217;re more or less what the mainstream of European social democracy and the U.S Democratic Party have been pushing for almost 15 years now. Arguably, one of the reasons why the left has been in such shabby shape recently (with the noted exception of the U.S, ironically), is that these policies lack either the size or scope to deal with the problem, and thus do not sufficiently impress a majority of working class voters.</p>

	<p>Consider the list. Among the items, universal health care is the only really major systemic reform. Retraining, education, and better unemployment benefits are all small-bore attempts to deal with the major issue of our time &#8211; the &#8220;new social question&#8221; of increasing unemployment, underemployment, and employment insecurity, to say nothing of increasing inequality and economic insecurity. The first two are basically labor supply measures but without any understanding that the labor demand isn&#8217;t there in the private sector. The current incarnation of capitalism just isn&#8217;t producing enough living wage jobs, and increasing the number of college grads isn&#8217;t the answer, especially when the earnings of college grads have become stagnant/declining. Likewise, retraining credits/U.I/&#8221;wage insurance&#8221; are unlikely to make up for the lost income that should have been coming, given increases in productivity.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bianca steele</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266812</link>
		<dc:creator>bianca steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266812</guid>
		<description>JE,
But if people think Sen. Schumer is a Communist, then people who think they want to be Communists will gravitate to Schumer.  Which I guess is support for your point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JE,<br />
But if people think Sen. Schumer is a Communist, then people who think they want to be Communists will gravitate to Schumer.  Which I guess is support for your point.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266793</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266793</guid>
		<description>Tracy W., I was discussing the U.S. over the long run, and I&#039;m not sure if the Heritage poll is over the long run or a yearly comparison. I know Australia used to be much more socialistic than the U.S., and then it went in the other direction. 
However,  this doesn&#039;t really make too much of a difference to the point, which is that the United States is among the most laissez faire of developed nations. In fact, laissez faire nations like Ireland are not going to look very laissez faire next year, unless the Heritage Foundation overlooks the financial sector entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tracy W., I was discussing the U.S. over the long run, and I&#8217;m not sure if the Heritage poll is over the long run or a yearly comparison. I know Australia used to be much more socialistic than the U.S., and then it went in the other direction.<br />
However,  this doesn&#8217;t really make too much of a difference to the point, which is that the United States is among the most laissez faire of developed nations. In fact, laissez faire nations like Ireland are not going to look very laissez faire next year, unless the Heritage Foundation overlooks the financial sector entirely.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266772</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266772</guid>
		<description>John Quiggin,
Hong Kong may not be a nation, but it still has a separate legal structure to China.
What is ludicrous about NZ and Australia&#039;s rankings? Or about Ireland&#039;s, for that matter? I am a NZ citizen, I have lived for a few months in the USA, and I know a lot of people who live or have lived in Australia or Singapore or Ireland; nothing in my experience has led me to think that the USA is obviously more free-market than any of the other countries.  I am prepared to consider that the Heritage Foundation is measuring the wrong thing, or measuring the right thing but wrongly, but from your later comment you appear to be muddling up the question of whether a country is more free-market than the USA with the question of whether it is performing better in an economic sense. If NZ&#039;s poor economic performance tells us that the Hertiage Foundation&#039;s rankings are ludicrous as you appear to be implying, then that means that NZ is not a free-market economy and thus its poor economic performance isn&#039;t an argument against free markets. You can&#039;t have it both ways: NZ and Ireland can&#039;t be both examples of the failure of free markets and evidence that the Heritage Foundation&#039;s rankings are wrong.  Of course, it is possible that free market economies are a bad idea and the Heritage Foundation simultaneously has stuffed up its rankings, but to make that case you&#039;re going to need to bring in some outside evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Quiggin,<br />
Hong Kong may not be a nation, but it still has a separate legal structure to China.<br />
What is ludicrous about NZ and Australia&#8217;s rankings? Or about Ireland&#8217;s, for that matter? I am a NZ citizen, I have lived for a few months in the <span class="caps">USA</span>, and I know a lot of people who live or have lived in Australia or Singapore or Ireland; nothing in my experience has led me to think that the <span class="caps">USA</span> is obviously more free-market than any of the other countries.  I am prepared to consider that the Heritage Foundation is measuring the wrong thing, or measuring the right thing but wrongly, but from your later comment you appear to be muddling up the question of whether a country is more free-market than the <span class="caps">USA</span> with the question of whether it is performing better in an economic sense. If NZ&#8217;s poor economic performance tells us that the Hertiage Foundation&#8217;s rankings are ludicrous as you appear to be implying, then that means that NZ is not a free-market economy and thus its poor economic performance isn&#8217;t an argument against free markets. You can&#8217;t have it both ways: NZ and Ireland can&#8217;t be both examples of the failure of free markets and evidence that the Heritage Foundation&#8217;s rankings are wrong.  Of course, it is possible that free market economies are a bad idea and the Heritage Foundation simultaneously has stuffed up its rankings, but to make that case you&#8217;re going to need to bring in some outside evidence.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris y</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266768</link>
		<dc:creator>chris y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266768</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Please come to the US and tell us WTF it is that our health-care system is optimized for. We’re genuinely curious about that.&lt;/i&gt;

Was it not until recently optimised for the maximum profitability of the insurance market, in part so that pension funds had a reliable market in which to invest, so that they could deliver on their policies? (obviously also in part so that insurance company directors could get rich at the expense of the people they were denying health care.)

Now of course, not so much, and given that it was always pessimised(?) for delivering a healthy population, there should be a tremendous opportunity for BHO and his buddies to point out that since it no longer does the one thing it was good for well, it might be a good time to look at some assumptions again.

We shall see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Please come to the US and tell us <span class="caps">WTF</span> it is that our health-care system is optimized for. We&#8217;re genuinely curious about that.</i></p>

	<p>Was it not until recently optimised for the maximum profitability of the insurance market, in part so that pension funds had a reliable market in which to invest, so that they could deliver on their policies? (obviously also in part so that insurance company directors could get rich at the expense of the people they were denying health care.)</p>

	<p>Now of course, not so much, and given that it was always pessimised(?) for delivering a healthy population, there should be a tremendous opportunity for <span class="caps">BHO</span> and his buddies to point out that since it no longer does the one thing it was good for well, it might be a good time to look at some assumptions again.</p>

	<p>We shall see.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266759</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266759</guid>
		<description>LF - We aren&#039;t very appreciative of anti-Semites around here. You&#039;re banned. All future comments will be deleted (as have been all past comments that I can find).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">LF </span>- We aren&#8217;t very appreciative of anti-Semites around here. You&#8217;re banned. All future comments will be deleted (as have been all past comments that I can find).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266755</link>
		<dc:creator>sg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266755</guid>
		<description>Hey LF, what about adding an analysis of Australian or Japanese social democracy to your rant? There&#039;s more to this kind of discussion than contrasting the US and Sweden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey LF, what about adding an analysis of Australian or Japanese social democracy to your rant? There&#8217;s more to this kind of discussion than contrasting the US and Sweden.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266753</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266753</guid>
		<description>Look here, Novakant, who are you calling an oxymoron?

Seriously, I was just trying to point out that the word &quot;socialism&quot; originally meant popular, democratic control over the whole of social life, including the economy. Bolsheviks, Nazis, and Maoists misappropriated the term to legitimate their party dictatorship over the whole of social life, allegedly in the name of the people. Apologists for capitalism were happy to go along with this usage, since it identified  a noble ideal -- radical democracy -- with tyranny. There&#039;s no reason for contemporary radical democrats like you and me to acquiesce in this terminological travesty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Look here, Novakant, who are you calling an oxymoron?</p>

	<p>Seriously, I was just trying to point out that the word &#8220;socialism&#8221; originally meant popular, democratic control over the whole of social life, including the economy. Bolsheviks, Nazis, and Maoists misappropriated the term to legitimate their party dictatorship over the whole of social life, allegedly in the name of the people. Apologists for capitalism were happy to go along with this usage, since it identified  a noble ideal&#8212;radical democracy&#8212;with tyranny. There&#8217;s no reason for contemporary radical democrats like you and me to acquiesce in this terminological travesty.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John  Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/02/18/social-democrats-and-capitalism/comment-page-2/#comment-266752</link>
		<dc:creator>John  Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9596#comment-266752</guid>
		<description>I have said elsewhere and will repeat, if you don&#039;t have a left, the middle becomes the left and the new middle is right-center at best. Ever since WWII liberals have been doing what they could to destroy the American left, and they have been successful indeed, except for a tiny blip 1965-1975.  So now the average American thinks that Schumer is an extreme leftist and many think that he&#039;s a Communist. 

Social Democrats / Democratic Socialists really need a hard left to scare people with. Maybe if the economy collapses entirely, they&#039;ll get one. Until then, Social Democrats are horrible, unspeakable Communists in American eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have said elsewhere and will repeat, if you don&#8217;t have a left, the middle becomes the left and the new middle is right-center at best. Ever since <span class="caps">WWII</span> liberals have been doing what they could to destroy the American left, and they have been successful indeed, except for a tiny blip 1965-1975.  So now the average American thinks that Schumer is an extreme leftist and many think that he&#8217;s a Communist.</p>

	<p>Social Democrats / Democratic Socialists really need a hard left to scare people with. Maybe if the economy collapses entirely, they&#8217;ll get one. Until then, Social Democrats are horrible, unspeakable Communists in American eyes.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
