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	<title>Comments on: How much better is breastfeeding?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269417</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269417</guid>
		<description>My experience was similar to Mnemosyne&#039;s friend.  When my first son was born, I attempted to breastfeed.  Andy never latched, never got any food, and cried for three nights straight, and since labor started at midnight on May 14, that meant I didn&#039;t sleep AT ALL for FOUR MOW##$^^$ING NIGHTS.    The mother@#$%ng LLL counselor was  completely unsympathetic, and said that &quot;well, obviously your diet is wrong.  Normal women have no problem with this.&quot;   At this point my six foot five father cornered her and demanded that someone get the baby a bottle.  My husband , who had been with me the whole miserable way, gratefully accepted an Enfamil package.   My inadequate breastfeeding meant that my son had a serious blood sugar disorder and we had to stay one more day, using formula.  The formula fixed his blood sugar issues, and he is a happy, healthy 10 year old honor student today.   His brother got formula from the start, and is a happy, healthy 7 year old.  Bro, incidentally, didn&#039;t have an ear infection until he was two, despite exclusive formula feeding and being in daycare from 3 months.

I have now calmed down to the point that I no longer want to douse the LLL with gasoline and set them on fire, merely hurl large rocks at them.   In first-world countries and among middle class and up women, where there are no sanitation or water quality issues.  what the baby eats should be entirely up to the parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My experience was similar to Mnemosyne&#8217;s friend.  When my first son was born, I attempted to breastfeed.  Andy never latched, never got any food, and cried for three nights straight, and since labor started at midnight on May 14, that meant I didn&#8217;t sleep <span class="caps">AT ALL</span> for <span class="caps">FOUR MOW</span>##$<sup></sup>$ING <span class="caps">NIGHTS</span>.    The mother@#$%ng <span class="caps">LLL</span> counselor was  completely unsympathetic, and said that &#8220;well, obviously your diet is wrong.  Normal women have no problem with this.&#8221;   At this point my six foot five father cornered her and demanded that someone get the baby a bottle.  My husband , who had been with me the whole miserable way, gratefully accepted an Enfamil package.   My inadequate breastfeeding meant that my son had a serious blood sugar disorder and we had to stay one more day, using formula.  The formula fixed his blood sugar issues, and he is a happy, healthy 10 year old honor student today.   His brother got formula from the start, and is a happy, healthy 7 year old.  Bro, incidentally, didn&#8217;t have an ear infection until he was two, despite exclusive formula feeding and being in daycare from 3 months.</p>

	<p>I have now calmed down to the point that I no longer want to douse the <span class="caps">LLL</span> with gasoline and set them on fire, merely hurl large rocks at them.   In first-world countries and among middle class and up women, where there are no sanitation or water quality issues.  what the baby eats should be entirely up to the parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269407</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnemosyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269407</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What about all this BPA containing bottles? What will be the next thing which is bad for kids? While mom’s breast is mom’s breast.&lt;/i&gt;

Mom&#039;s breast is likely to have things like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livescience.com/health/050224_rocket_fuel.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;perchlorate&lt;/a&gt; in it, so you still can&#039;t make a definitive declaration that giving formula to a child is tantamount to feeding them poison.

Yes, I&#039;m still annoyed that the La Leche fascists berated my friend until she cried because she couldn&#039;t breast-feed.  You know what?  &lt;i&gt;It&#039;s not your fucking business&lt;/i&gt; what other women are doing.  Do what&#039;s best for you and your child and STFU about your horrible neighbor who&#039;s permanently damaging her children by giving them formula.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>What about all this <span class="caps">BPA</span> containing bottles? What will be the next thing which is bad for kids? While mom&#8217;s breast is mom&#8217;s breast.</i></p>

	<p>Mom&#8217;s breast is likely to have things like <a href="http://www.livescience.com/health/050224_rocket_fuel.html" rel="nofollow">perchlorate</a> in it, so you still can&#8217;t make a definitive declaration that giving formula to a child is tantamount to feeding them poison.</p>

	<p>Yes, I&#8217;m still annoyed that the La Leche fascists berated my friend until she cried because she couldn&#8217;t breast-feed.  You know what?  <i>It&#8217;s not your fucking business</i> what other women are doing.  Do what&#8217;s best for you and your child and <span class="caps">STFU</span> about your horrible neighbor who&#8217;s permanently damaging her children by giving them formula.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Roberts</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269392</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269392</guid>
		<description>a) No matter how you feed your child, it will very likely be extremely stressful and time-consuming.
b) No matter how you feed your child, you should not expect to get enough sleep for many months on end.
c) No matter how you feed your child, finding some sort of equitable way of dividing the labor will likely be quite difficult, and will be exacerbated by a) and b).
d) The Rosin article was complete shit, imho, in that it only managed to show that breast-milk will not usher in the long-awaited age of love, harmony, and kool-aid seas.  
e) The absence in the US of anything like a humane family leave policy is a far bigger problem for women&#039;s equality than is breast-feeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>a) No matter how you feed your child, it will very likely be extremely stressful and time-consuming.<br />
b) No matter how you feed your child, you should not expect to get enough sleep for many months on end.<br />
c) No matter how you feed your child, finding some sort of equitable way of dividing the labor will likely be quite difficult, and will be exacerbated by a) and b).<br />
d) The Rosin article was complete shit, imho, in that it only managed to show that breast-milk will not usher in the long-awaited age of love, harmony, and kool-aid seas.<br />
e) The absence in the US of anything like a humane family leave policy is a far bigger problem for women&#8217;s equality than is breast-feeding.</p>
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		<title>By: lemmy caution</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269302</link>
		<dc:creator>lemmy caution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269302</guid>
		<description>It  probably is not the case that breastfeeding improves babies&#039; IQs:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/545523

Apparently, if you control for parental characteristics, there isn&#039;t any IQ benefit.

&lt;i&gt;I highly recommend the book The Nurture Assumption by Judith Harris. It’s not about breastfeeding per se, but its take-home message is that unless you actually abuse your kids, how they grow up won’t depend much on what you do.&lt;/i&gt;

That book is awesome.  

Here is the latest in &quot;It doesn&#039;t matter what parents do&quot; news:

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/02/food_and_the_fa.html

 Apparently, there is almost no parental environmental influence on kids BMIs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It  probably is not the case that breastfeeding improves babies&#8217; IQs:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/545523" rel="nofollow">http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/545523</a></p>

	<p>Apparently, if you control for parental characteristics, there isn&#8217;t any IQ benefit.</p>

	<p><i>I highly recommend the book The Nurture Assumption by Judith Harris. It&#8217;s not about breastfeeding per se, but its take-home message is that unless you actually abuse your kids, how they grow up won&#8217;t depend much on what you do.</i></p>

	<p>That book is awesome.</p>

	<p>Here is the latest in &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter what parents do&#8221; news:</p>

	<p><a href="http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/02/food_and_the_fa.html" rel="nofollow">http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/02/food_and_the_fa.html</a></p>

	<p>Apparently, there is almost no parental environmental influence on kids BMIs.</p>
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		<title>By: harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269291</link>
		<dc:creator>harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269291</guid>
		<description>I saw a clip of Roisin this morning and I don&#039;t think her article was sincere. She is breastfeeding her third baby and never had any intention to stop or to consider switching to formula. She is posturing. And her posture is that other people but not &lt;i&gt;she&lt;/i&gt; are making mothers who use formula feel guilty.  &quot;Formula is great if you can&#039;t or don&#039;t want to breast feed&quot; is the (non) message. And of course, it follows that the makers of formula have only the best interests of women at heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I saw a clip of Roisin this morning and I don&#8217;t think her article was sincere. She is breastfeeding her third baby and never had any intention to stop or to consider switching to formula. She is posturing. And her posture is that other people but not <i>she</i> are making mothers who use formula feel guilty.  &#8220;Formula is great if you can&#8217;t or don&#8217;t want to breast feed&#8221; is the (non) message. And of course, it follows that the makers of formula have only the best interests of women at heart.</p>
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		<title>By: lisa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269288</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269288</guid>
		<description>I always suspected there is some kind of ideology going into the hammering home of the benefits of breast milk at every turn.  I admit, I welcomed this when I was breastfeeding because I felt like, the more people believed that breastmilk is an absolute necessity, and formula a deadly poison,  the less I would be harassed for feeding my baby in public.  (Of course, there are always those people who expect women to confine themselves to the home if they are breastfeeding and don&#039;t understand that sometimes you actually have to go out into public, with your infant.) 

This is a very difficult thing, feeding your baby in public.  There were many places I did it where I would feel this frisson of fear that I would be kicked out of wherever I was. It wasn&#039;t that I cared if anyone saw my breasts. That was not the issue for me. The issue was all the stories I heard about women being harassed or ejected from stores, restaurants, airplanes. Jon Stewart even ridiculed a woman for breastfeeding during some political meeting on CSPAN. This made me cry for hours (post-partum weepiness).

I breastfed primarily because it was free, convenient and my baby loved it.  The fact that formula was supposed to be bad for babies did deter me from giving more formula than I did, but we did supplement.  A comparison between formula fed and breastfed people I knew made it kind of clear my child would not become some super-being, free of all disease, by breastmilk.  

Breastfeeding did not hamper egalitarianism. In a way, my marriage became inegalitarian when I was breastfeeding because my husband started to do the laundry then and years later, he&#039;s still doing it.  I got a hand-free thing to wear and pumped out a lot of breastmilk while I was also working.  My husband did a lot of bottle feeding. 

A strange side-effect of breastfeeding that I rarely hear people discuss is that, when you breastfeed, your body produces certain kinds of hormones that relax you and also make you sleep. So as a lifelong insomniac, I had this instant sleeping pill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always suspected there is some kind of ideology going into the hammering home of the benefits of breast milk at every turn.  I admit, I welcomed this when I was breastfeeding because I felt like, the more people believed that breastmilk is an absolute necessity, and formula a deadly poison,  the less I would be harassed for feeding my baby in public.  (Of course, there are always those people who expect women to confine themselves to the home if they are breastfeeding and don&#8217;t understand that sometimes you actually have to go out into public, with your infant.)</p>

	<p>This is a very difficult thing, feeding your baby in public.  There were many places I did it where I would feel this frisson of fear that I would be kicked out of wherever I was. It wasn&#8217;t that I cared if anyone saw my breasts. That was not the issue for me. The issue was all the stories I heard about women being harassed or ejected from stores, restaurants, airplanes. Jon Stewart even ridiculed a woman for breastfeeding during some political meeting on <span class="caps">CSPAN</span>. This made me cry for hours (post-partum weepiness).</p>

	<p>I breastfed primarily because it was free, convenient and my baby loved it.  The fact that formula was supposed to be bad for babies did deter me from giving more formula than I did, but we did supplement.  A comparison between formula fed and breastfed people I knew made it kind of clear my child would not become some super-being, free of all disease, by breastmilk.</p>

	<p>Breastfeeding did not hamper egalitarianism. In a way, my marriage became inegalitarian when I was breastfeeding because my husband started to do the laundry then and years later, he&#8217;s still doing it.  I got a hand-free thing to wear and pumped out a lot of breastmilk while I was also working.  My husband did a lot of bottle feeding.</p>

	<p>A strange side-effect of breastfeeding that I rarely hear people discuss is that, when you breastfeed, your body produces certain kinds of hormones that relax you and also make you sleep. So as a lifelong insomniac, I had this instant sleeping pill.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269281</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269281</guid>
		<description>In a straw poll of siblings, friends and colleagues born between 1955 and 1970, none of us (a sample of 25) were breastfed. Not one. We all have university degrees, good overall health (except for one individual currently in treatment for breast cancer thought to be caused by exposure during the Chernobyl incident) and few allergies beyond the occasional incidence of hayfever.

That said, I breastfed my two children, I enjoyed doing so and found it much easier than dealing with bottles, largely because I kept trying to sterilise bottles and bits and pieces, forgot I&#039;d left them on the stove and was later alerted by the fragrant scent of burning plastic. My nipples never needed sterilising. On the other hand, most of my friends and relatives have used formula either from birth or had to turn to it because the breast feeding didn&#039;t work out. My breast-fed elder son had atrocious eczema, my formula-fed nieces and nephews seem to have had many more ear and throat infections. I don&#039;t know that their primary food source as babies made that much difference. What I do dislike is the idea that any family should be made to feel bad about the choices it makes based on its own situation and circumstances regarding breastfeeding. Because in the long run, I don&#039;t think it matters that much. I have never heard of anyone having diabetes or heart conditions or cancer because of what they were fed as babies. And we have had sufficient generations of non-breast fed babies to know that it doesn&#039;t matter. 

What does enrage me is situations like Nestle in Africa/India trying to persuade poor mothers who can ill afford it to buy formula when their breast-milk is essentially free and they do not live in sufficiently sanitary conditions to keep the kit sterile, causing unnecessary illness in small babies. And then of course there was last year&#039;s Chinese baby-milk scandal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In a straw poll of siblings, friends and colleagues born between 1955 and 1970, none of us (a sample of 25) were breastfed. Not one. We all have university degrees, good overall health (except for one individual currently in treatment for breast cancer thought to be caused by exposure during the Chernobyl incident) and few allergies beyond the occasional incidence of hayfever.</p>

	<p>That said, I breastfed my two children, I enjoyed doing so and found it much easier than dealing with bottles, largely because I kept trying to sterilise bottles and bits and pieces, forgot I&#8217;d left them on the stove and was later alerted by the fragrant scent of burning plastic. My nipples never needed sterilising. On the other hand, most of my friends and relatives have used formula either from birth or had to turn to it because the breast feeding didn&#8217;t work out. My breast-fed elder son had atrocious eczema, my formula-fed nieces and nephews seem to have had many more ear and throat infections. I don&#8217;t know that their primary food source as babies made that much difference. What I do dislike is the idea that any family should be made to feel bad about the choices it makes based on its own situation and circumstances regarding breastfeeding. Because in the long run, I don&#8217;t think it matters that much. I have never heard of anyone having diabetes or heart conditions or cancer because of what they were fed as babies. And we have had sufficient generations of non-breast fed babies to know that it doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>

	<p>What does enrage me is situations like Nestle in Africa/India trying to persuade poor mothers who can ill afford it to buy formula when their breast-milk is essentially free and they do not live in sufficiently sanitary conditions to keep the kit sterile, causing unnecessary illness in small babies. And then of course there was last year&#8217;s Chinese baby-milk scandal.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Crichton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269280</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Crichton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269280</guid>
		<description>harry b said:
&lt;i&gt;A large proportion of babies living in the developed world are descended from at least one person who, in nature, would not have been breastfed by his or her mother.&lt;/i&gt;

In a pre-invention-of-baby-formula society, they would have been breastfed by someone else, or they would have died soon after the mother. 

Dan Simon worte:
&lt;i&gt;Around here, for example, breastfeeding babies all have to get vitamin D supplements, because most adults are deficient. The drops apparently taste terrible, because babies hate them and tend to spit them out.&lt;/i&gt;

Wouldn&#039;t it make much more sense for the mothers to take the supplements? That way, both people benefit from the same pills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>harry b said:<br />
<i>A large proportion of babies living in the developed world are descended from at least one person who, in nature, would not have been breastfed by his or her mother.</i></p>

	<p>In a pre-invention-of-baby-formula society, they would have been breastfed by someone else, or they would have died soon after the mother.</p>

	<p>Dan Simon worte:<br />
<i>Around here, for example, breastfeeding babies all have to get vitamin D supplements, because most adults are deficient. The drops apparently taste terrible, because babies hate them and tend to spit them out.</i></p>

	<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make much more sense for the mothers to take the supplements? That way, both people benefit from the same pills.</p>
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		<title>By: harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269234</link>
		<dc:creator>harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269234</guid>
		<description>Breast feeding may have marginal benefits for the individual but at the same time the social benefits could be substantial. It seems to me that similar arguments can be made against bottle feeding that can me made against bottled water. It constitutes privatization of a resource that is or ought to be local, healthful, and free. 

Also, I have an old friend who is a scientist, who tells me that they are always planning or considering putting something new in formula -- more vitamin D, &quot;beneficial bacteria&quot; and so on. This makes you think that if there&#039;s something wrong or inadequate about formula it has the potential to affect millions of infants because of the centralized source of the product. This friend (male) won&#039;t buy anything made by Nestle because of their pushing formula in third world countries. He studies human perception in infants and he says that studies confirm the baby can perceive what the mother eats through breast milk (and in the womb), so that if all babies are drinking formula, they are getting a grayed-out standardized taste palate, made to please babies (like the sugar they put in Macdonalds hamburger), but at a cost to human culinary cultural diversity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Breast feeding may have marginal benefits for the individual but at the same time the social benefits could be substantial. It seems to me that similar arguments can be made against bottle feeding that can me made against bottled water. It constitutes privatization of a resource that is or ought to be local, healthful, and free.</p>

	<p>Also, I have an old friend who is a scientist, who tells me that they are always planning or considering putting something new in formula&#8212;more vitamin D, &#8220;beneficial bacteria&#8221; and so on. This makes you think that if there&#8217;s something wrong or inadequate about formula it has the potential to affect millions of infants because of the centralized source of the product. This friend (male) won&#8217;t buy anything made by Nestle because of their pushing formula in third world countries. He studies human perception in infants and he says that studies confirm the baby can perceive what the mother eats through breast milk (and in the womb), so that if all babies are drinking formula, they are getting a grayed-out standardized taste palate, made to please babies (like the sugar they put in Macdonalds hamburger), but at a cost to human culinary cultural diversity.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269199</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 03:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269199</guid>
		<description>Her article reminded me of the global warming deniers.  &quot;Oh, well, this study had these problems, so we really don&#039;t know anything.  And those &#039;experts&#039; are just politically motivated.&quot;  Meanwhile ignoring perfectly good data (like the 17,000 Belarus infants) for a significant, if modest, benefit, because it didn&#039;t support her inclination.

Her inclination being: this seems unfair! It puts a lot of burdens on women!  It shouldn&#039;t be true that this is better!  And then, magically, it&#039;s not better.

Is she 5?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Her article reminded me of the global warming deniers.  &#8220;Oh, well, this study had these problems, so we really don&#8217;t know anything.  And those &#8216;experts&#8217; are just politically motivated.&#8221;  Meanwhile ignoring perfectly good data (like the 17,000 Belarus infants) for a significant, if modest, benefit, because it didn&#8217;t support her inclination.</p>

	<p>Her inclination being: this seems unfair! It puts a lot of burdens on women!  It shouldn&#8217;t be true that this is better!  And then, magically, it&#8217;s not better.</p>

	<p>Is she 5?</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269154</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269154</guid>
		<description>Alison @ #77 - well said.  I and my husband strive mightily to achieve a &quot;gender egalitarian&quot; marriage, and I don&#039;t personally find breasfeeding to be more of a barrier to tha than every other thingthrown at us by the world.  Yes, I am physicaly tied to our child in a way that he is not, but since his view is that being a father is wonderful thing, he is as much mentally and emotionally tied to her as I am physically tied.

Gender equality doesn&#039;t mean both parties doing 50% of everything all the time - if one thing is 60/40, or another 45/55, or whatever - as long as you are conscious of the differences, and have made self-aware choices in respect of those difference, and it evens out to 50/50 overall, then I&#039;d say that works out to something approximating equality to the extent allowed by the modern world.  That&#039;s the way it works with everything surely, not just the feeding of one&#039;s child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Alison @ #77 &#8211; well said.  I and my husband strive mightily to achieve a &#8220;gender egalitarian&#8221; marriage, and I don&#8217;t personally find breasfeeding to be more of a barrier to tha than every other thingthrown at us by the world.  Yes, I am physicaly tied to our child in a way that he is not, but since his view is that being a father is wonderful thing, he is as much mentally and emotionally tied to her as I am physically tied.</p>

	<p>Gender equality doesn&#8217;t mean both parties doing 50% of everything all the time &#8211; if one thing is 60/40, or another 45/55, or whatever &#8211; as long as you are conscious of the differences, and have made self-aware choices in respect of those difference, and it evens out to 50/50 overall, then I&#8217;d say that works out to something approximating equality to the extent allowed by the modern world.  That&#8217;s the way it works with everything surely, not just the feeding of one&#8217;s child.</p>
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		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269121</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269121</guid>
		<description>#67: 
&lt;i&gt;There has been a load of research done&lt;/i&gt;
Load of.
Organic farmers having achieved total parity with the agro-industrial complex sometime in 1987 that research should be all we need to hear about that.
#72: 
&lt;i&gt;one fact that springs out is that industrial pork is apparently free of trichinosis&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;One of the first clues that pigs could infect people with MRSA came in the Netherlands in 2004, when a young woman tested positive for a new strain of MRSA, called ST398. The family lived on a farm, so public health authorities swept in — and found that three family members, three co-workers and 8 of 10 pigs tested all carried MRSA.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/opinion/12kristof.html?_r=2&amp;em&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NYTimes&lt;/a&gt;
The social context in which this debate takes place is one that saw breast-feeding mothers arrested for public obscenity for feeding their children in restaurants a few decades ago, when it was a revolutionary act, and unthinkable previously.
That&#039;s straight up pathology, endemic, culture-wide. 
Have we emerged far enough from that sickness to guarantee absence of residual, subliminal bias?
Cheers and big ups to Ana Folpe for cogent, articulate, and inspirationally reasoned argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#67:<br />
<i>There has been a load of research done</i><br />
Load of.<br />
Organic farmers having achieved total parity with the agro-industrial complex sometime in 1987 that research should be all we need to hear about that.</p>
	<p>#72:<br />
<i>one fact that springs out is that industrial pork is apparently free of trichinosis</i><br />
<blockquote>One of the first clues that pigs could infect people with <span class="caps">MRSA</span> came in the Netherlands in 2004, when a young woman tested positive for a new strain of <span class="caps">MRSA</span>, called <span class="caps">ST398</span>. The family lived on a farm, so public health authorities swept in &#8212; and found that three family members, three co-workers and 8 of 10 pigs tested all carried <span class="caps">MRSA</span>.</blockquote><br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/opinion/12kristof.html?_r=2&#038;em" rel="nofollow">NYTimes</a><br />
The social context in which this debate takes place is one that saw breast-feeding mothers arrested for public obscenity for feeding their children in restaurants a few decades ago, when it was a revolutionary act, and unthinkable previously.<br />
That&#8217;s straight up pathology, endemic, culture-wide.<br />
Have we emerged far enough from that sickness to guarantee absence of residual, subliminal bias?<br />
Cheers and big ups to Ana Folpe for cogent, articulate, and inspirationally reasoned argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269119</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269119</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;breast feeding has a down side (at least, I think its a down side, but people who don’t care about this might think it is an upside) of making gender egalitarian marriages harder to achieve&lt;/i&gt;

If the mother feels put-upon and resentful when she&#039;s breast-feeding, she probably shouldn&#039;t do it. Once you (plural) have committed to breast, there&#039;s a huge element of childcare which the father is never going to be part of, and there&#039;s no real way of making it up. With our kids - especially the first - I was the resentful one, sitting downstairs wondering if this was it for the evening; my wife saw feeding as something she ought to do, was happy to do and enjoyed doing (mostly - early mornings were tough).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>breast feeding has a down side (at least, I think its a down side, but people who don&#8217;t care about this might think it is an upside) of making gender egalitarian marriages harder to achieve</i></p>

	<p>If the mother feels put-upon and resentful when she&#8217;s breast-feeding, she probably shouldn&#8217;t do it. Once you (plural) have committed to breast, there&#8217;s a huge element of childcare which the father is never going to be part of, and there&#8217;s no real way of making it up. With our kids &#8211; especially the first &#8211; I was the resentful one, sitting downstairs wondering if this was it for the evening; my wife saw feeding as something she ought to do, was happy to do and enjoyed doing (mostly &#8211; early mornings were tough).</p>
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		<title>By: Ano</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269113</link>
		<dc:creator>Ano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269113</guid>
		<description>Harry b @74

Great point about the egalitarian-marriage-enhancing properties of bottle feeding. This brings up an interesting point about how many factors there are to consider in making this decision:

1) physical and emotional health of child
2) physical and emotional health of parents
3) cost in money
4) cost in time
5) social acceptance of our practices
6) distribution of above effects among mother and father

What&#039;s fascinating is that parents &lt;b&gt;have to weigh tradeoffs between all of these&lt;/b&gt;. I&#039;m sure no one could actually state their family social welfare function about all this. Luckily we come equipped with portable fuzzy logic matrix algebra machines (or however our brains work) for making these decisions using these factors!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Harry b @74</p>

	<p>Great point about the egalitarian-marriage-enhancing properties of bottle feeding. This brings up an interesting point about how many factors there are to consider in making this decision:</p>

	<p>1) physical and emotional health of child<br />
2) physical and emotional health of parents<br />
3) cost in money<br />
4) cost in time<br />
5) social acceptance of our practices<br />
6) distribution of above effects among mother and father</p>

	<p>What&#8217;s fascinating is that parents <b>have to weigh tradeoffs between all of these</b>. I&#8217;m sure no one could actually state their family social welfare function about all this. Luckily we come equipped with portable fuzzy logic matrix algebra machines (or however our brains work) for making these decisions using these factors!</p>
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		<title>By: Xanthippas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/03/12/how-much-better-is-breastfeeding/comment-page-2/#comment-269110</link>
		<dc:creator>Xanthippas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=9967#comment-269110</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t suppose I have much to offer on this subject that&#039;s useful, except some measure of personal experience. My wife has breastfed our two children while working, and while frequently taking care of first one, and then two, while I was in law school and then working out of town, while also working full-time herself. Often, this necessitated measures like strapping a breast pump to herself as she drove from one location to another for her job.  She did this because she considered it a labor of love, and not simply because a parenting book told her to. To each their own, but her experience has inclined to make me skeptical of those who find breastfeeding to be entirely too difficult or inconvenient to continue for any length of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t suppose I have much to offer on this subject that&#8217;s useful, except some measure of personal experience. My wife has breastfed our two children while working, and while frequently taking care of first one, and then two, while I was in law school and then working out of town, while also working full-time herself. Often, this necessitated measures like strapping a breast pump to herself as she drove from one location to another for her job.  She did this because she considered it a labor of love, and not simply because a parenting book told her to. To each their own, but her experience has inclined to make me skeptical of those who find breastfeeding to be entirely too difficult or inconvenient to continue for any length of time.</p>
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