<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Churchill verdict</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:40:31 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271721</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271721</guid>
		<description>And now, on to Norman Finkelstein!
Keep that distaste simmering boys, there&#039;s work to do!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And now, on to Norman Finkelstein!<br />
Keep that distaste simmering boys, there&#8217;s work to do!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nullifidian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271693</link>
		<dc:creator>Nullifidian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271693</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Free speech and tenure arguments aside, the fact that Churchill was a documented plagiarist and fraud who lied on his job application is reason enough for ANY employer
to terminate the man. &lt;/i&gt;

Except that Churchill was not a documented plagiarist and fraud, as that argument got shot down handily in the trial which has just concluded.

&lt;i&gt;He MUST therefore be directing his suspicions toward the very Indian tribe which publicly/formally revoked Churchill’s strictly HONORARY membership in their tribe for abusing it by claiming false blood ties as a way to finagle his was to his both his academic and administrative positions at CU.&lt;/i&gt;

You, on the other hand, are a demonstrable liar.

Ward Churchill&#039;s membership in the United Keetowah Band of Cherokee is an &lt;i&gt;associate&lt;/i&gt; membership, not an honorary membership. This means that Ward Churchill has demonstrated, to the satisfaction of the the Keetowah Band that he was less than of 1/4 “Cherokee” heritage (granting the racist assumption, promulgated by the Dawes Roll, that Cherokee identity is reducible to a strict blood quantum). 1/4 or above can be admitted as a full member.

His membership was &lt;a href=&quot;http://web.archive.org/web/20070813224436/tryworks.org/blog/the-churchill-smear/now-about-ward-churchill%E2%80%99s-cherokee-enrollment%E2%80%A6/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;confirmed&lt;/a&gt; by the very same Keetowah Band on June 4, 1994, after Churchill&#039;s initial enrollment and despite the alleged “formal” revocation (which was never formal, nor was his membership revoked).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Free speech and tenure arguments aside, the fact that Churchill was a documented plagiarist and fraud who lied on his job application is reason enough for <span class="caps">ANY</span> employer<br />
to terminate the man. </i></p>

	<p>Except that Churchill was not a documented plagiarist and fraud, as that argument got shot down handily in the trial which has just concluded.</p>

	<p><i>He <span class="caps">MUST</span> therefore be directing his suspicions toward the very Indian tribe which publicly/formally revoked Churchill&#8217;s strictly <span class="caps">HONORARY</span> membership in their tribe for abusing it by claiming false blood ties as a way to finagle his was to his both his academic and administrative positions at CU.</i></p>

	<p>You, on the other hand, are a demonstrable liar.</p>

	<p>Ward Churchill&#8217;s membership in the United Keetowah Band of Cherokee is an <i>associate</i> membership, not an honorary membership. This means that Ward Churchill has demonstrated, to the satisfaction of the the Keetowah Band that he was less than of 1/4 &#8220;Cherokee&#8221; heritage (granting the racist assumption, promulgated by the Dawes Roll, that Cherokee identity is reducible to a strict blood quantum). 1/4 or above can be admitted as a full member.</p>

	<p>His membership was <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070813224436/tryworks.org/blog/the-churchill-smear/now-about-ward-churchill%E2%80%99s-cherokee-enrollment%E2%80%A6/" rel="nofollow">confirmed</a> by the very same Keetowah Band on June 4, 1994, after Churchill&#8217;s initial enrollment and despite the alleged &#8220;formal&#8221; revocation (which was never formal, nor was his membership revoked).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: virgil xenophon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271620</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271620</guid>
		<description>Ahem/

Free speech and tenure arguments aside, the fact that Churchill was a documented plagiarist and fraud who lied on his job application is reason enough for ANY employer
to terminate the man. True enough, it was his publicized statements about 9/11 which inflamed public opinion, but that only exposed the sloppiness and idiocy of an administration too lazy and indifferent to properly vet a walking fraud. And I don&#039;t understand Colin Danby&#039;s &quot;suspicions&quot; either. He MUST therefore be directing his suspicions toward the very Indian tribe which publicly/formally revoked Churchill&#039;s strictly HONORARY membership in their tribe for abusing it by claiming false blood ties as a way to finagle his was to his both his academic and administrative positions at CU. The fact that CU hired this fraud in the first place reflects poorly on CU--and those here who come to the defense of this academic fraud also foolishly cover themselves in ignominy--both intellectual and ethical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ahem/</p>

	<p>Free speech and tenure arguments aside, the fact that Churchill was a documented plagiarist and fraud who lied on his job application is reason enough for <span class="caps">ANY</span> employer<br />
to terminate the man. True enough, it was his publicized statements about 9/11 which inflamed public opinion, but that only exposed the sloppiness and idiocy of an administration too lazy and indifferent to properly vet a walking fraud. And I don&#8217;t understand Colin Danby&#8217;s &#8220;suspicions&#8221; either. He <span class="caps">MUST</span> therefore be directing his suspicions toward the very Indian tribe which publicly/formally revoked Churchill&#8217;s strictly <span class="caps">HONORARY</span> membership in their tribe for abusing it by claiming false blood ties as a way to finagle his was to his both his academic and administrative positions at CU. The fact that CU hired this fraud in the first place reflects poorly on CU&#8212;and those here who come to the defense of this academic fraud also foolishly cover themselves in ignominy&#8212;both intellectual and ethical.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tangurena</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271588</link>
		<dc:creator>Tangurena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 14:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271588</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget that the regents of the colorado university system are elected officials. If they didn&#039;t fire the guy, then they wouldn&#039;t have been re-elected.
http://www.elections.colorado.gov/DDefault.aspx?tid=974</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t forget that the regents of the colorado university system are elected officials. If they didn&#8217;t fire the guy, then they wouldn&#8217;t have been re-elected.<br />
<a href="http://www.elections.colorado.gov/DDefault.aspx?tid=974" rel="nofollow">http://www.elections.colorado.gov/DDefault.aspx?tid=974</a></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271576</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 05:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271576</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how we got to interdisciplinarity, Chris, but if being Native Am were all it took to get hired at CU the place would be rather different, no?  What&#039;s your evidence?

I repeat, the guy has a serious publication record.  You want to read and critique it, please go ahead.  But I&#039;m suspicious when people instead go straight to the bloodline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not sure how we got to interdisciplinarity, Chris, but if being Native Am were all it took to get hired at CU the place would be rather different, no?  What&#8217;s your evidence?</p>

	<p>I repeat, the guy has a serious publication record.  You want to read and critique it, please go ahead.  But I&#8217;m suspicious when people instead go straight to the bloodline.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271574</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 03:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271574</guid>
		<description>Colin:

I think one reason that many of us regard Churchill as something of a charlatan is the disjunct between his academic preparation and his appointment. I&#039;m all for interdisciplinarity, but it does seem that it was his claim to being a Native American that got him hired. Which brings me to the second reason for holding him in disregard (and as a charlatan): there is no evidence that he is NA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Colin:</p>

	<p>I think one reason that many of us regard Churchill as something of a charlatan is the disjunct between his academic preparation and his appointment. I&#8217;m all for interdisciplinarity, but it does seem that it was his claim to being a Native American that got him hired. Which brings me to the second reason for holding him in disregard (and as a charlatan): there is no evidence that he is NA.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271570</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 00:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271570</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, Colin, I am willing to stand corrected. (Which of course makes the political witch-hunt that much worse.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Fair enough, Colin, I am willing to stand corrected. (Which of course makes the political witch-hunt that much worse.)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271565</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 21:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271565</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how serious your question is, Steve, and I don&#039;t see Churchill&#039;s CV online, but if page three of &lt;a href=&quot;http://wardchurchill.net/files/churchill_response_to_regents_071207.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this thing&lt;/a&gt; (http://wardchurchill.net/files/churchill_response_to_regents_071207.pdf) is right he has a serious record of publication, much of it refereed.  If you set that against the rather slender findings of the committee that was set up to find reasons to fire him, this is the profile of a busy activist-scholar whose wide range of publication includes several culpable misdeeds, not that of someone who avoided refereed venues (e.g. L. Jeffries, if memory serves) or someone who systematically cheated his way to academic advancement, like the feller in Henry&#039;s Chronicle link.  I&#039;m not offering a defense of the style or content of Churchill&#039;s work, but I&#039;m troubled by the easy slide to &quot;charlatan.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know how serious your question is, Steve, and I don&#8217;t see Churchill&#8217;s CV online, but if page three of <a href="http://wardchurchill.net/files/churchill_response_to_regents_071207.pdf" rel="nofollow">this thing</a> (<a href="http://wardchurchill.net/files/churchill_response_to_regents_071207.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://wardchurchill.net/files/churchill_response_to_regents_071207.pdf</a>) is right he has a serious record of publication, much of it refereed.  If you set that against the rather slender findings of the committee that was set up to find reasons to fire him, this is the profile of a busy activist-scholar whose wide range of publication includes several culpable misdeeds, not that of someone who avoided refereed venues (e.g. L. Jeffries, if memory serves) or someone who systematically cheated his way to academic advancement, like the feller in Henry&#8217;s Chronicle link.  I&#8217;m not offering a defense of the style or content of Churchill&#8217;s work, but I&#8217;m troubled by the easy slide to &#8220;charlatan.&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PabloK</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271552</link>
		<dc:creator>PabloK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271552</guid>
		<description>@novakant 

It&#039;s not actually terribly complicated. If an academic denies that the Holocaust happened, publishes those views in academic papers or presses, and &lt;i&gt;clearly violates academic standards in doing so&lt;/i&gt;, then they should lose their job. Not because of &lt;i&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; they said, but because of the &lt;i&gt;grounds&lt;/i&gt; on which they made their claims. Now, if a professor denies the Holocaust but somehow has good academic grounds for doing so, then they shouldn&#039;t lose their job. That would constitute a major &#039;advance&#039; in our knowledge, if it were true. Which it&#039;s not. Similarly, if an expert on epidemiology publishes ranting screeds in favour of Hitler in their own time, it is quite simply none of the University&#039;s business.

You will, of course, know that many people justify genocide. And some of them don&#039;t like Ward Churchill very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@novakant</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s not actually terribly complicated. If an academic denies that the Holocaust happened, publishes those views in academic papers or presses, and <i>clearly violates academic standards in doing so</i>, then they should lose their job. Not because of <i>what</i> they said, but because of the <i>grounds</i> on which they made their claims. Now, if a professor denies the Holocaust but somehow has good academic grounds for doing so, then they shouldn&#8217;t lose their job. That would constitute a major &#8216;advance&#8217; in our knowledge, if it were true. Which it&#8217;s not. Similarly, if an expert on epidemiology publishes ranting screeds in favour of Hitler in their own time, it is quite simply none of the University&#8217;s business.</p>

	<p>You will, of course, know that many people justify genocide. And some of them don&#8217;t like Ward Churchill very much.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271550</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271550</guid>
		<description>Jacob- isn&#039;t that concern best  handled by not hiring and tenuring charlatans in the first place? I mean, they may not have known about the plagiarism (not that they seem to have looked very hard), but how could this guy have been taken seriously as a scholar even so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jacob- isn&#8217;t that concern best  handled by not hiring and tenuring charlatans in the first place? I mean, they may not have known about the plagiarism (not that they seem to have looked very hard), but how could this guy have been taken seriously as a scholar even so?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271549</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271549</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I simply don’t think academic freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter) is an absolute value.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Few things in life are absolute, but unless the hedging of those freedoms is limited to the minimal amount that&#039;s truly necessary to deal with, say, direct incitement to violence, those freedoms effectively don&#039;t exist. The more you start carving out exceptions, the more the exceptions start becoming the rule. (Yes, that&#039;s a slippery slope argument, but its practical truth is borne out precisely by cases like this one.) So in my opinion you&#039;re either pretty much an &quot;absolutist&quot; or you don&#039;t really value freedom of speech all that much after all. The latter a is defensible position, to be sure, but one that I would vigorously oppose.

Thought is more important than order. No order lasts forever, and no decent replacement of an expiring order can be arrived at without free thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>I simply don&#8217;t think academic freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter) is an absolute value.</blockquote>Few things in life are absolute, but unless the hedging of those freedoms is limited to the minimal amount that&#8217;s truly necessary to deal with, say, direct incitement to violence, those freedoms effectively don&#8217;t exist. The more you start carving out exceptions, the more the exceptions start becoming the rule. (Yes, that&#8217;s a slippery slope argument, but its practical truth is borne out precisely by cases like this one.) So in my opinion you&#8217;re either pretty much an &#8220;absolutist&#8221; or you don&#8217;t really value freedom of speech all that much after all. The latter a is defensible position, to be sure, but one that I would vigorously oppose.</p>

	<p>Thought is more important than order. No order lasts forever, and no decent replacement of an expiring order can be arrived at without free thought.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271544</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271544</guid>
		<description>It is, hwoever, tough to be enthused about the incentives created by telling professors who have committed violations of academic integrity that, if they say something sufficiently inflammatory as well, they&#039;ll have a chance at the defense that they were fired for their political views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is, hwoever, tough to be enthused about the incentives created by telling professors who have committed violations of academic integrity that, if they say something sufficiently inflammatory as well, they&#8217;ll have a chance at the defense that they were fired for their political views.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Perezoso</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271542</link>
		<dc:creator>Perezoso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271542</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m perfectly comfortable having universities censure faculty who plagiarize or otherwise violate scholarly standards, so long as they make an honest effort to punish all guilty parties. But selective enforcement on the basis of a particular guilty party’s political views is appalling, whether the punishment is firing or merely censure and however serious the scholarly violation.&lt;/i&gt;

That about sums it up.   And let&#039;s not forget who runs the CU Board of Regents: good ol&#039; Colorady WASPs, cronies of CoorsCo, the USAF, the Boulder development-boomtown, IBM, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I&#8217;m perfectly comfortable having universities censure faculty who plagiarize or otherwise violate scholarly standards, so long as they make an honest effort to punish all guilty parties. But selective enforcement on the basis of a particular guilty party&#8217;s political views is appalling, whether the punishment is firing or merely censure and however serious the scholarly violation.</i></p>

	<p>That about sums it up.   And let&#8217;s not forget who runs the <span class="caps">CU </span>Board of Regents: good ol&#8217; Colorady <span class="caps">WAS</span>Ps, cronies of CoorsCo, the <span class="caps">USAF</span>, the Boulder development-boomtown, <span class="caps">IBM</span>, etc.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271540</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271540</guid>
		<description>I simply don&#039;t think academic freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter) is an absolute value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I simply don&#8217;t think academic freedom (or freedom of speech for that matter) is an absolute value.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/04/03/churchill-verdict/comment-page-1/#comment-271534</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10399#comment-271534</guid>
		<description>Louis - last I heard from you, you were getting hissier and hissier, and jumping up and down, and _swearing_ that you would never deign to grace my comments threads again. What a surprise to see you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Louis &#8211; last I heard from you, you were getting hissier and hissier, and jumping up and down, and <em>swearing</em> that you would never deign to grace my comments threads again. What a surprise to see you!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
