Comments on: Astroturf journals http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 08:41:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: byzantine http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274396 byzantine Mon, 04 May 2009 20:26:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274396 The symposia that Bill Gardner mentions were, I believe, usually if not always published as journal supplements. The ones I was familiar with always prominently disclosed drug company sponsorship, and physicians I think generally realized that for that reason the material in the supplements was not to be regarded as having the same validity as material in the regular issues of the journal. I worked for a time editing articles for journal supplements; I was paid by the publisher of the journal, and they backed me up when I insisted that the nominal authors of the articles (the drug company in fact paid their own employees or a PR firm to ghostwrite the articles) include additional information about adverse effects and additional references. I did get the impression that I was unusual in advocating such changes, though. The symposia that Bill Gardner mentions were, I believe, usually if not always published as journal supplements. The ones I was familiar with always prominently disclosed drug company sponsorship, and physicians I think generally realized that for that reason the material in the supplements was not to be regarded as having the same validity as material in the regular issues of the journal. I worked for a time editing articles for journal supplements; I was paid by the publisher of the journal, and they backed me up when I insisted that the nominal authors of the articles (the drug company in fact paid their own employees or a PR firm to ghostwrite the articles) include additional information about adverse effects and additional references. I did get the impression that I was unusual in advocating such changes, though.

]]> By: The Raven http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274391 The Raven Mon, 04 May 2009 17:45:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274391 Bill Gardner: you're right, I'm wrong. I suppose climate change deniers are focusing on persuading different groups, and fake scientific literature doesn't cut much with the general public or US legislators. Bill Gardner: you’re right, I’m wrong. I suppose climate change deniers are focusing on persuading different groups, and fake scientific literature doesn’t cut much with the general public or US legislators.

]]> By: Bill Gardner http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274386 Bill Gardner Mon, 04 May 2009 16:49:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274386 The Raven @ 18: <i>Climate-change deniers ... just don’t have Merck’s resources.</i> Are you sure? Value of Merck = $26/share * 2.1B shares = $54.6B. Value of Exxon Mobil = $68.5 *4.9B shares =$335.7B. The Raven @ 18:

Climate-change deniers … just don’t have Merck’s resources.

Are you sure? Value of Merck = $26/share * 2.1B shares = $54.6B.
Value of Exxon Mobil = $68.5 *4.9B shares =$335.7B.

]]> By: The Raven http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274385 The Raven Mon, 04 May 2009 16:38:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274385 "So always question what you're told/And ask, 'who does it serve?'/And if that someone isn't you/Give 'em what they deserve!"--Leslie Fish Anarchist Fish's idea of "what they deserve" involved rifles. Generally, the Raven prefers less pointed criticism of the living. Krawk! “So always question what you’re told/And ask, ‘who does it serve?’/And if that someone isn’t you/Give ‘em what they deserve!”—Leslie Fish

Anarchist Fish’s idea of “what they deserve” involved rifles. Generally, the Raven prefers less pointed criticism of the living.

Krawk!

]]> By: eudoxis http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274383 eudoxis Mon, 04 May 2009 16:24:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274383 First JAMA and now from the publishers of The Lancet. Can we trust anyone anymore? http://www.excerptamedica.com/ First JAMA and now from the publishers of The Lancet. Can we trust anyone anymore?

http://www.excerptamedica.com/

]]> By: The Raven http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274382 The Raven Mon, 04 May 2009 16:22:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274382 "Climate-change deniers will be kicking themselves for not having thought of this scam." They have. They try. They just don't have Merck's resources. Krawk! “Climate-change deniers will be kicking themselves for not having thought of this scam.”

They have. They try. They just don’t have Merck’s resources.

Krawk!

]]> By: fardels bear http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274378 fardels bear Mon, 04 May 2009 14:15:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274378 The scientific racists have been playing this game since 1960 with the MANKIND QUARTERLY. The scientific racists have been playing this game since 1960 with the MANKIND QUARTERLY.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274377 Barry Mon, 04 May 2009 14:14:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274377 “It is worth noting that project in question was produced 6 years ago and disclosure protocols have evolved since 2003. " Yeah, right, because in 2003 it was considered totally ethical to set up a fraudulent journal and then cherry pick papers. This, to me, is criminal fraud. “It is worth noting that project in question was produced 6 years ago and disclosure protocols have evolved since 2003. ”

Yeah, right, because in 2003 it was considered totally ethical to set up a fraudulent journal and then cherry pick papers.

This, to me, is criminal fraud.

]]> By: Ginger Yellow http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274370 Ginger Yellow Mon, 04 May 2009 12:58:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274370 I love the claim that this might have been considered ethical in 2003. Yes, it was a wild and dangerous world six years ago. I love the claim that this might have been considered ethical in 2003. Yes, it was a wild and dangerous world six years ago.

]]> By: John Protevi http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274367 John Protevi Mon, 04 May 2009 12:13:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274367 <i>disclosure protocols have evolved since 2003. Elsevier’s current disclosure policies meet the rigor and requirements of the current publishing environment.</i> Let's see: requirements for Darwinian evolution by natural selection: 1. blind variation; 2. heritability; 3. selection. We've got selection via detection, criticism and shaming. We've got heritability as the next generation of journals has lost the offending trait. The problem is that the variation was directed rather than blind. Conclusion: Elsevier are Lamarckians! Their next step then is to 1. hide their PR a little better or 2. swamp the field with so much crap that the critics are too busy with other outrages and don't see the next attempt. Looks like an evolutionary arms race to me! disclosure protocols have evolved since 2003. Elsevier’s current disclosure policies meet the rigor and requirements of the current publishing environment.

Let’s see: requirements for Darwinian evolution by natural selection: 1. blind variation; 2. heritability; 3. selection.

We’ve got selection via detection, criticism and shaming. We’ve got heritability as the next generation of journals has lost the offending trait. The problem is that the variation was directed rather than blind. Conclusion: Elsevier are Lamarckians! Their next step then is to 1. hide their PR a little better or 2. swamp the field with so much crap that the critics are too busy with other outrages and don’t see the next attempt. Looks like an evolutionary arms race to me!

]]> By: MattF http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274366 MattF Mon, 04 May 2009 11:51:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274366 Elsevier managed to combine the roles of pimp, whore, <i>and</i> piano player on the ground floor who doesn't know what's going on upstairs. I'm impressed. Elsevier managed to combine the roles of pimp, whore, and piano player on the ground floor who doesn’t know what’s going on upstairs. I’m impressed.

]]> By: Bill Gardner http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274362 Bill Gardner Mon, 04 May 2009 11:17:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274362 Sorry, I meant to say 'journal'. Sorry, I meant to say ‘journal’.

]]> By: Bill Gardner http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274361 Bill Gardner Mon, 04 May 2009 11:16:55 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274361 My impression is that these were not unique events, and that Elsevier has not been the only guilty party. Be aware that it was once a common practice for pharmaceutical companies to sponsor symposia on their drugs at meetings. For which their PR people would write text and prepare slides for the 'academic' speakers. The 'papers' from these events would later be published in a journal. My impression is that these were not unique events, and that Elsevier has not been the only guilty party. Be aware that it was once a common practice for pharmaceutical companies to sponsor symposia on their drugs at meetings. For which their PR people would write text and prepare slides for the ‘academic’ speakers. The ‘papers’ from these events would later be published in a journal.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274360 John Quiggin Mon, 04 May 2009 11:15:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274360 "Climate-change deniers will be kicking themselves for not having thought of this scam" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_and_environment “Climate-change deniers will be kicking themselves for not having thought of this scam”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_and_environment

]]> By: Maurice Meilleur http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/04/astroturf-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-274359 Maurice Meilleur Mon, 04 May 2009 11:05:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=10982#comment-274359 Huh. And given that Elsevier charges up to $22K/year for <em>annual</em> subscriptions to some of its journals, ARI might even get them on board. Huh. And given that Elsevier charges up to $22K/year for annual subscriptions to some of its journals, ARI might even get them on board.

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