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	<title>Comments on: Curious</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: max jacobowitz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275433</link>
		<dc:creator>max jacobowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 05:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275433</guid>
		<description>As an orthodox jew, I&#039;m definitely not a &quot;free thinker&quot; and not any of the other options, so I guess I&#039;m unhireable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As an orthodox jew, I&#8217;m definitely not a &#8220;free thinker&#8221; and not any of the other options, so I guess I&#8217;m unhireable.</p>
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		<title>By: belle waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275424</link>
		<dc:creator>belle waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 03:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275424</guid>
		<description>Yes, as John says, it seems that the ministry of manpower requires this. There are racial quotas of a sort in Singapore, with regard to public  housing; within a certain estate or group of estates the ratios of the varying races are supposed to mirror that of the country as a whole. This is religion rather than race, though. There are issues about food handling, I suppose, but all the big fast food places are halal--they just don&#039;t serve any pork at all. I agree with John that this is probably a holdover from an earlier time. The British had explicit policies along these lines (though, again, I tend to think of them as race rather than religion based).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, as John says, it seems that the ministry of manpower requires this. There are racial quotas of a sort in Singapore, with regard to public  housing; within a certain estate or group of estates the ratios of the varying races are supposed to mirror that of the country as a whole. This is religion rather than race, though. There are issues about food handling, I suppose, but all the big fast food places are halal&#8212;they just don&#8217;t serve any pork at all. I agree with John that this is probably a holdover from an earlier time. The British had explicit policies along these lines (though, again, I tend to think of them as race rather than religion based).</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275282</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275282</guid>
		<description>&quot;Common-sense definition of “back” is history.go(-1) in javascript&quot;

Heh. Clearly techie common sense is differenct from common common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Common-sense definition of &#8220;back&#8221; is history.go(-1) in javascript&#8221;</p>

	<p>Heh. Clearly techie common sense is differenct from common common sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Henri Vieuxtemps</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275257</link>
		<dc:creator>Henri Vieuxtemps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 09:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275257</guid>
		<description>No, they&#039;re just wrong to call their button &quot;back&quot;. Common-sense definition of &quot;back&quot; is history.go(-1) in javascript; and what they mean is something like navigating &quot;up&quot; in the website&#039;s structure. That&#039;s different from &quot;back&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No, they&#8217;re just wrong to call their button &#8220;back&#8221;. Common-sense definition of &#8220;back&#8221; is history.go(-1) in javascript; and what they mean is something like navigating &#8220;up&#8221; in the website&#8217;s structure. That&#8217;s different from &#8220;back&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275251</link>
		<dc:creator>Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 06:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275251</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s an interesting question to know how many people hit the Back button on a page rather than in their browsers. It’s not clear, however, how one might have gotten to the page originally. For example, this site is the third result if you do a search on Google (from the US) for the following:
mcdonalds online application&lt;/i&gt;

This seems compeltely unintended, the makers of the site just assumed everyone would enter through the main Macdonalds Singapore site, and then it accidentally turned up high in Google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It&#8217;s an interesting question to know how many people hit the Back button on a page rather than in their browsers. It&#8217;s not clear, however, how one might have gotten to the page originally. For example, this site is the third result if you do a search on Google (from the US) for the following:<br />
mcdonalds online application</i></p>

	<p>This seems compeltely unintended, the makers of the site just assumed everyone would enter through the main Macdonalds Singapore site, and then it accidentally turned up high in Google.</p>
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		<title>By: mollymooly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275225</link>
		<dc:creator>mollymooly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 20:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275225</guid>
		<description>It seems that other Singapore web forms give Other, Sikh, Taoist and/or Catholic as options</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It seems that other Singapore web forms give Other, Sikh, Taoist and/or Catholic as options</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275175</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 18:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275175</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why would they be interested in the Marital status?&lt;/i&gt;

Many employers in the United States probably &lt;i&gt;would&lt;/i&gt; ask marital status on applications, if they were allowed to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Why would they be interested in the Marital status?</i></p>

	<p>Many employers in the United States probably <i>would</i> ask marital status on applications, if they were allowed to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter Hargittai</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275154</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter Hargittai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 13:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275154</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the thoughts on what&#039;s going on here.

Re JL&#039;s note:
&lt;i&gt;If you hit the BACK button from the linked page, it’s clear that you navigate to this site from a Singapore McDonald’s page.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s an interesting question to know how many people hit the Back button on a page rather than in their browsers.  It&#039;s not clear, however, how one might have gotten to the page originally. For example, this site is the third result if you do a search on Google (from the US)  for the following:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonalds+online+application&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mcdonalds online application&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for all the thoughts on what&#8217;s going on here.</p>

	<p>Re JL&#8217;s note:<br />
<i>If you hit the <span class="caps">BACK</span> button from the linked page, it&#8217;s clear that you navigate to this site from a Singapore McDonald&#8217;s page.</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s an interesting question to know how many people hit the Back button on a page rather than in their browsers.  It&#8217;s not clear, however, how one might have gotten to the page originally. For example, this site is the third result if you do a search on Google (from the US)  for the following:<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonalds+online+application" rel="nofollow">mcdonalds online application</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anders Widebrant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275152</link>
		<dc:creator>Anders Widebrant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275152</guid>
		<description>By Occam the census idea seems better than a quota system at McDonalds, but it&#039;s odd that they&#039;d put it on an application form if it doesn&#039;t in some way affect how they filter potential employees. I don&#039;t see that they would want or need to report details about everyone they didn&#039;t hire as well as those who made the cut.

It could just be a boiler-plate personal details form, of course, with the recruiters only looking at some subset of the information collected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>By Occam the census idea seems better than a quota system at McDonalds, but it&#8217;s odd that they&#8217;d put it on an application form if it doesn&#8217;t in some way affect how they filter potential employees. I don&#8217;t see that they would want or need to report details about everyone they didn&#8217;t hire as well as those who made the cut.</p>

	<p>It could just be a boiler-plate personal details form, of course, with the recruiters only looking at some subset of the information collected.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275149</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 08:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275149</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;3. Job postings that may be unreal—e.g., openings that are eternally posted on the company’s website with no “freshness date,” making it difficult for the applicant to determine whether the job truly exists.&lt;/i&gt;

To follow on from Witt&#039;s point in comment 8, I have got the distinct impression from my partner, an IT professional, using online job search websites that most, if not all, of the jobs advertised are just fishing exercises to get people to post their CV, and a way to match people to the kind of jobs in which they are interested.  

I have no hard evidence for this, but anecdotally, the posting of the CV is really a way of attracting the interest of the appropriate agent/headhunter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>3. Job postings that may be unreal&#8212;e.g., openings that are eternally posted on the company&#8217;s website with no &#8220;freshness date,&#8221; making it difficult for the applicant to determine whether the job truly exists.</i></p>

	<p>To follow on from Witt&#8217;s point in comment 8, I have got the distinct impression from my partner, an IT professional, using online job search websites that most, if not all, of the jobs advertised are just fishing exercises to get people to post their CV, and a way to match people to the kind of jobs in which they are interested.</p>

	<p>I have no hard evidence for this, but anecdotally, the posting of the CV is really a way of attracting the interest of the appropriate agent/headhunter.</p>
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		<title>By: PeWi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275148</link>
		<dc:creator>PeWi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 08:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275148</guid>
		<description>Why would they be interested in the Marital status?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why would they be interested in the Marital status?</p>
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		<title>By: Wilson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275147</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 03:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275147</guid>
		<description>Hi! I was linked to this entry by a friend. I second jholbo&#039;s idea that it&#039;s part of a census deal.

I can&#039;t say that they&#039;re necessarily adhering to a racial quota though. &#039;S true for allocating Housing Board flats, but the serving staff in most fast food centres are predominantly Malay. Which is interesting, considering that Malays are an ethnic minority over here. 

Macca&#039;s also doesn&#039;t serve pork products here, period (I have never tasted the fabled McRib),  so it&#039;s not a question of food handling in their case at least .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hi! I was linked to this entry by a friend. I second jholbo&#8217;s idea that it&#8217;s part of a census deal.</p>

	<p>I can&#8217;t say that they&#8217;re necessarily adhering to a racial quota though. &#8216;S true for allocating Housing Board flats, but the serving staff in most fast food centres are predominantly Malay. Which is interesting, considering that Malays are an ethnic minority over here.</p>

	<p>Macca&#8217;s also doesn&#8217;t serve pork products here, period (I have never tasted the fabled McRib),  so it&#8217;s not a question of food handling in their case at least .</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275146</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 02:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275146</guid>
		<description>Also from Singapore.

In my experience government forms like to ask for race and religion (I&#039;ve got a form sitting right next to my laptop here that does so): typically in the CMIO structure sarah1rene mentions. Religion is also treated the same way; it&#039;s just that McDonald&#039;s web designer forgot to include the Other box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also from Singapore.</p>

	<p>In my experience government forms like to ask for race and religion (I&#8217;ve got a form sitting right next to my laptop here that does so): typically in the <span class="caps">CMIO</span> structure sarah1rene mentions. Religion is also treated the same way; it&#8217;s just that McDonald&#8217;s web designer forgot to include the Other box.</p>
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		<title>By: jholbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275143</link>
		<dc:creator>jholbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 02:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275143</guid>
		<description>The options are standard for the MoM (Ministry of Manpower). I have to pick one from that menu every time I fill in my work pass papers. I don&#039;t know exactly what it means, but I&#039;m guessing McDonalds has to give this info to the Ministry. The oddly old-fashioned language (freethinker) probably reflects the fact that, somehow, this all dates back a long time. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised (though I have no special information about it) if it turned out the language is pre-independence (1965). It would probably be considered a moderately big deal to officially change the relationship between work and religion, by law. So it probably just sits there. But I suspect there wouldn&#039;t be any practical consequences to leaving it blank if you were, say, Jewish. I&#039;m really not sure. (Do not take me as an authority on Singaporean employment law.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The options are standard for the MoM (Ministry of Manpower). I have to pick one from that menu every time I fill in my work pass papers. I don&#8217;t know exactly what it means, but I&#8217;m guessing McDonalds has to give this info to the Ministry. The oddly old-fashioned language (freethinker) probably reflects the fact that, somehow, this all dates back a long time. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised (though I have no special information about it) if it turned out the language is pre-independence (1965). It would probably be considered a moderately big deal to officially change the relationship between work and religion, by law. So it probably just sits there. But I suspect there wouldn&#8217;t be any practical consequences to leaving it blank if you were, say, Jewish. I&#8217;m really not sure. (Do not take me as an authority on Singaporean employment law.)</p>
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		<title>By: ringisei</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/08/curious/comment-page-1/#comment-275142</link>
		<dc:creator>ringisei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 02:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11057#comment-275142</guid>
		<description>@ David Weman

The form does directly ask about ethnicity under the &#039;Race&#039; pulldown menu.

@sarah1rene

I agree with you that it&#039;s likely to be a &#039;lumping together&#039; issue. There&#039;s some good scholarship on the CMIO issue by Dr A.E. Lai (http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/people_details.asp?peopleid=372)

If you look at the 2000 Census figures (via singstat.gov.sg), the largest religious categories in descending order are Buddhism accounted for 42.5% of the population, followed by Islam (14.9%), No Religion (14.8%), Christianity (14.6%), Taoism (8.5%) and Hinduism (4%). It&#039;s probable that Taoists were lumped together with Buddhists (both groups being largely ethnic Chinese) but a sizeable number of Singaporean Buddhists, like Hindus, do not eat or (lesser) handle beef. MacDonald&#039;s had a PR issue a few years ago when it was reported that its french fries were fried in oil containing a beef additive.

@ Peter

Religion is also a compliance issue as MacDonald&#039;s is certified Halal by the Maljis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS) and a certain number of Muslim food handlers per outlet may be a requirement.

I agree it makes a lot more sense to just ask the question. But I suppose there are limits to the customization of the form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@ David Weman</p>

	<p>The form does directly ask about ethnicity under the &#8216;Race&#8217; pulldown menu.</p>

	<p>@sarah1rene</p>

	<p>I agree with you that it&#8217;s likely to be a &#8216;lumping together&#8217; issue. There&#8217;s some good scholarship on the <span class="caps">CMIO</span> issue by Dr A.E. Lai (<a href="http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/people_details.asp?peopleid=372" rel="nofollow">http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/people_details.asp?peopleid=372</a>)</p>

	<p>If you look at the 2000 Census figures (via singstat.gov.sg), the largest religious categories in descending order are Buddhism accounted for 42.5% of the population, followed by Islam (14.9%), No Religion (14.8%), Christianity (14.6%), Taoism (8.5%) and Hinduism (4%). It&#8217;s probable that Taoists were lumped together with Buddhists (both groups being largely ethnic Chinese) but a sizeable number of Singaporean Buddhists, like Hindus, do not eat or (lesser) handle beef. MacDonald&#8217;s had a PR issue a few years ago when it was reported that its french fries were fried in oil containing a beef additive.</p>

	<p>@ Peter</p>

	<p>Religion is also a compliance issue as MacDonald&#8217;s is certified Halal by the Maljis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS) and a certain number of Muslim food handlers per outlet may be a requirement.</p>

	<p>I agree it makes a lot more sense to just ask the question. But I suppose there are limits to the customization of the form.</p>
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