Comments on: Yuck! http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:51:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Matt Heath http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275908 Matt Heath Wed, 20 May 2009 11:04:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275908 Keith M Ellis @16: I'm not biologist so I'm prepared to be put right but as I understand it (from the discussion at P.Z. place) other parasites alter behaviour with chemicals they release themselves. Outsourcing it to a symbiotic virus is apparently something quite special done by a few types of wasps. Keith M Ellis @16: I’m not biologist so I’m prepared to be put right but as I understand it (from the discussion at P.Z. place) other parasites alter behaviour with chemicals they release themselves. Outsourcing it to a symbiotic virus is apparently something quite special done by a few types of wasps.

]]> By: Shawn Crowley http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275880 Shawn Crowley Wed, 20 May 2009 03:37:55 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275880 Anyone interested in parasite modification of host behavior should take a look at Janice Moore's 2002 book on the topic. Janice is at Colorado State University and has been working on host-parasite relations for the past 30 years. She's also a very nice person. Buy her book. http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/LifeSciences/Ecology/AnimalBehavior/?view=usa&ci=9780195146530 Anyone interested in parasite modification of host behavior should take a look at Janice Moore’s 2002 book on the topic. Janice is at Colorado State University and has been working on host-parasite relations for the past 30 years. She’s also a very nice person. Buy her book.

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/LifeSciences/Ecology/AnimalBehavior/?view=usa&ci=9780195146530

]]> By: Keith M Ellis http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275870 Keith M Ellis Wed, 20 May 2009 02:25:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275870 "The best thing about this is that the wasps/larvae have a co-evolved mind-control virus." That's pretty common in parasitology, I understand. There are, in fact, numerous examples with humans as hosts. I quite clearly recall my profound astonishment when a friend, a biology major, described to me his studies in parasitology with regard to parasites' abilities to affect the behavior of mammals, including humans. “The best thing about this is that the wasps/larvae have a co-evolved mind-control virus.”

That’s pretty common in parasitology, I understand. There are, in fact, numerous examples with humans as hosts. I quite clearly recall my profound astonishment when a friend, a biology major, described to me his studies in parasitology with regard to parasites’ abilities to affect the behavior of mammals, including humans.

]]> By: Keith M Ellis http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275869 Keith M Ellis Wed, 20 May 2009 02:20:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275869 Quite reminiscent of the relationship between white middle-class voters and the GOP. Quite reminiscent of the relationship between white middle-class voters and the GOP.

]]> By: Cannoneo http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275855 Cannoneo Wed, 20 May 2009 00:01:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275855 Stephen Jay Gould wrote about the role of the parasitic wasp as a test case in science writing for two centuries, first for the theological problem of cruelty in nature, and then for the linguistic problem of writing about nature with a language that has moral drama built into it. http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_nonmoral.html "As I read through the nineteenth- and twentieth-century literature on ichneumons, nothing amused me more than the tension between an intellectual knowledge that wasps should not be described in human terms and a literary or emotional inability to avoid the familiar categories of epic and narrative, pain and destruction, victim and vanquisher." Stephen Jay Gould wrote about the role of the parasitic wasp as a test case in science writing for two centuries, first for the theological problem of cruelty in nature, and then for the linguistic problem of writing about nature with a language that has moral drama built into it.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_nonmoral.html

“As I read through the nineteenth- and twentieth-century literature on ichneumons, nothing amused me more than the tension between an intellectual knowledge that wasps should not be described in human terms and a literary or emotional inability to avoid the familiar categories of epic and narrative, pain and destruction, victim and vanquisher.”

]]> By: Evil Bender http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275848 Evil Bender Tue, 19 May 2009 22:37:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275848 At the risk of being trite, I must say the personal aspect of the story in the post resonated with the English major in me, perhaps because it reminded me a bit of <a href="http://www.diacenter.org/prg/poetry/87_88/heaney1.html" rel="nofollow">Seamus Heaney's poem "Death of a Naturalist."</a> At the risk of being trite, I must say the personal aspect of the story in the post resonated with the English major in me, perhaps because it reminded me a bit of Seamus Heaney’s poem “Death of a Naturalist.”

]]> By: bert http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275847 bert Tue, 19 May 2009 22:13:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275847 Actually the thought strikes me - the audio they've gone for is "scuba equipment". If that's a conscious decision, it's contemptuous of the audience. If it's not, its amusingly witless. Similar points are being made on PZ's thread, I notice. I don't mean to be lemon-sucking. The underlying science is fascinating, after all. But this approach to film-making isn't so far away from that famous <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZlr5Gf9yY" rel="nofollow">Disney film with the lemmings</a>. Actually the thought strikes me – the audio they’ve gone for is “scuba equipment”.
If that’s a conscious decision, it’s contemptuous of the audience.
If it’s not, its amusingly witless.

Similar points are being made on PZ’s thread, I notice.
I don’t mean to be lemon-sucking. The underlying science is fascinating, after all.
But this approach to film-making isn’t so far away from that famous Disney film with the lemmings.

]]> By: bert http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275840 bert Tue, 19 May 2009 20:41:55 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275840 No favourite, Colin. It's a very niche field. You get your caterpillar gut audio by digging around in the long tail, I think. Whatever you can get, you're thankful for. No favourite, Colin. It’s a very niche field.
You get your caterpillar gut audio by digging around in the long tail, I think.
Whatever you can get, you’re thankful for.

]]> By: Ben Alpers http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275837 Ben Alpers Tue, 19 May 2009 19:26:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275837 <i>So nat'ralists observe, a flea Hath smaller fleas that on him prey, And these have smaller fleas that bite 'em, And so proceed</i> ad infinitum. --Jonathan Swift So nat’ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey,
And these have smaller fleas that bite ‘em,
And so proceed ad infinitum.
—Jonathan Swift

]]> By: Colin Danby http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275836 Colin Danby Tue, 19 May 2009 19:11:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275836 Thanks for the clip Bert! Got any favorite caterpillar gut audio? Thanks for the clip Bert! Got any favorite caterpillar gut audio?

]]> By: arthur http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275832 arthur Tue, 19 May 2009 17:23:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275832 Pixar is going to option this any minute now... Pixar is going to option this any minute now…

]]> By: mds http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275827 mds Tue, 19 May 2009 16:41:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275827 <blockquote>So why do Christians want to believe in intelligent design? Close observation of nature suggests that if there is a mind at work, it has a diabolical side.</blockquote> Have you scrutinized the rest of the theology embraced by the noisiest creationists? You answered your own question above.
So why do Christians want to believe in intelligent design? Close observation of nature suggests that if there is a mind at work, it has a diabolical side.

Have you scrutinized the rest of the theology embraced by the noisiest creationists? You answered your own question above.

]]> By: bert http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275824 bert Tue, 19 May 2009 16:02:08 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275824 Who made this? I remember when the BBC in Bristol produced this sort of stuff, or outsourced it from outfits like Oxford Scientific Films, they placed great emphasis on getting it for real. But the footage from inside the caterpillar looks phoney as hell. It's not helped by the decision to run generic audio over the top. (In the absence of "caterpillar gut" they chose "boiling saucepan" from the catalogue.) Apologies for the cynicism. Can I make up for it by pointing you <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fse9fvOCcpA" rel="nofollow">here</a>? All the creepy pleasures of body invasion and mind control - without the uncomfortable suspicion that it's been intercut with handpuppets. Who made this?
I remember when the BBC in Bristol produced this sort of stuff, or outsourced it from outfits like Oxford Scientific Films, they placed great emphasis on getting it for real. But the footage from inside the caterpillar looks phoney as hell. It’s not helped by the decision to run generic audio over the top. (In the absence of “caterpillar gut” they chose “boiling saucepan” from the catalogue.)
Apologies for the cynicism. Can I make up for it by pointing you here? All the creepy pleasures of body invasion and mind control – without the uncomfortable suspicion that it’s been intercut with handpuppets.

]]> By: om http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275823 om Tue, 19 May 2009 15:53:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275823 "is there an idea about the integrity of the body that’s disturbed by things living in things?" um... yes. “is there an idea about the integrity of the body that’s disturbed by things living in things?”

um… yes.

]]> By: Colin Danby http://crookedtimber.org/2009/05/19/yuck/comment-page-1/#comment-275822 Colin Danby Tue, 19 May 2009 14:50:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11181#comment-275822 Carl Zimmer's _Parasite Rex_ (Free Press, 2001) is highly recommended along these lines. We might also ask why the yuck -- is there an idea about the integrity of the body that's disturbed by things living in things? Carl Zimmer’s Parasite Rex (Free Press, 2001) is highly recommended along these lines. We might also ask why the yuck—is there an idea about the integrity of the body that’s disturbed by things living in things?

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