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	<title>Comments on: Hey kids! Free Plato Book! And you can help me make it better!</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-278208</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-278208</guid>
		<description>On pg. 217, in 71A, there is a quote that is unterminated (should be terminated on pg. 218.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On pg. 217, in 71A, there is a quote that is unterminated (should be terminated on pg. 218.)</p>
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		<title>By: brandon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-278171</link>
		<dc:creator>brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-278171</guid>
		<description>On pg. 12, under section 4, there should be a period after the parentheses, even though there is also a question mark inside the parentheses. The question mark would be sufficient punctuation only if the parenthetic sentence was stand-alone, not inside a non-parenthetic sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On pg. 12, under section 4, there should be a period after the parentheses, even though there is also a question mark inside the parentheses. The question mark would be sufficient punctuation only if the parenthetic sentence was stand-alone, not inside a non-parenthetic sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: jholbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-277864</link>
		<dc:creator>jholbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 05:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277864</guid>
		<description>Yeah, andthenyoufall. Funny fact. I way over-use italics in my own writings. I have to cut back. I thought that by using bold instead I could somewhat cut down, because it would be more obvious to me that it looks weird, as I was writing it. I&#039;m not sure whether that plan worked.

As to italics in the dialogue. Hell, the man knew not a thing about typography. They didn&#039;t even know about proper spacing between words, the ancient fools. I am doing Plato the favor of adding italics/bold face for proper dramatic emphasis. When I die and meet him in limbo, with the other noble pagans, I expect to be properly thanked for this.

http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000860.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, andthenyoufall. Funny fact. I way over-use italics in my own writings. I have to cut back. I thought that by using bold instead I could somewhat cut down, because it would be more obvious to me that it looks weird, as I was writing it. I&#8217;m not sure whether that plan worked.</p>

	<p>As to italics in the dialogue. Hell, the man knew not a thing about typography. They didn&#8217;t even know about proper spacing between words, the ancient fools. I am doing Plato the favor of adding italics/bold face for proper dramatic emphasis. When I die and meet him in limbo, with the other noble pagans, I expect to be properly thanked for this.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000860.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000860.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: andthenyoufall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-277620</link>
		<dc:creator>andthenyoufall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277620</guid>
		<description>John - I wasn&#039;t actually rooting for italics but more wondering whether you and Belle take the bold to reflect something in the Greek. (Maybe I&#039;m reading the wrong editions, but I&#039;ve never seen bold &lt;i&gt;or&lt;/i&gt; italics in a Platonic dialogue before!)

So for example, I could see translating &quot;je m&#039;en fous, moi&quot; as &quot;&lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt; don&#039;t give a damn&quot; in certain contexts, rather than as &quot;me, I don&#039;t give a damn&quot;. That sort of thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t actually rooting for italics but more wondering whether you and Belle take the bold to reflect something in the Greek. (Maybe I&#8217;m reading the wrong editions, but I&#8217;ve never seen bold <i>or</i> italics in a Platonic dialogue before!)</p>

	<p>So for example, I could see translating &#8220;je m&#8217;en fous, moi&#8221; as &#8220;<b>I</b> don&#8217;t give a damn&#8221; in certain contexts, rather than as &#8220;me, I don&#8217;t give a damn&#8221;. That sort of thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kragen Javier Sitaker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-277590</link>
		<dc:creator>Kragen Javier Sitaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277590</guid>
		<description>The Flash doesn&#039;t work properly in the version of Gnash I&#039;m using.  You might want to fix that (if it hasn&#039;t been fixed in Gnash.)  I&#039;m running Gnash 0.8.4-0ubuntu1 on Firefox 3.0.10+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1, obviously on Ubuntu Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Flash doesn&#8217;t work properly in the version of Gnash I&#8217;m using.  You might want to fix that (if it hasn&#8217;t been fixed in Gnash.)  I&#8217;m running Gnash 0.8.4-0ubuntu1 on Firefox 3.0.10+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.10.1, obviously on Ubuntu Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-277584</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277584</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Since this work was supposed to have a major e-book life, I just stuck with the bold face option. It’s kinda grown on me.&lt;/i&gt;

I like this. Italics look pretentious: I can cause you to &lt;i&gt;attenuate&lt;/i&gt; your vowel sounds, dear reader, right here from the page! And, with but a roll of my wrist from the Ctrl to the I, I can ensure you will &lt;i&gt;envision me solemnly intoning the middle third of this sentence in a declarative voice,&lt;/i&gt; because it&#039;s the part I thought was the most thoughtful; the rest is just &lt;i&gt;embellishment&lt;/i&gt;. (Here, the italics convey my mock horror!)

Bold words, on the other hand, do not give me this impression (though I suppose Glenn Greenwald is trying his hardest to disabuse me of this naivete).

Please do let this format continue to grow on you. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Since this work was supposed to have a major e-book life, I just stuck with the bold face option. It&#8217;s kinda grown on me.</i></p>

	<p>I like this. Italics look pretentious: I can cause you to <i>attenuate</i> your vowel sounds, dear reader, right here from the page! And, with but a roll of my wrist from the Ctrl to the I, I can ensure you will <i>envision me solemnly intoning the middle third of this sentence in a declarative voice,</i> because it&#8217;s the part I thought was the most thoughtful; the rest is just <i>embellishment</i>. (Here, the italics convey my mock horror!)</p>

	<p>Bold words, on the other hand, do not give me this impression (though I suppose Glenn Greenwald is trying his hardest to disabuse me of this naivete).</p>

	<p>Please do let this format continue to grow on you. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Tim O'Keefe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-2/#comment-277583</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim O'Keefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277583</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I can see your reasons not to change the title. You&#039;re right that Republic I stands apart (as does Republic X, in a different way). I vaguely remember reading about speculation that Republic book I was originally composed as a stand-alone dialogue (the &lt;i&gt;Thrasymachus&lt;/i&gt;?) and then pressed into service as the introduction to the &lt;i&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. But as far as I know, there is absolutely no evidence for this (apart from the obvious ways in which Book I is far different from the rest of the &lt;i&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, I can see your reasons not to change the title. You&#8217;re right that Republic I stands apart (as does Republic X, in a different way). I vaguely remember reading about speculation that Republic book I was originally composed as a stand-alone dialogue (the <i>Thrasymachus</i>?) and then pressed into service as the introduction to the <i>Republic</i>. But as far as I know, there is absolutely no evidence for this (apart from the obvious ways in which Book I is far different from the rest of the <i>Republic</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277577</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 00:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277577</guid>
		<description>&quot;Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it’s one book within the dialogue Republic. So I find Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I a little jarring ... but then why not something like “Three philosophical conversations by Plato”?&quot;

Yeah, but I think &#039;conversations&#039; would be a bit coy-sounding (why bother to relabel Euthyphro and Meno as conversations, since &#039;dialogue&#039; is obviously a perfectly good translation of &#039;dialogoi&#039;, although &#039;conversations&#039; would be as good, linguistically.) And there is a solid sense in which Republic book I is a stand-alone work, although also book 1 of 10. I think I&#039;ll stick with what I&#039;ve got, for lack of a better idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it&#8217;s one book within the dialogue Republic. So I find Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I a little jarring &#8230; but then why not something like &#8220;Three philosophical conversations by Plato&#8221;?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Yeah, but I think &#8216;conversations&#8217; would be a bit coy-sounding (why bother to relabel Euthyphro and Meno as conversations, since &#8216;dialogue&#8217; is obviously a perfectly good translation of &#8216;dialogoi&#8217;, although &#8216;conversations&#8217; would be as good, linguistically.) And there is a solid sense in which Republic book I is a stand-alone work, although also book 1 of 10. I think I&#8217;ll stick with what I&#8217;ve got, for lack of a better idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim O'Keefe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277566</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim O'Keefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277566</guid>
		<description>Sorry about the double post--I thought I hit submit just once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry about the double post&#8212;I thought I hit submit just once.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim O'Keefe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277565</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim O'Keefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277565</guid>
		<description>A title nit-pick:

Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it&#039;s one book within the dialogue &lt;i&gt;Republic.&lt;/i&gt; So I find &lt;i&gt;Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I&lt;/i&gt; a little jarring. I guess they&#039;re all dialogues in the sense of all being (depictions of) situations in which folks are talking to one another, but then why not something like &quot;Three philosophical conversations by Plato&quot;?

P.S.: Why no comment preview? I like to make sure I haven&#039;t screwed up my HTML tags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A title nit-pick:</p>

	<p>Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it&#8217;s one book within the dialogue <i>Republic.</i> So I find <i>Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I</i> a little jarring. I guess they&#8217;re all dialogues in the sense of all being (depictions of) situations in which folks are talking to one another, but then why not something like &#8220;Three philosophical conversations by Plato&#8221;?</p>

	<p>P.S.: Why no comment preview? I like to make sure I haven&#8217;t screwed up my <span class="caps">HTML</span> tags.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim O'Keefe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277564</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim O'Keefe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277564</guid>
		<description>A title nit-pick:

Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it&#039;s one book within the dialogue &lt;i&gt;Republic.&lt;/i&gt; So I find &lt;i&gt;Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I&lt;/i&gt; a little jarring. I guess they&#039;re all dialogues in the sense of all being (depictions of) situations in which folks are talking to one another, but then why not something like &quot;Three philosophical conversations by Plato&quot;?

P.S.: Why no comment preview? I like to make sure I haven&#039;t screwed up my HTML tags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A title nit-pick:</p>

	<p>Republic Book I is not a dialogue by Plato, it&#8217;s one book within the dialogue <i>Republic.</i> So I find <i>Three dialogues by Plato: Euthyphro, Meno, and Republic book I</i> a little jarring. I guess they&#8217;re all dialogues in the sense of all being (depictions of) situations in which folks are talking to one another, but then why not something like &#8220;Three philosophical conversations by Plato&#8221;?</p>

	<p>P.S.: Why no comment preview? I like to make sure I haven&#8217;t screwed up my <span class="caps">HTML</span> tags.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277554</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277554</guid>
		<description>However, I take it your point is that the real Socrates never said it at all, in which case it is well taken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>However, I take it your point is that the real Socrates never said it at all, in which case it is well taken.</p>
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		<title>By: Hortense</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277545</link>
		<dc:creator>Hortense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277545</guid>
		<description>the Meno section was interesting in light of the whole Malhotra thread. 

page 187, 2nd line, &quot;basic arithmeti&quot; sb basic arithmetic
page 190, 2nd line, &quot;these ar&quot; sb these are
page 197, 1st para, &quot;six virtues families&quot; sb six virtue families [? I think]
page 202, there&#039;s an unclosed or unopened quote ( people&#039; )
page 206, &quot;Galileo, very platonic thinker&quot; sb a very platonic thinker [?]
page 207, there&#039;s an incomplete thought in the last para; &quot;writes disapprovingly of how&quot; etc. is unfinished - can be fixed by changing &quot;of how&quot; to &quot;about&quot;
page 209 - inconsistent use of footnote methodology - I much prefer what you have here for footnote 9, rather than what is sprinkled throughout the rest of the text, which is in parens like (4); I assume this is one of the formatting glitches that your copyeditor will fix. 
page 210, several instances (and elsewhere in the text) of quotes placed &quot;thus&quot;.  instead of the more conventional &quot;thus.&quot; 

If I find any more nits in the next section I will just email you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>the Meno section was interesting in light of the whole Malhotra thread.</p>

	<p>page 187, 2nd line, &#8220;basic arithmeti&#8221; sb basic arithmetic<br />
page 190, 2nd line, &#8220;these ar&#8221; sb these are<br />
page 197, 1st para, &#8220;six virtues families&#8221; sb six virtue families [? I think]<br />
page 202, there&#8217;s an unclosed or unopened quote ( people&#8217; )<br />
page 206, &#8220;Galileo, very platonic thinker&#8221; sb a very platonic thinker [?]<br />
page 207, there&#8217;s an incomplete thought in the last para; &#8220;writes disapprovingly of how&#8221; etc. is unfinished &#8211; can be fixed by changing &#8220;of how&#8221; to &#8220;about&#8221;<br />
page 209 &#8211; inconsistent use of footnote methodology &#8211; I much prefer what you have here for footnote 9, rather than what is sprinkled throughout the rest of the text, which is in parens like (4); I assume this is one of the formatting glitches that your copyeditor will fix.<br />
page 210, several instances (and elsewhere in the text) of quotes placed &#8220;thus&#8221;.  instead of the more conventional &#8220;thus.&#8221;</p>

	<p>If I find any more nits in the next section I will just email you.</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277518</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277518</guid>
		<description>If someone is really so cash-strapped that they are willing to work for several hours to print the thing out laboriously, I doubt whether I could get them to pay in any case. But point taken. 

As to the bold use of bold. Here&#039;s the explanation of that I gave over at the book site itself (in response to a similar inquiry.)

&quot;There&#039;s a funny story about the font. It&#039;s Hypatia Sans Pro and it doesn&#039;t have an italic version for the odd but sufficient reason that the project just never got done, apparently. The guy who was working on it went on to something else, and whoever is picking up the pieces isn&#039;t done picking. We&#039;ve been waiting a year and a half.

You can read about it here.

http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2007/04/hypatia_sans.html

In comments, folks are banging on their keyboards for italics. You see me in there, way back in July of last year, inquiring when it will be available. I figured for sure it would exist by the time my book came out but we&#039;re still waiting. When the time came I thought about switching to another font but I really like Hypatia Sans and I was worried that italics often don&#039;t look good in screen displays, particularly at small sizes. They can really blind you. Since this work was supposed to have a major e-book life, I just stuck with the bold face option. It&#039;s kinda grown on me.

In a weird way, the fact that pros aren&#039;t using Hypatia Sans yet, because it&#039;s got no italics yet, means that my book has a distictive typographic look. (To reach for the silver lining that way.)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If someone is really so cash-strapped that they are willing to work for several hours to print the thing out laboriously, I doubt whether I could get them to pay in any case. But point taken.</p>

	<p>As to the bold use of bold. Here&#8217;s the explanation of that I gave over at the book site itself (in response to a similar inquiry.)</p>

	<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s a funny story about the font. It&#8217;s Hypatia Sans Pro and it doesn&#8217;t have an italic version for the odd but sufficient reason that the project just never got done, apparently. The guy who was working on it went on to something else, and whoever is picking up the pieces isn&#8217;t done picking. We&#8217;ve been waiting a year and a half.</p>

	<p>You can read about it here.</p>

	<p><a href="http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2007/04/hypatia_sans.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2007/04/hypatia_sans.html</a></p>

	<p>In comments, folks are banging on their keyboards for italics. You see me in there, way back in July of last year, inquiring when it will be available. I figured for sure it would exist by the time my book came out but we&#8217;re still waiting. When the time came I thought about switching to another font but I really like Hypatia Sans and I was worried that italics often don&#8217;t look good in screen displays, particularly at small sizes. They can really blind you. Since this work was supposed to have a major e-book life, I just stuck with the bold face option. It&#8217;s kinda grown on me.</p>

	<p>In a weird way, the fact that pros aren&#8217;t using Hypatia Sans yet, because it&#8217;s got no italics yet, means that my book has a distictive typographic look. (To reach for the silver lining that way.)&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/06/01/hey-kids-free-plato-book-and-you-can-help-me-make-it-better/comment-page-1/#comment-277511</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11355#comment-277511</guid>
		<description>Fair point all John.  I think you might be underestimating the determination of the cash-strapped student though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Fair point all John.  I think you might be underestimating the determination of the cash-strapped student though!</p>
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