<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Dispatch from Venice – Serenissima no more</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:35:30 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: maitresse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281341</link>
		<dc:creator>maitresse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281341</guid>
		<description>It is not actually that difficult to escape the tourist hordes, particularly in san polo, santa croce, cannareggio, and dorsoduro. ok, anywhere that isn&#039;t san marco or the immediate vicinity of the biennale. The place you mention as thronged with youngsters behind the fish market is a wonderful place for an apéro no matter what your age, and the restaurant (Bancogiro) is really great too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is not actually that difficult to escape the tourist hordes, particularly in san polo, santa croce, cannareggio, and dorsoduro. ok, anywhere that isn&#8217;t san marco or the immediate vicinity of the biennale. The place you mention as thronged with youngsters behind the fish market is a wonderful place for an ap&#233;ro no matter what your age, and the restaurant (Bancogiro) is really great too.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kat</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281325</link>
		<dc:creator>kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281325</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll echo what others have said:
At non-peak times (I went in mid February), Venice is unbelievable.  My strategy was that on the first day, I would purposely get lost, just to find some un-touristed little streets.

The food is pretty bad, though.  I splurged for one meal, and went to a restaurant recommended by my guide book.  It was on the ground floor of a swanky hotel and was amazing.  Otherwise, everything I ate was overpriced and tourist-oriented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll echo what others have said:<br />
At non-peak times (I went in mid February), Venice is unbelievable.  My strategy was that on the first day, I would purposely get lost, just to find some un-touristed little streets.</p>

	<p>The food is pretty bad, though.  I splurged for one meal, and went to a restaurant recommended by my guide book.  It was on the ground floor of a swanky hotel and was amazing.  Otherwise, everything I ate was overpriced and tourist-oriented.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StevenAttewell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281208</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenAttewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281208</guid>
		<description>I just read the Debray excerpt. I dunno, I think when you are so highbrow and aesthetically-intense that you denounce the &lt;em&gt;Ode to Joy&lt;/em&gt;, you&#039;re too damn indie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I just read the Debray excerpt. I dunno, I think when you are so highbrow and aesthetically-intense that you denounce the <em>Ode to Joy</em>, you&#8217;re too damn indie.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aika S. Granzchesta</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281197</link>
		<dc:creator>Aika S. Granzchesta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281197</guid>
		<description>I prefer to stay on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drawerofdreams.net/neo-venezia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Neo Venezia&lt;/a&gt;, where the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aria_(manga)#Terms&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;undine&lt;/a&gt; are much cuter than the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondolier&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gondoliers&lt;/a&gt; of Earth&#039;s Venice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I prefer to stay on <a href="http://www.drawerofdreams.net/neo-venezia" rel="nofollow">Neo Venezia</a>, where the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aria_(manga)#Terms" rel="nofollow">undine</a> are much cuter than the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gondolier" rel="nofollow">gondoliers</a> of Earth&#8217;s Venice.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281121</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281121</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is possible to have a perfectly fine experience of Venice. Avoid San Marco, especially at peak times. Spend time in Dorsoduro and other areas, get on the vaporetto and get out to Burano and Torcello. There are certainly plently of locals doing things on Burano.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, it is possible to have a perfectly fine experience of Venice. Avoid San Marco, especially at peak times. Spend time in Dorsoduro and other areas, get on the vaporetto and get out to Burano and Torcello. There are certainly plently of locals doing things on Burano.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281120</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281120</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed the Bourdieu essay, though large parts of it only served to confirm my suspicion that an acquaintance with the phrase &quot;cultural capital&quot;, and the intuitions that phrase suggest to an economist do not go all that far in understanding cultural sociology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I enjoyed the Bourdieu essay, though large parts of it only served to confirm my suspicion that an acquaintance with the phrase &#8220;cultural capital&#8221;, and the intuitions that phrase suggest to an economist do not go all that far in understanding cultural sociology.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281118</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281118</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised nobody has referenced &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Against-Venice-Anti-Voyages-No-1/dp/1556433050&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Regis Debray&#039;s &quot;Against Venice&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.  I read it just before a trip to Italy a few years ago, and it had me convinced that I was going to hate Venice. It turned out to me among my favorite places. It probably helped that, like others who&#039;ve already commented, we went in the off-season (March, when it was plenty misty and mysterious) and stayed in an apartment in a residential section rather than a hotel. Perhaps it also helped that I went with such low expectations. But I would go back -- in winter -- in a heartbeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m surprised nobody has referenced <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Against-Venice-Anti-Voyages-No-1/dp/1556433050" rel="nofollow">Regis Debray&#8217;s &#8220;Against Venice&#8221;</a>.  I read it just before a trip to Italy a few years ago, and it had me convinced that I was going to hate Venice. It turned out to me among my favorite places. It probably helped that, like others who&#8217;ve already commented, we went in the off-season (March, when it was plenty misty and mysterious) and stayed in an apartment in a residential section rather than a hotel. Perhaps it also helped that I went with such low expectations. But I would go back&#8212;in winter&#8212;in a heartbeat.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281112</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281112</guid>
		<description>Screwed up the link. Pictures are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.beautifulhorizons.net/photos/venice_and_cannareggio/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Screwed up the link. Pictures are <a href="http://www.beautifulhorizons.net/photos/venice_and_cannareggio/index.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281111</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281111</guid>
		<description>Novakant,

Don&#039;t Look Now, but I think I saw one.

My wife and I visited Venice in March of 2007. the crowds were huge, but I believe the most fun we had was in Cannareggio, the area where we stayed. There&#039;s lots to see there: The Ghetto that gave the world the name, the church where Tintoretto is buried as well as his house, a poignant Holocaust memorial, few crowds, neighborhoods where families lived and worked and lots of stores and restaurants where I had to use my very rudimentary Italian. I have pictures ,a href=&quot;http://www.beautifulhorizons.net/photos/venice_and_cannareggio/index.html&quot;&gt;here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Novakant,</p>

	<p>Don&#8217;t Look Now, but I think I saw one.</p>

	<p>My wife and I visited Venice in March of 2007. the crowds were huge, but I believe the most fun we had was in Cannareggio, the area where we stayed. There&#8217;s lots to see there: The Ghetto that gave the world the name, the church where Tintoretto is buried as well as his house, a poignant Holocaust memorial, few crowds, neighborhoods where families lived and worked and lots of stores and restaurants where I had to use my very rudimentary Italian. I have pictures ,a href=&#8221;http://www.beautifulhorizons.net/photos/venice_and_cannareggio/index.html&#8221;>here.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: StevenAttewell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281099</link>
		<dc:creator>StevenAttewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281099</guid>
		<description>Having gone to Venice in August, I can say the tourist crowds are less substantial then. It&#039;s ungodly hot though, which tends to force a semi-nocturnal lietstyle, and Venice in the evenings in late summer is quite nice.

Although...ye gods, the canals in late summer. 

And while we&#039;re on the subject of Italian city-state republics, I&#039;ve always been more attracted to the Florentine Republic. Intellectual and cultural ferment, struggle against aristocrats both internal and external, and of course, Machiavelli.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Having gone to Venice in August, I can say the tourist crowds are less substantial then. It&#8217;s ungodly hot though, which tends to force a semi-nocturnal lietstyle, and Venice in the evenings in late summer is quite nice.</p>

	<p>Although&#8230;ye gods, the canals in late summer.</p>

	<p>And while we&#8217;re on the subject of Italian city-state republics, I&#8217;ve always been more attracted to the Florentine Republic. Intellectual and cultural ferment, struggle against aristocrats both internal and external, and of course, Machiavelli.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 'stina</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281098</link>
		<dc:creator>'stina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281098</guid>
		<description>1995, around Easter time, was lovely in Venice. A few tourists, but not many, and great explorations. 

1996, right after finals but right before Christmas, in Venice was one of the best experiences in a foreign city I&#039;ve ever had.  Almost no tourists, sun set near four, the city was coated with a mysterious and romantic fog.  My companions and I, returning from a foray to the near-empty Guggenheim stumbled upon an open air market in a piazza one night.  It was close to eight at night, but business was brisk: old books, antiques, jewelry, vintage clothes.  Nothing plastic or touristy or gauche.  It was simply lovely, and we spent a good  hour and a half or so browsing.  I&#039;m pretty sure we were the only foreigners around.    

The next morning, we went back to that piazza and all traces of the market were gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>1995, around Easter time, was lovely in Venice. A few tourists, but not many, and great explorations.</p>

	<p>1996, right after finals but right before Christmas, in Venice was one of the best experiences in a foreign city I&#8217;ve ever had.  Almost no tourists, sun set near four, the city was coated with a mysterious and romantic fog.  My companions and I, returning from a foray to the near-empty Guggenheim stumbled upon an open air market in a piazza one night.  It was close to eight at night, but business was brisk: old books, antiques, jewelry, vintage clothes.  Nothing plastic or touristy or gauche.  It was simply lovely, and we spent a good  hour and a half or so browsing.  I&#8217;m pretty sure we were the only foreigners around.</p>

	<p>The next morning, we went back to that piazza and all traces of the market were gone.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281094</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281094</guid>
		<description>Are there still disfigured dwarfs dressed in red capes running around with knives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are there still disfigured dwarfs dressed in red capes running around with knives?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Johnson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281090</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281090</guid>
		<description>I was in Venice last in early November 2007.  No crowds, no flooding,  and near perfect weather.  Sitting in the gallery of San Marco watching the sunlight move over the mosaics was wonderful.  

La Serenessima still can be found, sometimes.  Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was in Venice last in early November 2007.  No crowds, no flooding,  and near perfect weather.  Sitting in the gallery of San Marco watching the sunlight move over the mosaics was wonderful.</p>

	<p>La Serenessima still can be found, sometimes.  Cheers!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281089</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281089</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not unlike what we have in the US today, down to such details as the over-developed secret police, as well as other features of a security state.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, both commercial / maritime empires, with often aggressive foreign policies run with an eye to their oligarchs&#039; economic interests, and both began as outposts of older empires.  I never thought about it before, but there really are multiple parallels, on very different scales of course. Interesting point.

I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll be leaving quite as distinguished an artistic heritage behind, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Not unlike what we have in the US today, down to such details as the over-developed secret police, as well as other features of a security state.</blockquote></p>

	<p>Also, both commercial / maritime empires, with often aggressive foreign policies run with an eye to their oligarchs&#8217; economic interests, and both began as outposts of older empires.  I never thought about it before, but there really are multiple parallels, on very different scales of course. Interesting point.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll be leaving quite as distinguished an artistic heritage behind, though.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: des von bladet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/01/dispatch-from-venice-%e2%80%93-serenissima-no-more/comment-page-1/#comment-281088</link>
		<dc:creator>des von bladet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=11851#comment-281088</guid>
		<description>I went to Venice once,  a few years ago, just before however they spell carnival.   It was actually quite enigmatic and pleasant, although my perceptions were certainly improved by the fact that I was there for work and never got anywhere near the touriste areas.  

(I wasn&#039;t really interested in Heritage except for Paperino and Dylan Dog, which I am happy to inform timberites are widely available at kiosks even in the quietest parts of the city.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I went to Venice once,  a few years ago, just before however they spell carnival.   It was actually quite enigmatic and pleasant, although my perceptions were certainly improved by the fact that I was there for work and never got anywhere near the touriste areas.</p>

	<p>(I wasn&#8217;t really interested in Heritage except for Paperino and Dylan Dog, which I am happy to inform timberites are widely available at kiosks even in the quietest parts of the city.)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
