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	<title>Comments on: Scialabba viewed from the Antipodes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:56:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-288353</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-288353</guid>
		<description>Just got a copy of WAIGF myself recently, and I can&#039;t remember the last nonfiction book I found so un-put-downable. Good stuff.

One thing does bug me tho: No black people. It&#039;s not just that the subjects of the essays are all white: He doesn&#039;t have to admire anyone non-white if he doesn&#039;t want to (tho it might be nice; he does at least manage to shoehorn in Ellen Willis and Martha Nussbaum) but he doesn&#039;t even mention anyone black except with curt dismissals. bell hooks is unreadable, Toni Morrison should never have won a Nobel, etc. (And there isn&#039;t even much etc.) As far as I can tell, race as a factor in American politics and and culture just doesn&#039;t figure at all, except (again very briefly, and in passing) as something that shouldn&#039;t influence the curriculum or that working class whites might have legitimate grievances over.  

Which again, doesn&#039;t change the fact that Scialabba&#039;s style and sensibility are hugely praiseworthy. But it is a little puzzling. Maybe there just weren&#039;t any African-Americans in the New York intellectual world where his roots are. (Weren&#039;t there?) But it does seem unfortunate that insofar as race actually is an important part of American history, Scialabba is no help in thinking about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just got a copy of <span class="caps">WAIGF</span> myself recently, and I can&#8217;t remember the last nonfiction book I found so un-put-downable. Good stuff.</p>

	<p>One thing does bug me tho: No black people. It&#8217;s not just that the subjects of the essays are all white: He doesn&#8217;t have to admire anyone non-white if he doesn&#8217;t want to (tho it might be nice; he does at least manage to shoehorn in Ellen Willis and Martha Nussbaum) but he doesn&#8217;t even mention anyone black except with curt dismissals. bell hooks is unreadable, Toni Morrison should never have won a Nobel, etc. (And there isn&#8217;t even much etc.) As far as I can tell, race as a factor in American politics and and culture just doesn&#8217;t figure at all, except (again very briefly, and in passing) as something that shouldn&#8217;t influence the curriculum or that working class whites might have legitimate grievances over.</p>

	<p>Which again, doesn&#8217;t change the fact that Scialabba&#8217;s style and sensibility are hugely praiseworthy. But it is a little puzzling. Maybe there just weren&#8217;t any African-Americans in the New York intellectual world where his roots are. (Weren&#8217;t there?) But it does seem unfortunate that insofar as race actually is an important part of American history, Scialabba is no help in thinking about it.</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-288036</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-288036</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Have intellectuals always been propagandists for the ruling class or has there been a time or place that the intellectuals’ concerns were to shed light on objective realities and the consequences of historical events?&lt;/i&gt;

The first chapter of &lt;i&gt;What Are Intellectuals Good For?&lt;/i&gt;, and especially the first eight or ten pages, address this question, more or less. The overall argument is that, for the most part, intellectuals weren&#039;t important enough to be coopted until the advent of mass production, which necessitated mass literacy, which in turn necessitated the manufacture of consent.  The response of the ruling class was public relations, advertising, and business/government funding and monitoring of the university.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Have intellectuals always been propagandists for the ruling class or has there been a time or place that the intellectuals&#8217; concerns were to shed light on objective realities and the consequences of historical events?</i></p>

	<p>The first chapter of <i>What Are Intellectuals Good For?</i>, and especially the first eight or ten pages, address this question, more or less. The overall argument is that, for the most part, intellectuals weren&#8217;t important enough to be coopted until the advent of mass production, which necessitated mass literacy, which in turn necessitated the manufacture of consent.  The response of the ruling class was public relations, advertising, and business/government funding and monitoring of the university.</p>
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		<title>By: gd wall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287979</link>
		<dc:creator>gd wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287979</guid>
		<description>Have intellectuals always been propagandists for the ruling class or has there been a time or place that the intellectuals&#039; concerns were to shed light on objective realities and the consequences of historical events? It seems that the modern approach to expanding the knowledge of others is to insert as many manipulative arguments to bring people around to conclusions that are patently false or misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Have intellectuals always been propagandists for the ruling class or has there been a time or place that the intellectuals&#8217; concerns were to shed light on objective realities and the consequences of historical events? It seems that the modern approach to expanding the knowledge of others is to insert as many manipulative arguments to bring people around to conclusions that are patently false or misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287975</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287975</guid>
		<description>What I meant to say was: 

The Non-Partisan League in North Dakota, in 1918 America’s nearest approach to an actual soc*al*st party and an influence on the Progressive Party in Canada, was formally Republican.

If soc*al*sm gives you an erection lasting more than four hours, get an additional girl friend or see your doctor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What I meant to say was:</p>

	<p>The Non-Partisan League in North Dakota, in 1918 America&#8217;s nearest approach to an actual soc*al*st party and an influence on the Progressive Party in Canada, was formally Republican.</p>

	<p>If soc*al*sm gives you an erection lasting more than four hours, get an additional girl friend or see your doctor.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287967</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287967</guid>
		<description>An amusing example is the &quot;deep&quot; debate among US legal scholars about whether  quoting (!) foreign decisions should be verboten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>An amusing example is the &#8220;deep&#8221; debate among US legal scholars about whether  quoting (!) foreign decisions should be verboten.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287953</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287953</guid>
		<description>A century ago - or any time up to about 1912 - you could make a good case that the GOP was the more leftish of the major political parties; they were certainly closer to &#039;left&#039; intellectuals than the Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A century ago &#8211; or any time up to about 1912 &#8211; you could make a good case that the <span class="caps">GOP</span> was the more leftish of the major political parties; they were certainly closer to &#8216;left&#8217; intellectuals than the Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287951</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287951</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Much more than in most other countries I’m familiar with, there’s a deep gulf in the US between ‘left’ intellectuals and the more leftish of the major political parties, that is, the Democrats.&lt;/i&gt;

And this didn&#039;t used to be the case, even one century ago!

(We can blame A. Mitchell Palmer and J. Edgar Hoover for the divergence.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Much more than in most other countries I&#8217;m familiar with, there&#8217;s a deep gulf in the US between &#8216;left&#8217; intellectuals and the more leftish of the major political parties, that is, the Democrats.</i></p>

	<p>And this didn&#8217;t used to be the case, even one century ago!</p>

	<p>(We can blame A. Mitchell Palmer and J. Edgar Hoover for the divergence.)</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287950</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 20:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287950</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The intellectuals’ can’t even conceive of simply copying a system that works better.&lt;/i&gt;

You are a more generous person than I: I would not call the sign-wielding protesters, such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/Images/health-care-protest.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these fine folks&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;i&gt;intellectuals.&lt;/i&gt;

(I am fond of the sign that says IF CONGRESS LIKES OBAMACARE SO MUCH WHY DON&#039;T THEY TEST DRIVE IT 1^ST^ and would like to send the protester a response sign that says BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO TEST IT ON OLD AND POOR PEOPLE / WHAT DID YOU THINK MEDICARE-MEDICAID WAS / WAKE UP SHEEPLE.)

In fact, I&#039;m pretty sure most American intellectuals are completely in sympathy with you. Thomas More had something to say about us staying indoors during a rainstorm?

&lt;i&gt;I think this is in part what the netroots people are on about when they deny being leftwing&lt;/i&gt;

Isn&#039;t this just to avoid marginalization? In my non-pseudonymous life I spend copious amounts of time expressing my un-left-wingness, my mainstreamularity, my centerosity. It&#039;s a standard means for shifting the population in your political direction, especially the mushy-middle folks who don&#039;t pay much attention to politics and can&#039;t understand people who do, who vote with whoever makes &#039;em feel kinda good and can&#039;t understand people who don&#039;t.

The netroots proclaiming themselves not-left-wing is standard gut-realignment: &quot;Hey, I&#039;m not all that different from you, and so-and-so is a good person.&quot;

Eh, but you know that. Guess I just want to throw in my thought that, when netroots folks call themselves not-left-wing, they are not first evaluating their own opinions relative to some world-wide scale of left/right and checking to see where they lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The intellectuals&#8217; can&#8217;t even conceive of simply copying a system that works better.</i></p>

	<p>You are a more generous person than I: I would not call the sign-wielding protesters, such as <a href="http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Health/Images/health-care-protest.jpg" rel="nofollow">these fine folks</a>, <i>intellectuals.</i></p>

	<p>(I am fond of the sign that says <span class="caps">IF CONGRESS LIKES OBAMACARE SO MUCH WHY DON</span>&#8217;T <span class="caps">THEY TEST DRIVE IT 1</span><sup>ST</sup> and would like to send the protester a response sign that says <span class="caps">BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO TEST IT ON OLD AND POOR PEOPLE </span>/ WHAT <span class="caps">DID YOU THINK MEDICARE</span>-MEDICAID <span class="caps">WAS </span>/ WAKE <span class="caps">UP SHEEPLE</span>.)</p>

	<p>In fact, I&#8217;m pretty sure most American intellectuals are completely in sympathy with you. Thomas More had something to say about us staying indoors during a rainstorm?</p>

	<p><i>I think this is in part what the netroots people are on about when they deny being leftwing</i></p>

	<p>Isn&#8217;t this just to avoid marginalization? In my non-pseudonymous life I spend copious amounts of time expressing my un-left-wingness, my mainstreamularity, my centerosity. It&#8217;s a standard means for shifting the population in your political direction, especially the mushy-middle folks who don&#8217;t pay much attention to politics and can&#8217;t understand people who do, who vote with whoever makes &#8216;em feel kinda good and can&#8217;t understand people who don&#8217;t.</p>

	<p>The netroots proclaiming themselves not-left-wing is standard gut-realignment: &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;m not all that different from you, and so-and-so is a good person.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Eh, but you know that. Guess I just want to throw in my thought that, when netroots folks call themselves not-left-wing, they are not first evaluating their own opinions relative to some world-wide scale of left/right and checking to see where they lie.</p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287949</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287949</guid>
		<description>Speaking of which, did you see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?em=&amp;pagewanted=print&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Krugman&#039;s new piece on where economics went wrong? &lt;/a&gt;  A bit curiously - considering it is him - he doesn&#039;t mention international developments although it would clearly serve to strengthen the overall Keynesian position. Not least the Japanese experience in the 90s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Speaking of which, did you see <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?em=&#038;pagewanted=print" rel="nofollow">Krugman&#8217;s new piece on where economics went wrong? </a>  A bit curiously &#8211; considering it is him &#8211; he doesn&#8217;t mention international developments although it would clearly serve to strengthen the overall Keynesian position. Not least the Japanese experience in the 90s.</p>
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		<title>By: evil is evil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/06/scialabba-viewed-from-the-antipodes/comment-page-1/#comment-287948</link>
		<dc:creator>evil is evil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12839#comment-287948</guid>
		<description>You want a perfect example of intellectual parochialism, look no further than the health care nonsense.

We can adopt the policies of ANY one of the 35 best counties in the world and we will be ahead.  Oh, no. The intellectuals&#039; can&#039;t even conceive of simply copying a system that works better. Foreign, not made here, yup, you got more parochialism than I can stand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You want a perfect example of intellectual parochialism, look no further than the health care nonsense.</p>

	<p>We can adopt the policies of <span class="caps">ANY</span> one of the 35 best counties in the world and we will be ahead.  Oh, no. The intellectuals&#8217; can&#8217;t even conceive of simply copying a system that works better. Foreign, not made here, yup, you got more parochialism than I can stand.</p>
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