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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t pay the Ferryman</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:14:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288384</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288384</guid>
		<description>Um, yes, when they&#039;re taking the mickey....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Um, yes, when they&#8217;re taking the mickey&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Xanthippas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288360</link>
		<dc:creator>Xanthippas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 04:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288360</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;(I liked his earlier stuff much better) &lt;/i&gt;

People say this about even &lt;i&gt;Chris de Burgh&lt;/i&gt;??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>(I liked his earlier stuff much better) </i></p>

	<p>People say this about even <i>Chris de Burgh</i>??</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: weaver</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288356</link>
		<dc:creator>weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 02:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288356</guid>
		<description>I always confuse him with Chris Rea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I always confuse him with Chris Rea.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Dornan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288351</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Dornan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288351</guid>
		<description>Hmn and nobody has commented on the ethics of writing reviews that are a &#039;tad ungenerous&#039;, or whether perhaps selling a gazillion records to people that believe they will be made &#039;crazily happy&#039; by them might not &lt;em&gt;reinforce&lt;/em&gt; the case for writing such ungenerous reviews.

Though, in all fairness, it took me a while to get round to addressing these points myself in &lt;a href=&quot;http://senseorsensibility.com/blog/the-ethics-of-criticism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Ethics of Criticism&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmn and nobody has commented on the ethics of writing reviews that are a &#8216;tad ungenerous&#8217;, or whether perhaps selling a gazillion records to people that believe they will be made &#8216;crazily happy&#8217; by them might not <em>reinforce</em> the case for writing such ungenerous reviews.</p>

	<p>Though, in all fairness, it took me a while to get round to addressing these points myself in <a href="http://senseorsensibility.com/blog/the-ethics-of-criticism/" rel="nofollow"><i>The Ethics of Criticism</i></a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288349</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288349</guid>
		<description>I owned up to it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I owned up to it!</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288348</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288348</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Nation of Ulysses&lt;/i&gt;

That shit is like 20 years old, man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Nation of Ulysses</i></p>

	<p>That shit is like 20 years old, man.</p>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288347</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288347</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But why is wanting to see New Order perform Blue Monday nostalgia?&lt;/blockquote&gt;They&#039;re old.  Why is going to see some new band just teen ritual?  They&#039;re new.  Somewhere out there people &lt;i&gt;actually want to see stuff&lt;/i&gt; but they&#039;re snobs.

Feeling nostalgic for the Nation of Ulysses:

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m not talking about a Beatles song
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;Written 100 years before I was born
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;They&#039;re all talking about the round and round
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;But who&#039;s got the real anti-parent culture sound?&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>But why is wanting to see New Order perform Blue Monday nostalgia?</blockquote>They&#8217;re old.  Why is going to see some new band just teen ritual?  They&#8217;re new.  Somewhere out there people <i>actually want to see stuff</i> but they&#8217;re snobs.</p>

	<p>Feeling nostalgic for the Nation of Ulysses:</p>

	<p><i>I&#8217;m not talking about a Beatles song<br />
</i><i>Written 100 years before I was born<br />
</i><i>They&#8217;re all talking about the round and round<br />
</i><i>But who&#8217;s got the real anti-parent culture sound?</i></p>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288345</link>
		<dc:creator>Keir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288345</guid>
		<description>But why is wanting to see New Order perform Blue Monday nostalgia? New Order playing Blue Monday is one of the greatest achievements of western civ; it isn&#039;t that I want to see New Order play Blue Monday for nostalgic reasons, for, after all, if they were to write Blue Monday tomorrow, it would still be a Good Thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But why is wanting to see New Order perform Blue Monday nostalgia? New Order playing Blue Monday is one of the greatest achievements of western civ; it isn&#8217;t that I want to see New Order play Blue Monday for nostalgic reasons, for, after all, if they were to write Blue Monday tomorrow, it would still be a Good Thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288344</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288344</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Where I live the folks in the orchestra call the crowds that turn out for this stuff “bluehairs”. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right.  I do, however, think this isn&#039;t quite comparable in ways that have everything to do with the previous discussion about rock music and authenticity and all that.  If it &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; comparable, then people would be happy to fill stadiums to watch an accomplished band do covers of the Rolling Stones.

Nevertheless, to some degree it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; comparable.  And you can see this in theater and opera, too.   There&#039;s a large constituency who wants to see the standards and can&#039;t stand anything new and they &lt;i&gt;greatly&lt;/i&gt; intersect with the group that is relatively very  uninformed about music (or theater, or opera) and is attending these shows primarily for a number of reasons which are entirely independent of aesthetics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><i>Where I live the folks in the orchestra call the crowds that turn out for this stuff &#8220;bluehairs&#8221;. </i></blockquote></p>

	<p>Right.  I do, however, think this isn&#8217;t quite comparable in ways that have everything to do with the previous discussion about rock music and authenticity and all that.  If it <i>were</i> comparable, then people would be happy to fill stadiums to watch an accomplished band do covers of the Rolling Stones.</p>

	<p>Nevertheless, to some degree it <i>is</i> comparable.  And you can see this in theater and opera, too.   There&#8217;s a large constituency who wants to see the standards and can&#8217;t stand anything new and they <i>greatly</i> intersect with the group that is relatively very  uninformed about music (or theater, or opera) and is attending these shows primarily for a number of reasons which are entirely independent of aesthetics.</p>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288340</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288340</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Bach, Mozart, Beethoven…all nostalgia acts!&lt;/blockquote&gt;Where I live the folks in the orchestra call the crowds that turn out for this stuff &quot;bluehairs&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Bach, Mozart, Beethoven&#8230;all nostalgia acts!</blockquote>Where I live the folks in the orchestra call the crowds that turn out for this stuff &#8220;bluehairs&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: PGD</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288339</link>
		<dc:creator>PGD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288339</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; A good test is whether, at a typical show, they can get away with performing mostly new music, or whether their fans demand mostly or entirely their favorites from yesteryear. If it’s the latter, then they’re a nostalgia act. &lt;/i&gt;

Bach, Mozart, Beethoven...all nostalgia acts!

Originality and contemporary relevance can come in performing previously written music, not just writing new stuff. Especially since most modern music styles allow for significant improvisation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> A good test is whether, at a typical show, they can get away with performing mostly new music, or whether their fans demand mostly or entirely their favorites from yesteryear. If it&#8217;s the latter, then they&#8217;re a nostalgia act. </i></p>

	<p>Bach, Mozart, Beethoven&#8230;all nostalgia acts!</p>

	<p>Originality and contemporary relevance can come in performing previously written music, not just writing new stuff. Especially since most modern music styles allow for significant improvisation.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: toby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288335</link>
		<dc:creator>toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288335</guid>
		<description>Chris de Burgh ain&#039;t half bad since Johnny Logan came along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Chris de Burgh ain&#8217;t half bad since Johnny Logan came along.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288329</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288329</guid>
		<description>Perhaps Keith&#039;s criteria exempt TJ, who keeps on keeping on (Vegas pop&#039;s Dylan perhaps). I can&#039;t imagine he gets away without doing Delilah and Kiss, but he does seem, determinedly, to have kept on doing new things and being permitted to by his fans. Cliff too, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Perhaps Keith&#8217;s criteria exempt TJ, who keeps on keeping on (Vegas pop&#8217;s Dylan perhaps). I can&#8217;t imagine he gets away without doing Delilah and Kiss, but he does seem, determinedly, to have kept on doing new things and being permitted to by his fans. Cliff too, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith M Ellis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288328</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith M Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288328</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Bonnie Raitt is pretty good, actually—not exactly a nostalgia act. Go!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can see that.  There is, of course, a continuum and there are a few of these kinds of performers who are worth seeing at one end of it.

It seems to me, though, that the relevant distinction here is the point at which performers stop evolving and being relevant within their genre in an ongoing sense.  A good test is whether, at a typical show, they can get away with performing mostly new music, or whether their fans demand mostly or entirely their favorites from yesteryear.  If it&#039;s the latter, then they&#039;re a nostalgia act.  Personally, I can&#039;t think of any popular music act I&#039;d like to see in that context, up to and including (as a counterfactual) the Beatles.

I recognize that I&#039;m snobbish about this and so I&#039;m wiling to accept as reasonable seeing nostalgia acts who are widely regarded to have been very good and important.  (Grudgingly.)  But .38 Special?  Van Halen?  I graduated from high school in 1982 and my friends and I were &lt;i&gt;crazy&lt;/i&gt; for Van Halen.  I&#039;m sorry to say that some of them still are.  I find this, well, pathetic.  And these concerts tickets aren&#039;t cheap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><i>Bonnie Raitt is pretty good, actually&#8212;not exactly a nostalgia act. Go!</i></blockquote></p>

	<p>I can see that.  There is, of course, a continuum and there are a few of these kinds of performers who are worth seeing at one end of it.</p>

	<p>It seems to me, though, that the relevant distinction here is the point at which performers stop evolving and being relevant within their genre in an ongoing sense.  A good test is whether, at a typical show, they can get away with performing mostly new music, or whether their fans demand mostly or entirely their favorites from yesteryear.  If it&#8217;s the latter, then they&#8217;re a nostalgia act.  Personally, I can&#8217;t think of any popular music act I&#8217;d like to see in that context, up to and including (as a counterfactual) the Beatles.</p>

	<p>I recognize that I&#8217;m snobbish about this and so I&#8217;m wiling to accept as reasonable seeing nostalgia acts who are widely regarded to have been very good and important.  (Grudgingly.)  But .38 Special?  Van Halen?  I graduated from high school in 1982 and my friends and I were <i>crazy</i> for Van Halen.  I&#8217;m sorry to say that some of them still are.  I find this, well, pathetic.  And these concerts tickets aren&#8217;t cheap.</p>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/11/dont-pay-the-ferryman/comment-page-1/#comment-288324</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=12921#comment-288324</guid>
		<description>For some reason 1982 in Ireland will always remind me of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOYmTZZIFkU&amp;feature=related&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Charlene&lt;/a&gt; - heavy rotation does things to you...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For some reason 1982 in Ireland will always remind me of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOYmTZZIFkU&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">Charlene</a> &#8211; heavy rotation does things to you&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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