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	<title>Comments on: The Economics of 3D Movies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289338</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289338</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Maybe, if shoplifting, fare dodging or tax evasion could be done with minimal risk of getting caught, people would do that as well. They can’t.&lt;/i&gt;

In some places and times, people have been able to do those things with minimal risk of getting caught.  They almost always do.

Also, almost everyone who buys an album distributes it to *some* people for free, at least in the sense of playing it for them.  Only a few want to share it with hundreds of thousands, but then, it only takes a few.

I would also point out that the arts have been around before copyright and commercialization and will almost certainly be around after (especially if humans in general have more leisure time).

It may become harder to make millions of dollars making a film, but I don&#039;t see that in itself as something necessarily worth preserving.  Certainly it leads to being able to make films that cost millions of dollars, but since the cost of filmmaking is declining precipitously, it&#039;s not clear that you need that kind of massive resource approach anymore.  (It&#039;s also not clear that it ever produced, or currently produces, better films than the alternatives.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Maybe, if shoplifting, fare dodging or tax evasion could be done with minimal risk of getting caught, people would do that as well. They can&#8217;t.</i></p>

	<p>In some places and times, people have been able to do those things with minimal risk of getting caught.  They almost always do.</p>

	<p>Also, almost everyone who buys an album distributes it to <strong>some</strong> people for free, at least in the sense of playing it for them.  Only a few want to share it with hundreds of thousands, but then, it only takes a few.</p>

	<p>I would also point out that the arts have been around before copyright and commercialization and will almost certainly be around after (especially if humans in general have more leisure time).</p>

	<p>It may become harder to make millions of dollars making a film, but I don&#8217;t see that in itself as something necessarily worth preserving.  Certainly it leads to being able to make films that cost millions of dollars, but since the cost of filmmaking is declining precipitously, it&#8217;s not clear that you need that kind of massive resource approach anymore.  (It&#8217;s also not clear that it ever produced, or currently produces, better films than the alternatives.)</p>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289257</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289257</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I dispute the “as they used to” as facts not in evidence.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, I can&#039;t look into people&#039;s hearts. Maybe they really wanted to distribute the album they bought to hundreds of thousands of people for free. They couldn&#039;t. Maybe, if shoplifting, fare dodging or tax evasion could be done with minimal risk of getting caught, people would do that as well. They can&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>I dispute the &#8220;as they used to&#8221; as facts not in evidence.</em></p>

	<p>Well, I can&#8217;t look into people&#8217;s hearts. Maybe they really wanted to distribute the album they bought to hundreds of thousands of people for free. They couldn&#8217;t. Maybe, if shoplifting, fare dodging or tax evasion could be done with minimal risk of getting caught, people would do that as well. They can&#8217;t.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289250</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289250</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The whole problem could easily be solved, if people respected respected creative work as they used to and stopped pirating films.&lt;/i&gt;

I dispute the &quot;as they used to&quot; as facts not in evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The whole problem could easily be solved, if people respected respected creative work as they used to and stopped pirating films.</i></p>

	<p>I dispute the &#8220;as they used to&#8221; as facts not in evidence.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289244</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289244</guid>
		<description>Films will always be made under whatever economic circumstances - so no, film as an art form will not vanish. But that in itself does not mean that piracy doesn&#039;t have a very tangible effect on the film industry and the people involved with it - if some restaurant customers consistently refused to pay for their meals, just because they somehow could, there would still be restaurants, but they would have a harder time staying in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Films will always be made under whatever economic circumstances &#8211; so no, film as an art form will not vanish. But that in itself does not mean that piracy doesn&#8217;t have a very tangible effect on the film industry and the people involved with it &#8211; if some restaurant customers consistently refused to pay for their meals, just because they somehow could, there would still be restaurants, but they would have a harder time staying in business.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289227</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289227</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Of course if you don’t care all that much about film, you don’t care, and there’s not much that can be done about that. &lt;/blockquote&gt;But I do.  And films are being made.  Every city worth being called a city seems to have a festival with films to show.  And people watch them, one way or another.  

It may be that the communal experience of film is going away, and I&#039;d miss that, but I don&#039;t see evidence of the death of an art form.

Are there fewer films being made now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Of course if you don&#8217;t care all that much about film, you don&#8217;t care, and there&#8217;s not much that can be done about that. </blockquote>But I do.  And films are being made.  Every city worth being called a city seems to have a festival with films to show.  And people watch them, one way or another.</p>

	<p>It may be that the communal experience of film is going away, and I&#8217;d miss that, but I don&#8217;t see evidence of the death of an art form.</p>

	<p>Are there fewer films being made now?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289221</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289221</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I don’t take it for granted that an industry maintaining a market it’s always had is the same thing as a problem I should be concerned with.(...) Is there some larger problem afoot?&lt;/em&gt;

Yes, because we are not talking about toilet paper, but about the future of an art form and a pretty amazing one at that. Now, of course one could say that, say, all these guys: 

http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/index.html

should make (or have made) films in IMAX 3D format or whatever, and otherwise sod them, who cares - but that seems rather callous and ignorant. Of course if you don&#039;t care all that much about film, you don&#039;t care, and there&#039;s not much that can be done about that. But &lt;em&gt;a lot&lt;/em&gt; of people do, without even taking into account those involved in the production, distribution and marketing of film, whose livelihood depends on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>I don&#8217;t take it for granted that an industry maintaining a market it&#8217;s always had is the same thing as a problem I should be concerned with.(&#8230;) Is there some larger problem afoot?</em></p>

	<p>Yes, because we are not talking about toilet paper, but about the future of an art form and a pretty amazing one at that. Now, of course one could say that, say, all these guys:</p>

	<p><a href="http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://archive.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/index.html</a></p>

	<p>should make (or have made) films in <span class="caps">IMAX 3D</span> format or whatever, and otherwise sod them, who cares &#8211; but that seems rather callous and ignorant. Of course if you don&#8217;t care all that much about film, you don&#8217;t care, and there&#8217;s not much that can be done about that. But <em>a lot</em> of people do, without even taking into account those involved in the production, distribution and marketing of film, whose livelihood depends on it.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289194</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289194</guid>
		<description>Well, sure, the problem of how to get people to buy X can be a fun one. 

Is there some larger problem afoot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, sure, the problem of how to get people to buy X can be a fun one.</p>

	<p>Is there some larger problem afoot?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Cryptic ned</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289192</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptic ned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289192</guid>
		<description>But you do take it for granted that when someone says &quot;The problem&quot;, it means &quot;The problem that I should be concerned with&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But you do take it for granted that when someone says &#8220;The problem&#8221;, it means &#8220;The problem that I should be concerned with&#8221;.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289191</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289191</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Seems to me the problem is quite clear:&lt;/blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t take it for granted that an industry maintaining a market it&#039;s always had is the same thing as a problem I should be concerned with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Seems to me the problem is quite clear:</blockquote>I don&#8217;t take it for granted that an industry maintaining a market it&#8217;s always had is the same thing as a problem I should be concerned with.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289190</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 02:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289190</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;What’s the problem? &lt;/em&gt;

Seems to me the problem is quite clear:

&lt;em&gt;The problem with the movie home viewing market is that there is a substitute that is relatively good, and cheap-to-free – pirated movies via your BitTorrent service of choice. (...) I would be thinking very, very seriously about ways to differentiate my product and move into a more secure market where individuals were less likely to be able to upload free competitors to my product and hence cut my margin to ribbons.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>What&#8217;s the problem? </em></p>

	<p>Seems to me the problem is quite clear:</p>

	<p><em>The problem with the movie home viewing market is that there is a substitute that is relatively good, and cheap-to-free &#8211; pirated movies via your BitTorrent service of choice. (&#8230;) I would be thinking very, very seriously about ways to differentiate my product and move into a more secure market where individuals were less likely to be able to upload free competitors to my product and hence cut my margin to ribbons.</em></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Substance McGravitas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289184</link>
		<dc:creator>Substance McGravitas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289184</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The whole problem could easily be solved&lt;/blockquote&gt;What&#039;s the problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>The whole problem could easily be solved</blockquote>What&#8217;s the problem?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289179</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289179</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;In the movie industry, I’d recommend that movie theatres consider going to IMAX across the board, and that Hollywood start making movies with that as the base format. &lt;/em&gt;

You don&#039;t seem to be aware what a cumbersome and incredibly expensive process filming in the IMAX format is and the same goes for distribution and projection. Essentially the consequence of your suggestion would be that films could only be made by big studios with deep pockets. Also, the vast majority of productions are simply not suited to the IMAX workflow. 

In the age of increasing democratization through digital technology (you can get a RED camera, which shoots at 4K, with lenses for around $25.000 and set up a more or less professional editing and color grading suite for an additional $10.000), relying on expensive gimmicks and focussing &quot;user experience&quot; instead of content would be exactly the wrong signal to send. 

The whole problem could easily be solved, if people respected respected creative work as they used to and stopped pirating films.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>In the movie industry, I&#8217;d recommend that movie theatres consider going to <span class="caps">IMAX</span> across the board, and that Hollywood start making movies with that as the base format. </em></p>

	<p>You don&#8217;t seem to be aware what a cumbersome and incredibly expensive process filming in the <span class="caps">IMAX</span> format is and the same goes for distribution and projection. Essentially the consequence of your suggestion would be that films could only be made by big studios with deep pockets. Also, the vast majority of productions are simply not suited to the <span class="caps">IMAX</span> workflow.</p>

	<p>In the age of increasing democratization through digital technology (you can get a <span class="caps">RED</span> camera, which shoots at 4K, with lenses for around $25.000 and set up a more or less professional editing and color grading suite for an additional $10.000), relying on expensive gimmicks and focussing &#8220;user experience&#8221; instead of content would be exactly the wrong signal to send.</p>

	<p>The whole problem could easily be solved, if people respected respected creative work as they used to and stopped pirating films.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289162</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289162</guid>
		<description>A century ago, musicians could make a living with live performances.  Recordings weren&#039;t an issue yet.  A musical career was very different.  There were no &quot;superstars&quot; that everyone had heard hundreds of times.  The market was much worse for the very best musicians, but much better for the majority of musicians.  In a way, the advent of the internet can be seen as a return to trend for music.  It&#039;s the end of the brief period when studio capital was able to, and was necessary to, give a musician access to a large audience (and vice versa).

I&#039;ve seen a couple of the new 3D movies.  They look good if you&#039;re in the rear center of the theater.  Otherwise, they don&#039;t look good to me.  I think that they render each camera angle with the assumption that the viewer is looking at the screen at a level angle along the center line.  If you&#039;re in front of the theater on the side, it looks horrible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A century ago, musicians could make a living with live performances.  Recordings weren&#8217;t an issue yet.  A musical career was very different.  There were no &#8220;superstars&#8221; that everyone had heard hundreds of times.  The market was much worse for the very best musicians, but much better for the majority of musicians.  In a way, the advent of the internet can be seen as a return to trend for music.  It&#8217;s the end of the brief period when studio capital was able to, and was necessary to, give a musician access to a large audience (and vice versa).</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve seen a couple of the new 3D movies.  They look good if you&#8217;re in the rear center of the theater.  Otherwise, they don&#8217;t look good to me.  I think that they render each camera angle with the assumption that the viewer is looking at the screen at a level angle along the center line.  If you&#8217;re in front of the theater on the side, it looks horrible.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289092</link>
		<dc:creator>Keir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289092</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;a truly 3D movie would be one where the 3D was so integral to the storytelling and the visuals and the experience that seeing it in 2D would be like seeing a giant-robots-throwing-buildings-at-each-other blockbuster as a flipbook while a hyperactive eight-year-old supplied the sound effects by shouting “BANG!” and “CRASH!” in your ear. Such a film would be expensive to produce and market and could never hope to recoup.&lt;/i&gt;

Who knew Cory Doctorow was such a Greenbergian formalist?

(Did you know that (a) colour is an important part of most paintings, and (b) you can make money selling black-and-white engravings of paintings, if you exist in the right time period?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>a truly 3D movie would be one where the 3D was so integral to the storytelling and the visuals and the experience that seeing it in 2D would be like seeing a giant-robots-throwing-buildings-at-each-other blockbuster as a flipbook while a hyperactive eight-year-old supplied the sound effects by shouting &#8220;BANG!&#8221; and &#8220;CRASH!&#8221; in your ear. Such a film would be expensive to produce and market and could never hope to recoup.</i></p>

	<p>Who knew Cory Doctorow was such a Greenbergian formalist?</p>

	<p>(Did you know that (a) colour is an important part of most paintings, and (b) you can make money selling black-and-white engravings of paintings, if you exist in the right time period?)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sage Ross</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/21/the-economics-of-3d-movies/comment-page-1/#comment-289084</link>
		<dc:creator>Sage Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13058#comment-289084</guid>
		<description>Tom West in comment #2:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Doesn’t look good for any of the arts that are digitizable and work by individually touching their audience.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Only if by &quot;doesn&#039;t look good&quot; you mean &quot;doesn&#039;t look good for the content industries&quot;.  As a music fan, I say the death of the music industry can&#039;t come soon enough.  Photography, as an art, has never been richer and more diverse.  Obviously, these are things that can be done well by individuals without much money.  But movies and TV are getting closer to feasibility on a hobbyist (or hobbyist collective) budget.  Should Hollywood pass away, we would not lack great medium- and long-form video art (if great in a different way) for long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom West in comment #2:<br />
<blockquote>Doesn&#8217;t look good for any of the arts that are digitizable and work by individually touching their audience.</blockquote><br />
Only if by &#8220;doesn&#8217;t look good&#8221; you mean &#8220;doesn&#8217;t look good for the content industries&#8221;.  As a music fan, I say the death of the music industry can&#8217;t come soon enough.  Photography, as an art, has never been richer and more diverse.  Obviously, these are things that can be done well by individuals without much money.  But movies and TV are getting closer to feasibility on a hobbyist (or hobbyist collective) budget.  Should Hollywood pass away, we would not lack great medium- and long-form video art (if great in a different way) for long.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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