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	<title>Comments on: Rotten Borough</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:14:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289519</link>
		<dc:creator>eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289519</guid>
		<description>Hell, the US has a rotten state problem and I don&#039;t mean Texas.  California has over 35 million people and WY, VT, AL, ND, SD, DE and MT have less than 1.   Fold VT in with NH, sell Alaska back to the Russians, combine ND and SD, merge DE and MD and MT and WY.   Give the extra senate seats to CA, TX, NY and FL.  It&#039;s almost party neutral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hell, the US has a rotten state problem and I don&#8217;t mean Texas.  California has over 35 million people and WY, VT, AL, ND, SD, DE and MT have less than 1.   Fold VT in with NH, sell Alaska back to the Russians, combine ND and SD, merge DE and MD and MT and WY.   Give the extra senate seats to CA, TX, NY and FL.  It&#8217;s almost party neutral.</p>
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		<title>By: Witt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289516</link>
		<dc:creator>Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289516</guid>
		<description>OK, a couple of links on the proposed census boycott.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/08/proposed_boycott_of_census_divides_immigrant_community_in_massachusetts/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Boston Globe&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;The proposed boycott - organized this spring by the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders, a group based in Washington that represents 20,000 churches nationwide, including 300 in Massachusetts - is stirring deep divisions among immigrant communities. It faces stiff opposition from a string of advocacy groups, including the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, the Service Employees International Union, and the Brazilian Immigrant Center. To this point, the boycott effort has revolved mainly around word-of-mouth, talk radio, and blog entries by some members of participating churches.&lt;/i&gt;

And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fox21online.com/news/clergy-group-asks-latino-immigrants-boycott-census&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wisconsin Public Radio&lt;/a&gt; has the same story. 

It&#039;s been the subject of vigorous debate in the Spanish-language press since at least February. The outreach people I talked to most recently were bemoaning the fact that some politicians are telling people not to participate. I would have assumed that they meant the right-wing ones, but the outreach area they work in is heavily Democratic, so who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, a couple of links on the proposed census boycott.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/08/proposed_boycott_of_census_divides_immigrant_community_in_massachusetts/" rel="nofollow">The Boston Globe</a>:</p>

	<p><i>The proposed boycott &#8211; organized this spring by the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders, a group based in Washington that represents 20,000 churches nationwide, including 300 in Massachusetts &#8211; is stirring deep divisions among immigrant communities. It faces stiff opposition from a string of advocacy groups, including the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, the Service Employees International Union, and the Brazilian Immigrant Center. To this point, the boycott effort has revolved mainly around word-of-mouth, talk radio, and blog entries by some members of participating churches.</i></p>

	<p>And <a href="http://www.fox21online.com/news/clergy-group-asks-latino-immigrants-boycott-census" rel="nofollow">Wisconsin Public Radio</a> has the same story.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s been the subject of vigorous debate in the Spanish-language press since at least February. The outreach people I talked to most recently were bemoaning the fact that some politicians are telling people not to participate. I would have assumed that they meant the right-wing ones, but the outreach area they work in is heavily Democratic, so who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Ernest</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289497</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Ernest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289497</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s very common in the ACS to see ridiculous margins of error in subpopulations—e.g., foreign born in County X are 42, with a margin of error of 106. What, there are negative 64 people living there? Really?&quot;

That&#039;s not so much a ridiculous margin as it it a ridiculous interpretation of a distribution that we know won&#039;t be quite normal because of the hard minimum. Sure, it may be more precise to state the upper and lower bounds of the error separately rather than as an error range, but I&#039;d be willing to bet that someone has to stuff the data into a table that couldn&#039;t accommodate the additional field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s very common in the <span class="caps">ACS</span> to see ridiculous margins of error in subpopulations&#8212;e.g., foreign born in County X are 42, with a margin of error of 106. What, there are negative 64 people living there? Really?&#8221;</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s not so much a ridiculous margin as it it a ridiculous interpretation of a distribution that we know won&#8217;t be quite normal because of the hard minimum. Sure, it may be more precise to state the upper and lower bounds of the error separately rather than as an error range, but I&#8217;d be willing to bet that someone has to stuff the data into a table that couldn&#8217;t accommodate the additional field.</p>
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		<title>By: Witt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289471</link>
		<dc:creator>Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289471</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t have time to find the link now, because I&#039;m running out the door to work, but there&#039;s a lot of rhetoric in some of the Hispanic press about the need to boycott the census to show Hispanic power and thus create pressure for immigration reform. There&#039;s more to it, but again I&#039;m running. Will try to come back tonight with links.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t have time to find the link now, because I&#8217;m running out the door to work, but there&#8217;s a lot of rhetoric in some of the Hispanic press about the need to boycott the census to show Hispanic power and thus create pressure for immigration reform. There&#8217;s more to it, but again I&#8217;m running. Will try to come back tonight with links.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289469</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289469</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Especially in an environment in which there is boiling rhetoric from both the right and the left against the upcoming 2010 Census.&lt;/i&gt;

and the left? ...really? where?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Especially in an environment in which there is boiling rhetoric from both the right and the left against the upcoming 2010 Census.</i></p>

	<p>and the left? &#8230;really? where?</p>
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		<title>By: Witt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289467</link>
		<dc:creator>Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289467</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I didn&#039;t really mean that you personally didn&#039;t know the difference. When I said I was being humorless, I meant that I saw your post as a funny Facebook exchange between two people who already know the unreliability of the data, and my comment was intended to lay out the un-funny practical reasons for such a result, for the benefit of CT readers who aren&#039;t already familiar with them.

I&#039;m probably a bit touchy on this because I keep talking to enumerators who are running into anti-Census bias. It&#039;s so easy for stuff like this to segue into &quot;Ha HA, isn&#039;t New Jersey corrupt, and by the way you can&#039;t trust Obama&#039;s census either,&quot; and then we see something like what happened with ACORN last year, where voter registration applications &lt;i&gt;that they flagged&lt;/i&gt; as potentially invalid somehow get defined in the US media as &quot;ACORN trying to commit voter fraud.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, I didn&#8217;t really mean that you personally didn&#8217;t know the difference. When I said I was being humorless, I meant that I saw your post as a funny Facebook exchange between two people who already know the unreliability of the data, and my comment was intended to lay out the un-funny practical reasons for such a result, for the benefit of CT readers who aren&#8217;t already familiar with them.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m probably a bit touchy on this because I keep talking to enumerators who are running into anti-Census bias. It&#8217;s so easy for stuff like this to segue into &#8220;Ha HA, isn&#8217;t New Jersey corrupt, and by the way you can&#8217;t trust Obama&#8217;s census either,&#8221; and then we see something like what happened with <span class="caps">ACORN</span> last year, where voter registration applications <i>that they flagged</i> as potentially invalid somehow get defined in the US media as &#8220;ACORN trying to commit voter fraud.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289449</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289449</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Keep in mind that a “2004 Census estimated” number is actually an American Community Survey number. Whereas the Census conducted only every 10 years and is an actual enumeration&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, I know all this. My first thought was that the housing unit estimation method would have led to the error, but then I saw the bit at the top of the entry that the Census had just missed a bunch of people in the enumeration to begin with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Keep in mind that a &#8220;2004 Census estimated&#8221; number is actually an American Community Survey number. Whereas the Census conducted only every 10 years and is an actual enumeration</i></p>

	<p>Yes, I know all this. My first thought was that the housing unit estimation method would have led to the error, but then I saw the bit at the top of the entry that the Census had just missed a bunch of people in the enumeration to begin with.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mollymooly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289435</link>
		<dc:creator>mollymooly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 06:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289435</guid>
		<description>From Wikipedia&#039;s article on  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowi,_Nebraska&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Monowi, Nebraska&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
As of the census of 2000, there was one married couple living in the village. Both were white and above 65, and their median age was 67 years. Their household income was $11,250, or $6,167 per capita. The population density was 9.4 people per square mile (3.7/km²). There were 4 housing units at an average density of 18.8/sq mi (7.4/km²).
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>From Wikipedia&#8217;s article on  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowi,_Nebraska" rel="nofollow">Monowi, Nebraska</a>:<br />
<blockquote><br />
As of the census of 2000, there was one married couple living in the village. Both were white and above 65, and their median age was 67 years. Their household income was $11,250, or $6,167 per capita. The population density was 9.4 people per square mile (3.7/km&#178;). There were 4 housing units at an average density of 18.8/sq mi (7.4/km&#178;).<br />
</blockquote></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Witt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/09/27/rotten-borough/comment-page-1/#comment-289430</link>
		<dc:creator>Witt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13110#comment-289430</guid>
		<description>Keep in mind that a &quot;2004 Census estimated&quot; number is actually an American Community Survey number. Whereas the Census conducted only every 10 years and is an actual enumeration (i.e., they try to count everybody) supplemented with sampling, the ACS is conducted *every* year, but is just a sample. 

It&#039;s very common in the ACS to see ridiculous margins of error in subpopulations -- e.g., foreign born in County X are 42, with a margin of error of 106. What, there are negative 64 people living there? Really?

I know this is a humorless response, but I&#039;ve talked a number of reporters out of relying on such baloney numbers, so I worry when I see things like this repeated uncritically. Especially in an environment in which there is boiling rhetoric from both the right and the left against the upcoming 2010 Census.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Keep in mind that a &#8220;2004 Census estimated&#8221; number is actually an American Community Survey number. Whereas the Census conducted only every 10 years and is an actual enumeration (i.e., they try to count everybody) supplemented with sampling, the <span class="caps">ACS</span> is conducted <strong>every</strong> year, but is just a sample.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s very common in the <span class="caps">ACS</span> to see ridiculous margins of error in subpopulations&#8212;e.g., foreign born in County X are 42, with a margin of error of 106. What, there are negative 64 people living there? Really?</p>

	<p>I know this is a humorless response, but I&#8217;ve talked a number of reporters out of relying on such baloney numbers, so I worry when I see things like this repeated uncritically. Especially in an environment in which there is boiling rhetoric from both the right and the left against the upcoming 2010 Census.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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