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	<title>Comments on: International Law Again, Part II &#8211; Where Do Interests Come From?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-294052</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-294052</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Eric’s claim that states ‘act rationally in their national interest.’ If you ever see anything like this, you really need to stop reading and file the book under fiction. Total unmitigated crap. Next thing you know the idiot will be saying that the US acts rationally and is a democratic republic, which is equivalent to the states act rationally horse manure. This is an oligarchy, it is, was, and always will be an oligarchy. The founding fathers intended that it be an oligarchy, they simply could not conceive of semi human plutocrats that would do all they could to steal every dollar. However this is the rational end of “states act rationally.”&lt;/i&gt;

A little uncollegial in tone, perhaps, but otherwise this seems precisely right to me. &quot;National interest&quot; is a malign fiction. Individuals have interests, often very sharply opposed. To disaggregate these interests and acknowledge the conflicts among them is the first and elementary duty of honest political argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Eric&#8217;s claim that states &#8216;act rationally in their national interest.&#8217; If you ever see anything like this, you really need to stop reading and file the book under fiction. Total unmitigated crap. Next thing you know the idiot will be saying that the US acts rationally and is a democratic republic, which is equivalent to the states act rationally horse manure. This is an oligarchy, it is, was, and always will be an oligarchy. The founding fathers intended that it be an oligarchy, they simply could not conceive of semi human plutocrats that would do all they could to steal every dollar. However this is the rational end of &#8220;states act rationally.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>A little uncollegial in tone, perhaps, but otherwise this seems precisely right to me. &#8220;National interest&#8221; is a malign fiction. Individuals have interests, often very sharply opposed. To disaggregate these interests and acknowledge the conflicts among them is the first and elementary duty of honest political argument.</p>
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		<title>By: evil is evil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293936</link>
		<dc:creator>evil is evil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293936</guid>
		<description>Eric is trying to justify what?  This seems to be written around a table that each person puts some garbage into.  It does not stand on any quantifiable data, but simply consists of the lordly economic statement, &quot;I think.&quot;  I think means &quot;I&#039;ll lie like a rug to try to support my unsupportable position.&quot;  Who and what supports this pastiche of semi rational thought and &quot;I believe&quot;s? Is he a neoCatholic follower of another totally unsupportable economic theory?  Who published this?  The publisher and whomever edited this really need to be called out for supporting  this waste of trees.  If this was peer reviewed, the peers names need to be listed as unable to form a rational thought and definitely not to be trusted in any peer reviewing.

Eric needs to be stripped of all title, possessions and any form of credit and dropped into one of the little instant hells that his inhuman thinking causes.  Something along the lines of the middle class in Argentina that starved to death less than 10 years ago in an economic policy that others that have no soul or humanity prescribed.  This person only has at best a nodding acquaintance with anything resembling reality.

Even reviewing this crap is a waste of time.  Why? What is the purpose of putting this crap out there as if it had any validity?

 Eric’s claim that states ‘act rationally in their national interest.’  If you ever see anything like this, you really need to stop reading and file the book under fiction.  Total unmitigated crap.  Next thing you know the idiot will be saying that the US acts rationally and is a democratic republic, which is equivalent to the states act rationally horse manure.  This is an oligarchy, it is, was, and always will be an oligarchy.  The founding fathers intended that it be an oligarchy, they simply could not conceive of semi human plutocrats that would do all they could to steal every dollar.  However this is the rational end of &quot;states act rationally.&quot;

It is probably too late for Eric to get a job he is qualified for.  Hopefully the depression will prevent him from harming young easily influenced minds in a college or university.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eric is trying to justify what?  This seems to be written around a table that each person puts some garbage into.  It does not stand on any quantifiable data, but simply consists of the lordly economic statement, &#8220;I think.&#8221;  I think means &#8220;I&#8217;ll lie like a rug to try to support my unsupportable position.&#8221;  Who and what supports this pastiche of semi rational thought and &#8220;I believe&#8221;s? Is he a neoCatholic follower of another totally unsupportable economic theory?  Who published this?  The publisher and whomever edited this really need to be called out for supporting  this waste of trees.  If this was peer reviewed, the peers names need to be listed as unable to form a rational thought and definitely not to be trusted in any peer reviewing.</p>

	<p>Eric needs to be stripped of all title, possessions and any form of credit and dropped into one of the little instant hells that his inhuman thinking causes.  Something along the lines of the middle class in Argentina that starved to death less than 10 years ago in an economic policy that others that have no soul or humanity prescribed.  This person only has at best a nodding acquaintance with anything resembling reality.</p>

	<p>Even reviewing this crap is a waste of time.  Why? What is the purpose of putting this crap out there as if it had any validity?</p>

	<p>Eric&#8217;s claim that states &#8216;act rationally in their national interest.&#8217;  If you ever see anything like this, you really need to stop reading and file the book under fiction.  Total unmitigated crap.  Next thing you know the idiot will be saying that the US acts rationally and is a democratic republic, which is equivalent to the states act rationally horse manure.  This is an oligarchy, it is, was, and always will be an oligarchy.  The founding fathers intended that it be an oligarchy, they simply could not conceive of semi human plutocrats that would do all they could to steal every dollar.  However this is the rational end of &#8220;states act rationally.&#8221;</p>

	<p>It is probably too late for Eric to get a job he is qualified for.  Hopefully the depression will prevent him from harming young easily influenced minds in a college or university.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293926</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293926</guid>
		<description>&quot;“if we take strategic considerations into account, there is a game-theoretic rationale for practically anything”&quot;

And perhaps that is a problem with how nations act, not a problem with theoretically describing how they act.  

I think the basic problem in international law theory is that we don&#039;t have a good way of figuring out which strategic considerations are going to be taken into account.  Is Saddam seeking nuclear weapons to ward of Iran, or is he just pretending to?  Do internal political concerns predominate or external ones?  

And the problem is that different countries have different leaders who INDIVIDUALLY may weight strategic concerns differently and who may be opaque to outsiders.  

The problem isn&#039;t that the theory allows for almost any rationale, but that we are studying human decision-makers, who allow for almost any rationale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;&#8220;if we take strategic considerations into account, there is a game-theoretic rationale for practically anything&#8221;&#8221;</p>

	<p>And perhaps that is a problem with how nations act, not a problem with theoretically describing how they act.</p>

	<p>I think the basic problem in international law theory is that we don&#8217;t have a good way of figuring out which strategic considerations are going to be taken into account.  Is Saddam seeking nuclear weapons to ward of Iran, or is he just pretending to?  Do internal political concerns predominate or external ones?</p>

	<p>And the problem is that different countries have different leaders who <span class="caps">INDIVIDUALLY</span> may weight strategic concerns differently and who may be opaque to outsiders.</p>

	<p>The problem isn&#8217;t that the theory allows for almost any rationale, but that we are studying human decision-makers, who allow for almost any rationale.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293921</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293921</guid>
		<description>&quot;trade law reflects state interests in advancing the prosperity of exporters and import-competers,&quot;

Isn&#039;t this rather like saying that international labor and investment agreements reflect state interests in advancing the prosperity of  workers and capitalists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;trade law reflects state interests in advancing the prosperity of exporters and import-competers,&#8221;</p>

	<p>Isn&#8217;t this rather like saying that international labor and investment agreements reflect state interests in advancing the prosperity of  workers and capitalists?</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293916</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293916</guid>
		<description>Phil - it&#039;s just that the &#039;we need to cheer on international law for the sake of shoring it up&#039; claim sounds a little bit like &quot;CLAP HARDER!!!&quot;:http://crookedtimber.org/2003/09/08/think-of-a-wonderful-thought/ to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phil &#8211; it&#8217;s just that the &#8216;we need to cheer on international law for the sake of shoring it up&#8217; claim sounds a little bit like &#8220;CLAP <span class="caps">HARDER</span><img src="!" alt="" border="0<a href="<a" title=""/> /> href=&#8221;http://crookedtimber.org/2003/09/08/think-of-a-wonderful-thought/&#8221; rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221;>http://crookedtimber.org/2003/09/08/think-of-a-wonderful-thought/ to me.</p>
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		<title>By: El Cid</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293915</link>
		<dc:creator>El Cid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293915</guid>
		<description>States are best considered as unitary actors, until such time as one is curious as to why particular states choose particular policies and to portray certain interests as state interests.

These are empirical concerns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>States are best considered as unitary actors, until such time as one is curious as to why particular states choose particular policies and to portray certain interests as state interests.</p>

	<p>These are empirical concerns.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293911</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293911</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Begin with a theory that states act rationally in their national interest&lt;/i&gt;

Because the analogue just didn&#039;t do enough damage in the realm of economics?  It&#039;s well documented that human beings don&#039;t act rationally in a variety of ways and that should be expected to carry over to states whose decisionmaking is dominated by a particular human being (i.e. dictatorships and monarchies), but even aside from those I would expect to see some empirical evidence of the rationality of state action *precede* adopting that as an axiom to found your theory, especially when nonstate organizations of human beings are also well known to participate in a variety of irrational behaviors.

Perhaps we ought to take a recent, concrete example and ask Posner to explain what rational interest of the United States was served by the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  (It is little use to say that the US expected that to serve a rational interest but was mistaken, because that mistake itself was irrational and contradicts Posner&#039;s axiom.)

On the other hand, Bloix&#039;s alternative theory of internal causes explains the Iraq War quite well: the then-President of the US expected the war to increase his power, prestige, and chances of reelection, and he was right in the short term.  This suggests that international law will not effectively influence the actions of a state unless it is respected (either normatively or because of its consequences) by the people or institutions with power *within* that state, with influence on its decisionmaking process.

A theory of international relations founded on false beliefs about the decisionmaking processes of states is as doomed as a theory of economics founded on false beliefs about the decisionmaking processes of firms and consumers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Begin with a theory that states act rationally in their national interest</i></p>

	<p>Because the analogue just didn&#8217;t do enough damage in the realm of economics?  It&#8217;s well documented that human beings don&#8217;t act rationally in a variety of ways and that should be expected to carry over to states whose decisionmaking is dominated by a particular human being (i.e. dictatorships and monarchies), but even aside from those I would expect to see some empirical evidence of the rationality of state action <strong>precede</strong> adopting that as an axiom to found your theory, especially when nonstate organizations of human beings are also well known to participate in a variety of irrational behaviors.</p>

	<p>Perhaps we ought to take a recent, concrete example and ask Posner to explain what rational interest of the United States was served by the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  (It is little use to say that the US expected that to serve a rational interest but was mistaken, because that mistake itself was irrational and contradicts Posner&#8217;s axiom.)</p>

	<p>On the other hand, Bloix&#8217;s alternative theory of internal causes explains the Iraq War quite well: the then-President of the US expected the war to increase his power, prestige, and chances of reelection, and he was right in the short term.  This suggests that international law will not effectively influence the actions of a state unless it is respected (either normatively or because of its consequences) by the people or institutions with power <strong>within</strong> that state, with influence on its decisionmaking process.</p>

	<p>A theory of international relations founded on false beliefs about the decisionmaking processes of states is as doomed as a theory of economics founded on false beliefs about the decisionmaking processes of firms and consumers.</p>
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		<title>By: Antiquated Tory</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293907</link>
		<dc:creator>Antiquated Tory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293907</guid>
		<description>&lt;q&gt;First, consider Eric’s claim that states ‘act rationally in their national interest.’ This sounds nearly as straightforward as, say, the claim that firms act rationally to maximize their corporate profit ... The problem is that this claim is not straightforward at all.&lt;/q&gt;
Indeed, beyond dsquared&#039;s comment on how broadly &quot;maximizing corporate profit&quot; can be defined, there is the question of how often a firm (esp a large corporation) behaves to maximize profit at all. Managerial egos and internal politics are strong driving factors. (In my org, I would say that effectively they are stronger driving forces. I think this is simply because they are very immediate, whereas &#039;maximizing profit&#039; is indeed rather vague and difficult to implement. One executive VP in particular has destroyed millions of dollars in value yet, being an executive VP, has managed to position himself where he suffers no consequences from this. I would imagine that similar circumstances hold true in large state administrations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><q>First, consider Eric&#8217;s claim that states &#8216;act rationally in their national interest.&#8217; This sounds nearly as straightforward as, say, the claim that firms act rationally to maximize their corporate profit &#8230; The problem is that this claim is not straightforward at all.</q><br />
Indeed, beyond dsquared&#8217;s comment on how broadly &#8220;maximizing corporate profit&#8221; can be defined, there is the question of how often a firm (esp a large corporation) behaves to maximize profit at all. Managerial egos and internal politics are strong driving factors. (In my org, I would say that effectively they are stronger driving forces. I think this is simply because they are very immediate, whereas &#8216;maximizing profit&#8217; is indeed rather vague and difficult to implement. One executive VP in particular has destroyed millions of dollars in value yet, being an executive VP, has managed to position himself where he suffers no consequences from this. I would imagine that similar circumstances hold true in large state administrations.)</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293899</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293899</guid>
		<description>A step in the right direction with regard to rational choice theory and international law is Andrew T. Guzman&#039;s How International Law Works: A Rational Choice Theory (2008). An antidote to Posner&#039;s take on international law is Mary Ellen O&#039;Connor&#039;s The Power and Purpose of International Law (2008). By way of undercutting or at least exposing some of the philosophical presuppositions and assumptions of Posner&#039;s work one might look at Allen Buchanan&#039;s Justice, Legitimacy, and Self-Determination:  Moral Foundations for International Law (2004). Posner&#039;s latest book really does not offer anything substantively new beyond the work he earlier co-authored with Jack Goldsmith: The Limits of International Law (2005). Far and away the best critique of that book is Robert Hockett&#039;s review essay, &quot;The Limits of Their World,&quot; 90 Minnesota Law Review (2006): 1720-1790,  available here: http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/hein/Hocket,%20Robert%2090%20Minn.%20L.%20Rev.%201720%202006.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A step in the right direction with regard to rational choice theory and international law is Andrew T. Guzman&#8217;s How International Law Works: A Rational Choice Theory (2008). An antidote to Posner&#8217;s take on international law is Mary Ellen O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s The Power and Purpose of International Law (2008). By way of undercutting or at least exposing some of the philosophical presuppositions and assumptions of Posner&#8217;s work one might look at Allen Buchanan&#8217;s Justice, Legitimacy, and Self-Determination:  Moral Foundations for International Law (2004). Posner&#8217;s latest book really does not offer anything substantively new beyond the work he earlier co-authored with Jack Goldsmith: The Limits of International Law (2005). Far and away the best critique of that book is Robert Hockett&#8217;s review essay, &#8220;The Limits of Their World,&#8221; 90 Minnesota Law Review (2006): 1720-1790,  available here: <a href="http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/hein/Hocket,%20Robert%2090%20Minn.%20L.%20Rev.%201720%202006.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/hein/Hocket,%20Robert%2090%20Minn.%20L.%20Rev.%201720%202006.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293890</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293890</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I understand that some international law scholars are upset at this style of argument, feeling that it has negative normative consequences (if international law is good, we should not be undermining it). I don’t find this particular style of criticism compelling at all – if Eric is right on the substance, he is right, and if he is wrong, he is wrong.&lt;/i&gt;

I think you&#039;re selling normative arguments a bit short there. Drawing the fact/value line isn&#039;t quite that simple when the facts themselves are norms: an economistic interpretation of the law may miss as much as a similar interpretation of the Church. I think your parenthesised argument could be better rendered as &quot;if international law is a good &lt;i&gt;to the extent that it is lawlike&lt;/i&gt;, then we should not be discussing it in terms which make it easier for it to become less lawlike&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I understand that some international law scholars are upset at this style of argument, feeling that it has negative normative consequences (if international law is good, we should not be undermining it). I don&#8217;t find this particular style of criticism compelling at all &#8211; if Eric is right on the substance, he is right, and if he is wrong, he is wrong.</i></p>

	<p>I think you&#8217;re selling normative arguments a bit short there. Drawing the fact/value line isn&#8217;t quite that simple when the facts themselves are norms: an economistic interpretation of the law may miss as much as a similar interpretation of the Church. I think your parenthesised argument could be better rendered as &#8220;if international law is a good <i>to the extent that it is lawlike</i>, then we should not be discussing it in terms which make it easier for it to become less lawlike&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293876</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293876</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Imagine a criminal justice system that is more likely to punish actual criminals than non-criminals, but still punishes some (relative) innocents and lets most criminals get away.&lt;/i&gt;

Yep, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_figure_of_crime&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;got that&lt;/a&gt;. What&#039;s the counterfactual?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Imagine a criminal justice system that is more likely to punish actual criminals than non-criminals, but still punishes some (relative) innocents and lets most criminals get away.</i></p>

	<p>Yep, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_figure_of_crime" rel="nofollow">got that</a>. What&#8217;s the counterfactual?</p>
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		<title>By: Donald A. Coffin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293866</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald A. Coffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293866</guid>
		<description>I especially liked this bit that you quoted from Posner:

&quot;...it seems sensible to assume that trade law reflects state interests in advancing the prosperity of exporters and import-competers...&quot;

There&#039;s a huge assumption here, the same assumption, really, that ulderlay mercantilist thought, that the interests of importers do not matter.  And, yet, in terms of national welfare, that seems a strong assumption, and one that must be justified somehow.  What seems implicit here is the notion that the interests of exporters (must) trump other interests, probably (but again implicitly) because exporters hold more wealth and/or have more political power.  Which alters the rational choice model somewhat, doesn&#039;t it?

But what do I know about models of politics; I&#039;m  an economist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I especially liked this bit that you quoted from Posner:</p>

	<p>&#8220;&#8230;it seems sensible to assume that trade law reflects state interests in advancing the prosperity of exporters and import-competers&#8230;&#8221;</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s a huge assumption here, the same assumption, really, that ulderlay mercantilist thought, that the interests of importers do not matter.  And, yet, in terms of national welfare, that seems a strong assumption, and one that must be justified somehow.  What seems implicit here is the notion that the interests of exporters (must) trump other interests, probably (but again implicitly) because exporters hold more wealth and/or have more political power.  Which alters the rational choice model somewhat, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>

	<p>But what do I know about models of politics; I&#8217;m  an economist.</p>
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		<title>By: Bloix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293829</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293829</guid>
		<description>Not that I have any familiarity with any of the literature  - I don&#039;t - but it seems to me that a state&#039;s international behavior is usually either constrained or actually required by unrelated domestic concerns.   Sometimes the state decision-making mechanisms, even in democracies, don&#039;t permit the preferences of a majority of the populace to be expressed - much less some objectively determinable national self-interest.   Often the populace has only the vaguest understanding of international issues and sees international relations as a stage on which domestic conflicts or even psychological issues can be acted out.  For these reasons states act &quot;irrationally&quot; internationally all the time, when in fact the irrational international behavior can be seen to be in some sense &quot;rational&quot; in terms of domestic needs.  What sense does the Kashmir conflict make?  Or the Cuba embargo? What sense did the Falklands War make for either side?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not that I have any familiarity with any of the literature  &#8211; I don&#8217;t &#8211; but it seems to me that a state&#8217;s international behavior is usually either constrained or actually required by unrelated domestic concerns.   Sometimes the state decision-making mechanisms, even in democracies, don&#8217;t permit the preferences of a majority of the populace to be expressed &#8211; much less some objectively determinable national self-interest.   Often the populace has only the vaguest understanding of international issues and sees international relations as a stage on which domestic conflicts or even psychological issues can be acted out.  For these reasons states act &#8220;irrationally&#8221; internationally all the time, when in fact the irrational international behavior can be seen to be in some sense &#8220;rational&#8221; in terms of domestic needs.  What sense does the Kashmir conflict make?  Or the Cuba embargo? What sense did the Falklands War make for either side?</p>
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		<title>By: Naadir Jeewa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/02/international-law-again-part-ii-what-makes-up-the-national-interest/comment-page-1/#comment-293824</link>
		<dc:creator>Naadir Jeewa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13552#comment-293824</guid>
		<description>Posner&#039;s account of state interests seems to leave out Putnam&#039;s two-level game approach, or at the very least is a reification thereof. Does Putnam get a mention in the book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Posner&#8217;s account of state interests seems to leave out Putnam&#8217;s two-level game approach, or at the very least is a reification thereof. Does Putnam get a mention in the book?</p>
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