Comments on: Whether or not it is good for Europe, it is very bad for Belgium http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:49:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Zeba http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295757 Zeba Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:03:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295757 Having lived in Belgium for the past five years, including the 18 months or so when there was no government, I am not sure that Van Rompuy at the head of Belgium or the head of the EU will make much difference to either entity. Having lived in Belgium for the past five years, including the 18 months or so when there was no government, I am not sure that Van Rompuy at the head of Belgium or the head of the EU will make much difference to either entity.

]]> By: JoB http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295703 JoB Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:44:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295703 Joe, 1. in having no clue on our domestic politics you're very like the average Jan Peeters 2. he has agreed to continue as PM until there's agreement on how to resolve our issue You know, Belgium managed for 175 years, most of which were without Van Rompuy - this is the fourth round of redrawing the state's institutions in the last 30 years, he was only there for the last, least succesful, one. Come on, there's life outside the Eurocratic community, you know. Joe,

1. in having no clue on our domestic politics you’re very like the average Jan Peeters

2. he has agreed to continue as PM until there’s agreement on how to resolve our issue

You know, Belgium managed for 175 years, most of which were without Van Rompuy – this is the fourth round of redrawing the state’s institutions in the last 30 years, he was only there for the last, least succesful, one.

Come on, there’s life outside the Eurocratic community, you know.

]]> By: alex http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295702 alex Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:34:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295702 Belgae? Belgae?

]]> By: Sam Centipedro http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295700 Sam Centipedro Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:46:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295700 Isn't the motto of the European Union "Nunc omnes Belges"? Isn’t the motto of the European Union “Nunc omnes Belges”?

]]> By: Joe http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295699 Joe Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:44:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295699 It's a funny line Van Rompuy's crossing. This sort of puts him in the ex-pat community in his own country. It's an amazing thing how insulated from Belgian politics that community can be. I spent a year in Brussels studying international politics, and yet had almost no impression of the country's domestic politics at all. Same city, yes, but very, very different world (as, again, is NATO, an institution he apparently favors). So good luck to the guy--he'll probably need it. But I can't see how this is anything other than really bad for Belgium. And I wouldn't expect Van Rompuy to be available to perform any pro bono shuttle diplomacy on the domestic front any time soon. It’s a funny line Van Rompuy’s crossing. This sort of puts him in the ex-pat community in his own country. It’s an amazing thing how insulated from Belgian politics that community can be. I spent a year in Brussels studying international politics, and yet had almost no impression of the country’s domestic politics at all. Same city, yes, but very, very different world (as, again, is NATO, an institution he apparently favors).

So good luck to the guy—he’ll probably need it. But I can’t see how this is anything other than really bad for Belgium. And I wouldn’t expect Van Rompuy to be available to perform any pro bono shuttle diplomacy on the domestic front any time soon.

]]> By: JoB http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295679 JoB Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:49:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295679 Chris, it's, amongst another things, a constitutional problem but, yeah, if it ain't in the Anglo-Saxon world it's not real, now is it? Chris, it’s, amongst another things, a constitutional problem but, yeah, if it ain’t in the Anglo-Saxon world it’s not real, now is it?

]]> By: chris y http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295678 chris y Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:29:08 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295678 OTOH, deleting Belgium might be considered a little too radical. OTOH, deleting Belgium might be considered a little too radical.

]]> By: chris y http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295677 chris y Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:28:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295677 This is the "If nobody's noticed yet that nothing's happened, delete it; if anyone cares, they'll resend eventually" approach. Pretty much universally applicable (except perhaps in medicine). This is the “If nobody’s noticed yet that nothing’s happened, delete it; if anyone cares, they’ll resend eventually” approach. Pretty much universally applicable (except perhaps in medicine).

]]> By: Chris Bertram http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295675 Chris Bertram Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:20:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295675 In my experience of management, postponing discussion of problems really does make lots of them go away, since people find ways of coping pending resolution. In my experience of management, postponing discussion of problems really does make lots of them go away, since people find ways of coping pending resolution.

]]> By: JoB http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295674 JoB Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:02:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295674 And anyway, it's good for Holland as they get another year or so to cure themselves of the own political diseases. And anyway, it’s good for Holland as they get another year or so to cure themselves of the own political diseases.

]]> By: JoB http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295673 JoB Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:56:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295673 For once I may be the closest to an expert here ;-) Bear in mind that the guy was only in office for a year or so. He did not solve any of the problems but succeeded in postponing the discussion of them. This indeed was a very, very welcome strategy. But not one that makes the problems go away. He apparantly is staying until he gets some kind of roadmap for the negotiations. Europe is not at all like Belgium by the way. Belgium is falling apart - Europe is coming together. He would have been more experienced in the context of the Israël, I guess. & no, it's not that bad; just politics, no shooting, no looting. That being said: Herman is an ethical conservative to the bone. His crypto-mysticism, as per his haiku-loving, is telling. Luckily these are not responsibilities of the EU yet, & I'm sure he'll agree, knowing full well that he's out of date ethically but refusing to let it go. For once I may be the closest to an expert here ;-)

Bear in mind that the guy was only in office for a year or so. He did not solve any of the problems but succeeded in postponing the discussion of them. This indeed was a very, very welcome strategy. But not one that makes the problems go away. He apparantly is staying until he gets some kind of roadmap for the negotiations.

Europe is not at all like Belgium by the way. Belgium is falling apart – Europe is coming together. He would have been more experienced in the context of the Israël, I guess. & no, it’s not that bad; just politics, no shooting, no looting.

That being said: Herman is an ethical conservative to the bone. His crypto-mysticism, as per his haiku-loving, is telling. Luckily these are not responsibilities of the EU yet, & I’m sure he’ll agree, knowing full well that he’s out of date ethically but refusing to let it go.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295669 John Quiggin Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:26:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295669 There's a well-known Chou En-Lai story with a similar burden. But my favorite is probably apocryphal, about a debate on investing the funds of an Oxford College. After the economics professor argued that historical experience proved the benefits of a balanced portfolio, the history professor demurred, noting that "the last 400 years have been quite exceptional". There’s a well-known Chou En-Lai story with a similar burden. But my favorite is probably apocryphal, about a debate on investing the funds of an Oxford College. After the economics professor argued that historical experience proved the benefits of a balanced portfolio, the history professor demurred, noting that “the last 400 years have been quite exceptional”.

]]> By: chris y http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295666 chris y Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:46:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295666 For some values of "the long haul". Belgium has been there since the Treaty of Vienna and seems to me only to have hit serious internal problems in the last generation. The Treaty of Paris, which established the ECSC, was signed in the year I was born. So, a pretty short haul in the greater scheme of things. When the EU is 200 years old, we'll see about its track record. For some values of “the long haul”. Belgium has been there since the Treaty of Vienna and seems to me only to have hit serious internal problems in the last generation. The Treaty of Paris, which established the ECSC, was signed in the year I was born. So, a pretty short haul in the greater scheme of things. When the EU is 200 years old, we’ll see about its track record.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295652 John Quiggin Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:08:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295652 On the optimistic side, there are lots of ways in which the EU looks like Belgium writ large, and yet, over the long haul, it has gone from strength to strength, with the creation of the presidency being another step in this process. Perhaps Belgium can manage something similar - not sure how, though. On the optimistic side, there are lots of ways in which the EU looks like Belgium writ large, and yet, over the long haul, it has gone from strength to strength, with the creation of the presidency being another step in this process. Perhaps Belgium can manage something similar – not sure how, though.

]]> By: P O'Neill http://crookedtimber.org/2009/11/19/whether-or-not-it-is-good-for-europe-it-is-very-bad-for-belgium/comment-page-1/#comment-295646 P O'Neill Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:03:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=13771#comment-295646 It seems that we shift from the presence of the EU institutions being a destabilizing factor in Belgian politics as your earlier posts explained through its impact on the linguistic balance to the very specific disruption of key personnel being tapped for the new position. It seems that we shift from the presence of the EU institutions being a destabilizing factor in Belgian politics as your earlier posts explained through its impact on the linguistic balance to the very specific disruption of key personnel being tapped for the new position.

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