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	<title>Comments on: Notes on a Class</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299273</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299273</guid>
		<description>How were you able to reach an overload without getting paid (or did you get paid)?  When I&#039;ve tried to do this, I&#039;ve been told (a) I can&#039;t teach an overload for budgetary reasons and (b) I can&#039;t teach it without pay for some other (maybe legal?) reasons.  I&#039;ve found some creative work-arounds, but I&#039;m curious to know how you managed to make this happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How were you able to reach an overload without getting paid (or did you get paid)?  When I&#8217;ve tried to do this, I&#8217;ve been told (a) I can&#8217;t teach an overload for budgetary reasons and (b) I can&#8217;t teach it without pay for some other (maybe legal?) reasons.  I&#8217;ve found some creative work-arounds, but I&#8217;m curious to know how you managed to make this happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299218</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299218</guid>
		<description>I too love teaching undergrad seminars with 15-20 students but am unlikely to offer them again at the lower level; sadly I have found that younger students do not read much (or well, despite a list of items to look for) and are generally too shy to discuss the material in class. They lack any outside experience to make sense out of what they are reading, haven&#039;t had enough introductory classes to guide them, and seemed too intellectually under-developed to actually enjoy the course. Frustratingly I had to return to a lecture format and my own enjoyment steadily diminished over the 15 weeks. I will continue to offer such classes for seniors, but only after they have had lots of preparation! It should be noted that I am at a small, regional school with 100% acceptance rate...most of our students are the first generation to go to college and our local high schools may not be preparing them adequately; some students struggle quite a bit, but many are very bright and creative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I too love teaching undergrad seminars with 15-20 students but am unlikely to offer them again at the lower level; sadly I have found that younger students do not read much (or well, despite a list of items to look for) and are generally too shy to discuss the material in class. They lack any outside experience to make sense out of what they are reading, haven&#8217;t had enough introductory classes to guide them, and seemed too intellectually under-developed to actually enjoy the course. Frustratingly I had to return to a lecture format and my own enjoyment steadily diminished over the 15 weeks. I will continue to offer such classes for seniors, but only after they have had lots of preparation! It should be noted that I am at a small, regional school with 100% acceptance rate&#8230;most of our students are the first generation to go to college and our local high schools may not be preparing them adequately; some students struggle quite a bit, but many are very bright and creative!</p>
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		<title>By: zic</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299213</link>
		<dc:creator>zic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299213</guid>
		<description>I apologize if this is a thread hi-jack, but you&#039;ve reminded me of one of the best educational experiences my children had in their early years. My oldest son&#039;s second and third grade were the same children, same teacher for the two years. I believe the term for this is looping. (It would be a disaster for a bad student/teacher match, I imagine.)

Best thing that happened to him in school.

And as parents, it was good for us; we formed a much closer bond in school life and cohesive voice in school politics.

Both instances indicate, to me, that the relationships of education are undervalued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I apologize if this is a thread hi-jack, but you&#8217;ve reminded me of one of the best educational experiences my children had in their early years. My oldest son&#8217;s second and third grade were the same children, same teacher for the two years. I believe the term for this is looping. (It would be a disaster for a bad student/teacher match, I imagine.)</p>

	<p>Best thing that happened to him in school.</p>

	<p>And as parents, it was good for us; we formed a much closer bond in school life and cohesive voice in school politics.</p>

	<p>Both instances indicate, to me, that the relationships of education are undervalued.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299173</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299173</guid>
		<description>Harry, this post makes me  jealous.   You should offer a fig for majors sometime.  I would have gotten a lot out having a group of phil majors that I trusted and could have decent conversations with.  In too many of my philosophy classes, even upper div, the chatty students were just the obnoxious ones or the ones who wanted to be spoon fed material from the lectures that they didn&#039;t attend and the readings they didn&#039;t read.  To be honest, it was quite boring.   I would have learned so much more with a program like the one you taught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Harry, this post makes me  jealous.   You should offer a fig for majors sometime.  I would have gotten a lot out having a group of phil majors that I trusted and could have decent conversations with.  In too many of my philosophy classes, even upper div, the chatty students were just the obnoxious ones or the ones who wanted to be spoon fed material from the lectures that they didn&#8217;t attend and the readings they didn&#8217;t read.  To be honest, it was quite boring.   I would have learned so much more with a program like the one you taught.</p>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299165</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299165</guid>
		<description>What a great semester!  But one reason you haven&#039;t had this experience before is because you are teaching at an RI place.  I teach at a SLAC and one of the huge pleasures of it is getting a student in freshman comp who then takes other classes from you, allowing you to see their development.  You can actually see them grow up, which is nice.  The cohort thing sounds very nice as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What a great semester!  But one reason you haven&#8217;t had this experience before is because you are teaching at an RI place.  I teach at a <span class="caps">SLAC</span> and one of the huge pleasures of it is getting a student in freshman comp who then takes other classes from you, allowing you to see their development.  You can actually see them grow up, which is nice.  The cohort thing sounds very nice as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299107</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299107</guid>
		<description>Well, the truth is that &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; found the way around it. Those who&#039;ve talked to me about it (which is most of them) are very aware that this has been a quite unusual experience, which their friends envy. Some are unduly grateful, not quite understanding that I, too, got a great deal of benefit from it.

So, I agree with you salient, about that, and will follow up the references. I think that in context it is a rather small criticism of the book; something you&#039;d want to pay a good deal of attention to in forging a reform agenda, but what the book does for students is explains to them why their experience is the way that it is. I guess I need to do a full post on the book (which I&#039;ve been intending to do since I read it 3 years ago).  I was surprised by some of the effects on the students (which I shouldn&#039;t have been). For example, most of them have already fulfilled their ethnic studies requirement, and most have been irritated by it: reading OUC explained the point of the ethnic studies requirement to them (nobody had done that before) and made them &lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; irritated by that part of their experience because they thought it was well motivated.
Anyway, more on that later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, the truth is that <i>they</i> found the way around it. Those who&#8217;ve talked to me about it (which is most of them) are very aware that this has been a quite unusual experience, which their friends envy. Some are unduly grateful, not quite understanding that I, too, got a great deal of benefit from it.</p>

	<p>So, I agree with you salient, about that, and will follow up the references. I think that in context it is a rather small criticism of the book; something you&#8217;d want to pay a good deal of attention to in forging a reform agenda, but what the book does for students is explains to them why their experience is the way that it is. I guess I need to do a full post on the book (which I&#8217;ve been intending to do since I read it 3 years ago).  I was surprised by some of the effects on the students (which I shouldn&#8217;t have been). For example, most of them have already fulfilled their ethnic studies requirement, and most have been irritated by it: reading <span class="caps">OUC</span> explained the point of the ethnic studies requirement to them (nobody had done that before) and made them <i>less</i> irritated by that part of their experience because they thought it was well motivated.<br />
Anyway, more on that later.</p>
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		<title>By: nefkowitz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299106</link>
		<dc:creator>nefkowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299106</guid>
		<description>Reading blog posts like this gets me all misty-eyed. Tarts aside, a mindful educator is a beautiful thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Reading blog posts like this gets me all misty-eyed. Tarts aside, a mindful educator is a beautiful thing.</p>
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		<title>By: AnnMaria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299094</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnMaria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299094</guid>
		<description>You made a point I have always thought - that one semester with 20 or up to 80 people is not nearly enough to have any kind of real connection. Now that an extraordinary percentage of courses are taught by part-time faculty this is going to be the norm for both faculty and students. This is not at all the experience I had as an undergraduate and I do see the current system as short-changing everyone. 

Good for you for finding a way around it, at least for some people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You made a point I have always thought &#8211; that one semester with 20 or up to 80 people is not nearly enough to have any kind of real connection. Now that an extraordinary percentage of courses are taught by part-time faculty this is going to be the norm for both faculty and students. This is not at all the experience I had as an undergraduate and I do see the current system as short-changing everyone.</p>

	<p>Good for you for finding a way around it, at least for some people.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299082</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299082</guid>
		<description>I would be full of love for Bok&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Underachieving Colleges&lt;/i&gt; if he were only a little more self-aware, a little more self-reflective. One can learn a great deal about how Bok happened to develop his own critical thinking skills by reading Bok&#039;s book, and that is significantly to the book&#039;s detriment. (I suspect this weakness may be opaque to many of your students, given the distance from their majors to the natural sciences, but would welcome the news that my suspicion is unfair &amp; incorrect.)

I guess I can afford to be a little less cryptic/guarded about the specific fault: Bok demonstrates a suboptimal grasp of the roles numeracy^1^ and scientific inquiry can play in developing one&#039;s critical mind. Let me humbly recommend following up his book with a reading on numeracy -- or at least the essay &quot;Quantitative Literacy: Everybody&#039;s Orphan&quot; by Bernie Madison or maybe the interview &quot;Numeracy, Mathematics, and General Education&quot; with Peter Ewell^2^ -- to provide a meaningful counterbalance. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.maa.org/ql/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MAA publications&lt;/a&gt; are good reads and many of their books are available as free PDF downloads (at that link). I may require my math education students to read this next semester, but extending beyond that, it seems to me that someone majoring in &quot;psych, elementary ed, human development and family studies, communication, [or] nursing&quot; would benefit greatly from some attentive consideration of numeracy/innumeracy (ok, maybe not nursing). I don&#039;t know how well it would fit in with &quot;Contemporary Moral Issues&quot; if Bok&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Underachieving Colleges&lt;/i&gt; wasn&#039;t part of the reading, but given that inclusion, numeracy seems on-topic. I mean, most numeracy folks seem to talk about, and treat in the literature, quantitative literacy quite explicitly as a topic in social justice (unless they&#039;re talking about pedagogical best-practices nuts and bolts, of course).

Bok&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Universities in the Marketplace&lt;/i&gt; was a good read, and is exactly the sort of book I would have wanted to read as a college freshman to whom the workings of university are opaque; it would be topical at UW given the Reebok / WRC Codes of Conduct controversy of a few years ago, but I don&#039;t know if it fits into the course topics. Still, mentioned as a casual aside...

^1^To a first approximation, QL is equivalent to numeracy; to be unnecessarily more subtle in distinguishing, people who use the term QL tend to more explicitly sweep up statistical literacy as a component; &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; people who use the term numeracy place more emphasis on concrete measurement and tool use. I use the terms completely interchangeably and have never been called on it in conversation, for whatever that&#039;s worth.

^2^Wild unsubstantiated conjecture: students aren&#039;t assigned to read enough interviews or respond critically to interviews (both interviewee and interviewer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would be full of love for Bok&#8217;s <i>Underachieving Colleges</i> if he were only a little more self-aware, a little more self-reflective. One can learn a great deal about how Bok happened to develop his own critical thinking skills by reading Bok&#8217;s book, and that is significantly to the book&#8217;s detriment. (I suspect this weakness may be opaque to many of your students, given the distance from their majors to the natural sciences, but would welcome the news that my suspicion is unfair &#038; incorrect.)</p>

	<p>I guess I can afford to be a little less cryptic/guarded about the specific fault: Bok demonstrates a suboptimal grasp of the roles numeracy<sup>1</sup> and scientific inquiry can play in developing one&#8217;s critical mind. Let me humbly recommend following up his book with a reading on numeracy&#8212;or at least the essay &#8220;Quantitative Literacy: Everybody&#8217;s Orphan&#8221; by Bernie Madison or maybe the interview &#8220;Numeracy, Mathematics, and General Education&#8221; with Peter Ewell<sup>2</sup>&#8212;to provide a meaningful counterbalance. The <a href="http://www.maa.org/ql/" rel="nofollow"><span class="caps">MAA</span> publications</a> are good reads and many of their books are available as free <span class="caps">PDF</span> downloads (at that link). I may require my math education students to read this next semester, but extending beyond that, it seems to me that someone majoring in &#8220;psych, elementary ed, human development and family studies, communication, [or] nursing&#8221; would benefit greatly from some attentive consideration of numeracy/innumeracy (ok, maybe not nursing). I don&#8217;t know how well it would fit in with &#8220;Contemporary Moral Issues&#8221; if Bok&#8217;s <i>Underachieving Colleges</i> wasn&#8217;t part of the reading, but given that inclusion, numeracy seems on-topic. I mean, most numeracy folks seem to talk about, and treat in the literature, quantitative literacy quite explicitly as a topic in social justice (unless they&#8217;re talking about pedagogical best-practices nuts and bolts, of course).</p>

	<p>Bok&#8217;s <i>Universities in the Marketplace</i> was a good read, and is exactly the sort of book I would have wanted to read as a college freshman to whom the workings of university are opaque; it would be topical at UW given the Reebok / <span class="caps">WRC </span>Codes of Conduct controversy of a few years ago, but I don&#8217;t know if it fits into the course topics. Still, mentioned as a casual aside&#8230;</p>

	<p><sup>1</sup>To a first approximation, QL is equivalent to numeracy; to be unnecessarily more subtle in distinguishing, people who use the term QL tend to more explicitly sweep up statistical literacy as a component; <i>some</i> people who use the term numeracy place more emphasis on concrete measurement and tool use. I use the terms completely interchangeably and have never been called on it in conversation, for whatever that&#8217;s worth.</p>

	<p><sup>2</sup>Wild unsubstantiated conjecture: students aren&#8217;t assigned to read enough interviews or respond critically to interviews (both interviewee and interviewer).</p>
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		<title>By: kid bitzer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2009/12/18/notes-on-a-class/comment-page-1/#comment-299081</link>
		<dc:creator>kid bitzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14155#comment-299081</guid>
		<description>that all sounds brilliant, except the bakewell tart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>that all sounds brilliant, except the bakewell tart.</p>
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