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	<title>Comments on: History is the Devil&#8217;s Scripture</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Gerald Fnord</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301831</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald Fnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301831</guid>
		<description>First: 41. Omega Centauri 01.17.10 at 3:45 am:  Marion Gordon Robertson  was born rich and got richer; he could fund the Club all by himself.  He might not even &lt;i&gt;need&lt;/i&gt; to do: the sale of his network to ABC (which helped make him much, much, much richer) included a contractual obligation that ABC Family continue broadcasting the &#039;700 Club&#039;, so that it doesn&#039;t need _any_ audience-based revenue to continue...capitalist _love_ the idea that everyone else should be exposed to the vicissitudes of the Most Holy Market.

Main:
Of particular interest is the idea that nations entire can be cursed by the actions of a a few many years ago.  This is of course fundamental (sorry) to Robertson&#039;s world-view, it being the basis of Original Sin, the Covenant of Israel (without even the slightly more credible-making midrash saying that all future Israelite souls were there, and agreed), and the ignominy due Israel due to one crowd in Jerusalem supposedly saying, &#039;Let this blood be on our heads,&#039; awhile back.

Since one of the good points of capitalist ideology (at least compared to what came before) is the idea that your ancestors&#039; deeds should not hold you back  (beyond the &#039;natural&#039; inequities induced by the State-backed transfer of assets through gift or inheritance), I&#039;d say that there could easily be a lot of American, conservative, Christians who might agree with:
1.) The lwa are at least demons, and Bondye the Devil.
2.) Those who made the pact were cursed by it.
3.) This can&#039;t be blamed for what&#039;s happening now.
Even as (I would guess) most of those reading this page would (like me, and ALL right-thinking people i.m.arrogant.o.) find both fundamentalist Christianity and far-right Capitalist ideology...uhhh...&#039;at least somewhat in error&#039;..., it is important that we remember that they are not in lock-step---another example:  I&#039;d dare say that most executives and managers are in favour of abortion rights, as least to the extent that it makes the labour of their female employees more dependable, and cheaper (at least as long as they&#039;re explicitly forbidden firing them for getting pregnant).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>First: 41. Omega Centauri 01.17.10 at 3:45 am:  Marion Gordon Robertson  was born rich and got richer; he could fund the Club all by himself.  He might not even <i>need</i> to do: the sale of his network to <span class="caps">ABC </span>(which helped make him much, much, much richer) included a contractual obligation that <span class="caps">ABC </span>Family continue broadcasting the &#8216;700 Club&#8217;, so that it doesn&#8217;t need <em>any</em> audience-based revenue to continue&#8230;capitalist <em>love</em> the idea that everyone else should be exposed to the vicissitudes of the Most Holy Market.</p>

	<p>Main:<br />
Of particular interest is the idea that nations entire can be cursed by the actions of a a few many years ago.  This is of course fundamental (sorry) to Robertson&#8217;s world-view, it being the basis of Original Sin, the Covenant of Israel (without even the slightly more credible-making midrash saying that all future Israelite souls were there, and agreed), and the ignominy due Israel due to one crowd in Jerusalem supposedly saying, &#8216;Let this blood be on our heads,&#8217; awhile back.</p>

	<p>Since one of the good points of capitalist ideology (at least compared to what came before) is the idea that your ancestors&#8217; deeds should not hold you back  (beyond the &#8216;natural&#8217; inequities induced by the State-backed transfer of assets through gift or inheritance), I&#8217;d say that there could easily be a lot of American, conservative, Christians who might agree with:<br />
1.) The lwa are at least demons, and Bondye the Devil.<br />
2.) Those who made the pact were cursed by it.<br />
3.) This can&#8217;t be blamed for what&#8217;s happening now.<br />
Even as (I would guess) most of those reading this page would (like me, and <span class="caps">ALL</span> right-thinking people i.m.arrogant.o.) find both fundamentalist Christianity and far-right Capitalist ideology&#8230;uhhh&#8230;&#8217;at least somewhat in error&#8217;&#8230;, it is important that we remember that they are not in lock-step&#8212;-another example:  I&#8217;d dare say that most executives and managers are in favour of abortion rights, as least to the extent that it makes the labour of their female employees more dependable, and cheaper (at least as long as they&#8217;re explicitly forbidden firing them for getting pregnant).</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301817</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301817</guid>
		<description>OK then, if you say &#039;very few&#039; you are saying something of a frequency in a reference class imho whereas you take it to say something about the absolute number (or rather the absolute number compared to the absolute numbers that are otherwise involved when people use &#039;very few&#039;); out of the reference class of Christians very few are Robertsonians imho (i.e. the frequency is low), whereas a couple of million never is very few in your book (&#039;very few&#039; being reserved for couple of individuals or so). So no, coming across a Christian does not really give lots of information as to Robertsonian attitudes. But yes, coming across something with Robertsonian attitudes gives quasi-certain information on the Christianity of the individual with such attitudes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK then, if you say &#8216;very few&#8217; you are saying something of a frequency in a reference class imho whereas you take it to say something about the absolute number (or rather the absolute number compared to the absolute numbers that are otherwise involved when people use &#8216;very few&#8217;); out of the reference class of Christians very few are Robertsonians imho (i.e. the frequency is low), whereas a couple of million never is very few in your book (&#8216;very few&#8217; being reserved for couple of individuals or so). So no, coming across a Christian does not really give lots of information as to Robertsonian attitudes. But yes, coming across something with Robertsonian attitudes gives quasi-certain information on the Christianity of the individual with such attitudes.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301815</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301815</guid>
		<description>JoB, clearly you have a quite different view on how to apply the principle of charity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JoB, clearly you have a quite different view on how to apply the principle of charity.</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301812</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301812</guid>
		<description>Probability is not a number?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Probability is not a number?</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301811</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301811</guid>
		<description>52: I apply the principle of charity and take claims about numbers to be, well, about numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>52: I apply the principle of charity and take claims about numbers to be, well, about numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Augustine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301810</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Augustine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301810</guid>
		<description>57-Both stances being motivated by bigoted, superstition-directed ignorance, where&#039;s the &quot;gap&quot;? The distances, in pages, between one Bible passage and another...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>57-Both stances being motivated by bigoted, superstition-directed ignorance, where&#8217;s the &#8220;gap&#8221;? The distances, in pages, between one Bible passage and another&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301808</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301808</guid>
		<description>55- being unsympathetic to both, there is quite a gap between opposing gay marriage and saying that Haïtians deserve an earthquake because of their pact with the devil ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>55- being unsympathetic to both, there is quite a gap between opposing gay marriage and saying that Ha&#239;tians deserve an earthquake because of their pact with the devil &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Davis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301804</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 05:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301804</guid>
		<description>Counter-counterpoint:

http://deiberthaiti.blogspot.com/2008/04/michael-deibert-responds-to-peter.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Counter-counterpoint:</p>

	<p><a href="http://deiberthaiti.blogspot.com/2008/04/michael-deibert-responds-to-peter.html" rel="nofollow">http://deiberthaiti.blogspot.com/2008/04/michael-deibert-responds-to-peter.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steven Augustine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301797</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Augustine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301797</guid>
		<description>&quot;50- anyway, you can’t with any relevant probability attribute Robertsonian attitudes to Christian people...&quot;


Which is why we have Gay marriage in 50 States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;50- anyway, you can&#8217;t with any relevant probability attribute Robertsonian attitudes to Christian people&#8230;&#8221;</p>


	<p>Which is why we have Gay marriage in 50 States.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Augustine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301796</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Augustine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301796</guid>
		<description>Counterpoint:

http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/haiti-aristide-lavalas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Counterpoint:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/haiti-aristide-lavalas" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/08/haiti-aristide-lavalas</a></p>
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		<title>By: Davis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301787</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301787</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well of course Aristide wasn’t universally popular anymore by the time the coup overthrew him.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Based on my experiences in Haiti, Aristide&#039;s habit of using the national police and &lt;i&gt;chimères&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt; (gangs) against his perceived political enemies was far more responsible for his unpopularity than were his policies.  He tried to use them to shut down the local organization I worked with because it was becoming too popular with the locals; the only reason it survived is because the locals fought back.

As far as I&#039;m concerned, this lingering support for Aristide among my liberal compatriots is a major blind spot.  I&#039;ve seen the useless plazas he built to aggrandize himself, in towns where the money could have been used to provide clean water.  I&#039;ve met people who suffered at the hands of his gangs, and I&#039;ve heard stories of his corruption from people in a position to know.  I think the only argument in favor of keeping him in power was that he was indeed elected; but Haiti is a shining example of how a dysfunctional society precludes a working democracy.  (In Haiti hardly anyone bothers to vote, and those who do are freely bought with money and food, or coerced with violence.)&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Well of course Aristide wasn&#8217;t universally popular anymore by the time the coup overthrew him.</blockquote></p>

	<p>Based on my experiences in Haiti, Aristide&#8217;s habit of using the national police and <i>chim&#232;res</i><i> (gangs) against his perceived political enemies was far more responsible for his unpopularity than were his policies.  He tried to use them to shut down the local organization I worked with because it was becoming too popular with the locals; the only reason it survived is because the locals fought back.</i></p>

	<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, this lingering support for Aristide among my liberal compatriots is a major blind spot.  I&#8217;ve seen the useless plazas he built to aggrandize himself, in towns where the money could have been used to provide clean water.  I&#8217;ve met people who suffered at the hands of his gangs, and I&#8217;ve heard stories of his corruption from people in a position to know.  I think the only argument in favor of keeping him in power was that he was indeed elected; but Haiti is a shining example of how a dysfunctional society precludes a working democracy.  (In Haiti hardly anyone bothers to vote, and those who do are freely bought with money and food, or coerced with violence.)</p>
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		<title>By: JoB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301785</link>
		<dc:creator>JoB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301785</guid>
		<description>50- anyway, you can&#039;t with any relevant probability attribute Robertsonian attitudes to Christian people (along the same lines as you can&#039;t attribute terrorism to muslims); which is what &#039;very few Christians&#039; was meant to convey I guess (but you can have the niceties and eat them too)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>50- anyway, you can&#8217;t with any relevant probability attribute Robertsonian attitudes to Christian people (along the same lines as you can&#8217;t attribute terrorism to muslims); which is what &#8216;very few Christians&#8217; was meant to convey I guess (but you can have the niceties and eat them too)</p>
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		<title>By: a.y.mous</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-2/#comment-301783</link>
		<dc:creator>a.y.mous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301783</guid>
		<description>Far too many alphabets and much too few numbers. I&#039;m confused. Can&#039;t you just tabulate? So, tell me who should get the credit for all this?

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

http://pbh3.tumblr.com/post/268016579/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Far too many alphabets and much too few numbers. I&#8217;m confused. Can&#8217;t you just tabulate? So, tell me who should get the credit for all this?</p>

	<p><a href="http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html" rel="nofollow">http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html</a></p>

	<p><a href="http://pbh3.tumblr.com/post/268016579/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible" rel="nofollow">http://pbh3.tumblr.com/post/268016579/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible</a></p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-1/#comment-301780</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301780</guid>
		<description>46: &quot;A small proportion of Xs are Y&quot; ≠ &quot;very few Xs are Y&quot;. A small proportion of people in the world are male Chinese, but there are lots of male Chinese. So the fact (if it is a fact) that Catholics non-Robertsonians outnumber Robertsonians that very few Christians are Robertsonians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>46: &#8220;A small proportion of Xs are Y&#8221; &#8800; &#8220;very few Xs are Y&#8221;. A small proportion of people in the world are male Chinese, but there are lots of male Chinese. So the fact (if it is a fact) that Catholics non-Robertsonians outnumber Robertsonians that very few Christians are Robertsonians.</p>
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		<title>By: rm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/15/history-is-the-devils-scripture/comment-page-1/#comment-301777</link>
		<dc:creator>rm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14433#comment-301777</guid>
		<description>Everyone should read the article Christian H. linked to (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/517494/what_haiti_is_owed&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, also). For an example of one of the quieter disasters rich nations have forced on Haiti, read the 7th paragraph on the rice tariffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Everyone should read the article Christian H. linked to (<a href="http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/517494/what_haiti_is_owed" rel="nofollow">here</a>, also). For an example of one of the quieter disasters rich nations have forced on Haiti, read the 7th paragraph on the rice tariffs.</p>
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