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	<title>Comments on: Civil unions and straight marriage</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Frances</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302604</link>
		<dc:creator>Frances</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302604</guid>
		<description>Trans gender persons were required to divorce before applying for a gender recognition certificate specifically in order to avoid creating a same sex marriage.  Otherwise the bishops in the House of Lords would have kicked up a fuss when the legislation went through.  No separation of church and state in godless UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Trans gender persons were required to divorce before applying for a gender recognition certificate specifically in order to avoid creating a same sex marriage.  Otherwise the bishops in the House of Lords would have kicked up a fuss when the legislation went through.  No separation of church and state in godless UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth Rees</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302593</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth Rees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302593</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Seems like a lot of bother&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a (deliberate) consequence of the UK&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gender Recognition Act 2004&lt;/a&gt;. If you&#039;re married, you can&#039;t legally change gender: you have to divorce first. Then, if you actually wanted to stay married in the first place, you can contract a civil partnership, but you have to wait for the Gender Recognition Certificate since civil partnership only applies to same-sex couples.

Extending marriage to same-sex couples would have avoided this little piece of absurdity: after all, it&#039;s not like transsexuals don&#039;t have enough bureaucratic hoops to jump through already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Seems like a lot of bother</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s a (deliberate) consequence of the UK&#8217;s <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004" rel="nofollow">Gender Recognition Act 2004</a>. If you&#8217;re married, you can&#8217;t legally change gender: you have to divorce first. Then, if you actually wanted to stay married in the first place, you can contract a civil partnership, but you have to wait for the Gender Recognition Certificate since civil partnership only applies to same-sex couples.</p>

	<p>Extending marriage to same-sex couples would have avoided this little piece of absurdity: after all, it&#8217;s not like transsexuals don&#8217;t have enough bureaucratic hoops to jump through already.</p>
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		<title>By: KévinT</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302592</link>
		<dc:creator>KévinT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302592</guid>
		<description>I think Henry is basing his analysis on a false premise:
Marriage in France is &lt;i&gt; already a civil union&lt;/i&gt;.
The main differences between marriage the PACS are:
- the PACS can be between same-sex people.
- the PACS is easier, and cheaper, to get out of.

Of course, people can have a religious marriage on top of the civil marriage but it has no standing in the law.
And most (Christian) people who want some kind of religious ceremony go for a simple blessing ceremony, not the full-fledged marriage sacrament.

I must confess that I have a hard time understanding the US conception of marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think Henry is basing his analysis on a false premise:<br />
Marriage in France is <i> already a civil union</i>.<br />
The main differences between marriage the <span class="caps">PACS</span> are: &#8211; the <span class="caps">PACS</span> can be between same-sex people. &#8211; the <span class="caps">PACS</span> is easier, and cheaper, to get out of.</p>

	<p>Of course, people can have a religious marriage on top of the civil marriage but it has no standing in the law.<br />
And most (Christian) people who want some kind of religious ceremony go for a simple blessing ceremony, not the full-fledged marriage sacrament.</p>

	<p>I must confess that I have a hard time understanding the US conception of marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302591</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302591</guid>
		<description>@32 - blimey. Seems like a lot of bother to end up back where you started, but then, horses for courses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@32 &#8211; blimey. Seems like a lot of bother to end up back where you started, but then, horses for courses.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302590</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302590</guid>
		<description>Phil: it&#039;s more confusing than that: marriage ceremonies are either Anglican, religious (other), or secular (no religious content allowed). In addition to that, there are civil partnerships, which are subject to the secular rules of civil marriages, carried out in a registry office or other approved place. Civil partnerships are only for same-sex couples and marriages only for different-sex couples.

If you&#039;re Anglican you don&#039;t have to involve the registry office. If you&#039;re (e.g.) Catholic, you hire the registrar to turn up with the book to sign at your wedding ceremony.

I know a couple who were married, one of whom changed gender, divorced, and rejoined as a civil partnership with their original spouse. I&#039;m not sure whether they were required to do that to remain married but I believe so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phil: it&#8217;s more confusing than that: marriage ceremonies are either Anglican, religious (other), or secular (no religious content allowed). In addition to that, there are civil partnerships, which are subject to the secular rules of civil marriages, carried out in a registry office or other approved place. Civil partnerships are only for same-sex couples and marriages only for different-sex couples.</p>

	<p>If you&#8217;re Anglican you don&#8217;t have to involve the registry office. If you&#8217;re (e.g.) Catholic, you hire the registrar to turn up with the book to sign at your wedding ceremony.</p>

	<p>I know a couple who were married, one of whom changed gender, divorced, and rejoined as a civil partnership with their original spouse. I&#8217;m not sure whether they were required to do that to remain married but I believe so.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302493</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302493</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry. Civil union is purely secular. Keep it that way.&lt;/i&gt;

In the UK, civil marriages are purely secular - and a good thing too for the atheist population. Hence (partly) my confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry. Civil union is purely secular. Keep it that way.</i></p>

	<p>In the UK, civil marriages are purely secular &#8211; and a good thing too for the atheist population. Hence (partly) my confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: piglet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302490</link>
		<dc:creator>piglet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302490</guid>
		<description>The way I remember it, some countries recognize &quot;conjugal&quot; relationships even without any ceremony. For example in Canada, if you have lived with a partner for one year you are automatically regarded as common-law partners. Many people are happy that way and don&#039;t see any reason for a formal marriage. (There are significant  differences to formal marriage: http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union.htm). I have also made the experience in Québec that people used the terms &quot;spouse&quot; and &quot;boyfriend/girlfriend&quot; interchangeably. 

At the same time Québec also has a civil union that is almost identical to marriage (http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union-civ.htm). Choice is good.

As an aside to 26/27, in Europe since Napoleon&#039;s reforms, marriages are not legally performed by church officials any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The way I remember it, some countries recognize &#8220;conjugal&#8221; relationships even without any ceremony. For example in Canada, if you have lived with a partner for one year you are automatically regarded as common-law partners. Many people are happy that way and don&#8217;t see any reason for a formal marriage. (There are significant  differences to formal marriage: <a href="http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union.htm</a>). I have also made the experience in Qu&#233;bec that people used the terms &#8220;spouse&#8221; and &#8220;boyfriend/girlfriend&#8221; interchangeably.</p>

	<p>At the same time Qu&#233;bec also has a civil union that is almost identical to marriage (<a href="http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union-civ.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/francais/publications/generale/union-civ.htm</a>). Choice is good.</p>

	<p>As an aside to 26/27, in Europe since Napoleon&#8217;s reforms, marriages are not legally performed by church officials any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Easwaran</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302485</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Easwaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302485</guid>
		<description>Also, as I recall, in New Jersey, civil unions are available to same-sex couples and to different-sex couples over the age of 62.  (I don&#039;t recall whether one or both partners have to be that old.)  The mother of one of my friends was apparently involved with the lobbying that got the state to pass the law before any court required it, and I asked her why there was the exception.  All she said was that sometimes people who enter a relationship after their spouses have died don&#039;t want to get re-married, but want some sort of legal protection.  Which didn&#039;t explain to me why younger people &lt;i&gt;wouldn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; want that sort of thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, as I recall, in New Jersey, civil unions are available to same-sex couples and to different-sex couples over the age of 62.  (I don&#8217;t recall whether one or both partners have to be that old.)  The mother of one of my friends was apparently involved with the lobbying that got the state to pass the law before any court required it, and I asked her why there was the exception.  All she said was that sometimes people who enter a relationship after their spouses have died don&#8217;t want to get re-married, but want some sort of legal protection.  Which didn&#8217;t explain to me why younger people <i>wouldn&#8217;t</i> want that sort of thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Easwaran</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302482</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Easwaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302482</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know how the development of things like &quot;covenant marriage&quot; in Louisiana have affected marriage from the opposite side?  I don&#039;t know what the actual distinctions are between marriage and &quot;covenant marriage&quot;, though I believe the latter is harder to dissolve.  How many people start out in a regular marriage and upgrade to a covenant marriage?  Does the existence of a stronger alternative devalue the idea of ordinary marriage in a way that leads to either fewer people getting married (because they no longer think regular marriage is worth it, but also don&#039;t feel ready for covenant marriage) or more people getting married (because the existence of a stronger alternative makes them think of ordinary marriage as more of a &quot;trial period&quot;)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Does anyone know how the development of things like &#8220;covenant marriage&#8221; in Louisiana have affected marriage from the opposite side?  I don&#8217;t know what the actual distinctions are between marriage and &#8220;covenant marriage&#8221;, though I believe the latter is harder to dissolve.  How many people start out in a regular marriage and upgrade to a covenant marriage?  Does the existence of a stronger alternative devalue the idea of ordinary marriage in a way that leads to either fewer people getting married (because they no longer think regular marriage is worth it, but also don&#8217;t feel ready for covenant marriage) or more people getting married (because the existence of a stronger alternative makes them think of ordinary marriage as more of a &#8220;trial period&#8221;)?</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302475</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302475</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry.&lt;/i&gt;

That -- the way you use the word compelled -- doesn&#039;t make sense to me. A church isn&#039;t legally compelled to marry anyone that the church doesn&#039;t want to marry. Their hand is not forced. I mean... there are churches in my state which refuse to marry two persons of &quot;heterogeneous ethnic heritage&quot; and they don&#039;t get in legal hot water for it. If they can do THAT in the 21st century, surely they can refuse to marry homosexual couples.

The reason this has to be a &quot;legal&quot; issue is many laws, e.g. regarding life insurance, explicitly refer to a &quot;spouse&quot; and the status of being &quot;married&quot; in the code. However much you&#039;d like it differently, marriage is not religious. It&#039;s a secular social contract and -- even if we agree to the premise that marriage was at any time ever a sacrament under the sole authority of one religion, which we don&#039;t -- marriage has been secular at least since the days of allowing a justice of the peace to perform the ceremony.

OK, I won&#039;t say any more because this is already wandering past the bounds of propriety into churlishness. Sorry for that; phrases like &quot;threat to society&quot; get under my skin. Language like that leads to, you know, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-54539854.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;countermeasures&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry.</i></p>

	<p>That&#8212;the way you use the word compelled&#8212;doesn&#8217;t make sense to me. A church isn&#8217;t legally compelled to marry anyone that the church doesn&#8217;t want to marry. Their hand is not forced. I mean&#8230; there are churches in my state which refuse to marry two persons of &#8220;heterogeneous ethnic heritage&#8221; and they don&#8217;t get in legal hot water for it. If they can do <span class="caps">THAT</span> in the 21st century, surely they can refuse to marry homosexual couples.</p>

	<p>The reason this has to be a &#8220;legal&#8221; issue is many laws, e.g. regarding life insurance, explicitly refer to a &#8220;spouse&#8221; and the status of being &#8220;married&#8221; in the code. However much you&#8217;d like it differently, marriage is not religious. It&#8217;s a secular social contract and&#8212;even if we agree to the premise that marriage was at any time ever a sacrament under the sole authority of one religion, which we don&#8217;t&#8212;marriage has been secular at least since the days of allowing a justice of the peace to perform the ceremony.</p>

	<p>OK, I won&#8217;t say any more because this is already wandering past the bounds of propriety into churlishness. Sorry for that; phrases like &#8220;threat to society&#8221; get under my skin. Language like that leads to, you know, <a href="http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-54539854.html" rel="nofollow">countermeasures</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Cobb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302471</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302471</guid>
		<description>As a social Conservative, who prefers small government, I&#039;m one who would rather the conversation not become a matter of law, especially not Constitutional law. My primary concern has always been that the sanction of the state to recognize whatever the people decide is a good enough relationship forces the hand of any church - which is exactly what is happening. The threat of civil unions is less so, because the presumption is that it doesn&#039;t impinge on any social definition of marriage. When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry. Civil union is purely secular. Keep it that way. The threat to society will be weathered. Marriage is what survives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a social Conservative, who prefers small government, I&#8217;m one who would rather the conversation not become a matter of law, especially not Constitutional law. My primary concern has always been that the sanction of the state to recognize whatever the people decide is a good enough relationship forces the hand of any church &#8211; which is exactly what is happening. The threat of civil unions is less so, because the presumption is that it doesn&#8217;t impinge on any social definition of marriage. When the term is conflated, churches are compelled to marry. Civil union is purely secular. Keep it that way. The threat to society will be weathered. Marriage is what survives.</p>
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		<title>By: mpowell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302437</link>
		<dc:creator>mpowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302437</guid>
		<description>With this sort of thing, the details matter a lot.  If there is little legal difference between Pacs and Marriage than this is probably a good thing, but not a big deal.  Conservatives might not like it, but even for the things that matter to them, it shouldn&#039;t actually change anything.

However, offering alternative contracts that are similar to but different from marriage in significant ways can have socially significant outcomes.  Those outcomes could be desirable or undesirable for both liberals and conservatives, but will probably depend on the specific social environment.  For example, in the wrong conservative social environment offering a marriage like contract that did not include much financial protection for a lower earning partner in the case of divorce could be disastrous for women.  On the other hand, maybe some states are ready to offer different alternatives that will actually lead to better gender equality.  And you can probably tell just-so stories both ways, so it would probably take a lot of research to really get to the truth of the matter.

The conservatives are right that things are a changing.  They couldn&#039;t be more wrong that banning gay marriage will actually get them anything they want (aside from being able to be mean to gay people, of course).  But the proliferation of alternative domestic arrangements, some of which will be recognized and supported by state law or corporate practice will have interesting social consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>With this sort of thing, the details matter a lot.  If there is little legal difference between Pacs and Marriage than this is probably a good thing, but not a big deal.  Conservatives might not like it, but even for the things that matter to them, it shouldn&#8217;t actually change anything.</p>

	<p>However, offering alternative contracts that are similar to but different from marriage in significant ways can have socially significant outcomes.  Those outcomes could be desirable or undesirable for both liberals and conservatives, but will probably depend on the specific social environment.  For example, in the wrong conservative social environment offering a marriage like contract that did not include much financial protection for a lower earning partner in the case of divorce could be disastrous for women.  On the other hand, maybe some states are ready to offer different alternatives that will actually lead to better gender equality.  And you can probably tell just-so stories both ways, so it would probably take a lot of research to really get to the truth of the matter.</p>

	<p>The conservatives are right that things are a changing.  They couldn&#8217;t be more wrong that banning gay marriage will actually get them anything they want (aside from being able to be mean to gay people, of course).  But the proliferation of alternative domestic arrangements, some of which will be recognized and supported by state law or corporate practice will have interesting social consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302434</link>
		<dc:creator>Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302434</guid>
		<description>Phil, to some extent the power is that people really fill the boxes in for themselves, and the success of these unions shows that people value it. Different people put somewhat different things in the boxes.

In general, marriage has a strong emotional attachment that a civil union doesn&#039;t have. For some people, it&#039;s a positive attachment and they are glad they can postpone the &#039;real&#039; marriage to a day that suits, while still having all the tax and legal benefits (which are not seen as the really important part of a marriage) .

For others, it&#039;s the opposite, they associate a marriage with a heavy bind they don&#039;t want. In my experience,  some people who come from strict religious backgrounds are glad to avoid actual marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Phil, to some extent the power is that people really fill the boxes in for themselves, and the success of these unions shows that people value it. Different people put somewhat different things in the boxes.</p>

	<p>In general, marriage has a strong emotional attachment that a civil union doesn&#8217;t have. For some people, it&#8217;s a positive attachment and they are glad they can postpone the &#8216;real&#8217; marriage to a day that suits, while still having all the tax and legal benefits (which are not seen as the really important part of a marriage) .</p>

	<p>For others, it&#8217;s the opposite, they associate a marriage with a heavy bind they don&#8217;t want. In my experience,  some people who come from strict religious backgrounds are glad to avoid actual marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302430</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302430</guid>
		<description>Not really - people very often have a &quot;blessing&quot; ceremony, sometimes attended by the kids. These days, in point of fact, people very often don&#039;t bother with anything until several years down the line, and then have a wedding (sometimes attended by the kids).

I&#039;m struggling here, because the premise seems to be that civil unions give you &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;something which marriage also gives you&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; but without the additional &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;something which only marriage gives you&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;, and I&#039;m not sure what goes in the first box, let alone the second. We got married because we wanted to make a public commitment and have it witnessed by family and friends - and, er, that&#039;s it. It gave my wife an alternative surname which she could use when she wanted to (hers often requires spelling out), but mostly she doesn&#039;t. The only thing I&#039;m aware of that actually changed afterwards was that her mother was willing to come and visit us, and I don&#039;t think most people&#039;s parents are moral enough to make that an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not really &#8211; people very often have a &#8220;blessing&#8221; ceremony, sometimes attended by the kids. These days, in point of fact, people very often don&#8217;t bother with anything until several years down the line, and then have a wedding (sometimes attended by the kids).</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m struggling here, because the premise seems to be that civil unions give you <i><b>something which marriage also gives you</b></i> but without the additional <i><b>something which only marriage gives you</b></i>, and I&#8217;m not sure what goes in the first box, let alone the second. We got married because we wanted to make a public commitment and have it witnessed by family and friends &#8211; and, er, that&#8217;s it. It gave my wife an alternative surname which she could use when she wanted to (hers often requires spelling out), but mostly she doesn&#8217;t. The only thing I&#8217;m aware of that actually changed afterwards was that her mother was willing to come and visit us, and I don&#8217;t think most people&#8217;s parents are moral enough to make that an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/01/24/civil-unions-and-heterosexual-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-302423</link>
		<dc:creator>Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=14493#comment-302423</guid>
		<description>Sure, but that&#039;s still way more than filling out two forms and emailing them.  And it takes a way the possibility of a big romantic emotional wedding later on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sure, but that&#8217;s still way more than filling out two forms and emailing them.  And it takes a way the possibility of a big romantic emotional wedding later on.</p>
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