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	<title>Comments on: Who has gained from the inequality boom?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325554</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325554</guid>
		<description>Might be interesting to see an ethnic breakdown on those unequal rise/fall stats. Not that ethnicity is anything real or anything. Though then again the US does have something like a 60% incarceration rate for young black males. Etc. That would probably be the bottom end of the chart. The top end might look a little different than the general US demographic as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Might be interesting to see an ethnic breakdown on those unequal rise/fall stats. Not that ethnicity is anything real or anything. Though then again the US does have something like a 60% incarceration rate for young black males. Etc. That would probably be the bottom end of the chart. The top end might look a little different than the general US demographic as well.</p>
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		<title>By: mlb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325471</link>
		<dc:creator>mlb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325471</guid>
		<description>I think you are all missing a very large factor - the fundamental way we manage our economy (via the Fed). We have a system in place whereby:

1) We target CPI first and foremost - wages are a large component of CPI. Therefore any rise in labor&#039;s bargaining power is quickly met with monetary tightening.
2) As long as CPI (i.e., wages) are low, we accept any amount of credit creation and asset inflation. This leads to higher asset values relative to wages, which benefits the wealthy.
3) The credit creation leads to boom-bust asset cycles. However, many asset-owners and wealthy interests are bailed out in the bust phase of the cycle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think you are all missing a very large factor &#8211; the fundamental way we manage our economy (via the Fed). We have a system in place whereby:</p>

	<p>1) We target <span class="caps">CPI</span> first and foremost &#8211; wages are a large component of <span class="caps">CPI</span>. Therefore any rise in labor&#8217;s bargaining power is quickly met with monetary tightening.<br />
2) As long as <span class="caps">CPI </span>(i.e., wages) are low, we accept any amount of credit creation and asset inflation. This leads to higher asset values relative to wages, which benefits the wealthy.<br />
3) The credit creation leads to boom-bust asset cycles. However, many asset-owners and wealthy interests are bailed out in the bust phase of the cycle.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Pasquale</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325381</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Pasquale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325381</guid>
		<description>But the real story is inequality within the top 1%.  Over roughly that time period, those at the 99.99th percentile did spectacularly better than those at the 99.9th, 99.5th, 99th, and 95th percentiles.  There is some evidence that even within that top 99.99th percentile, inequality reigned. In 2005, the “Fortunate 400”—the 400 households with the highest earnings in the U.S.—made on average $213.9 million apiece, and the cutoff for entry into this group was a $100 million income—about four times the average income of $26 million prevailing in the top 15,000 returns.

I have more stats in part II of this article: http://bit.ly/cYdvfl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But the real story is inequality within the top 1%.  Over roughly that time period, those at the 99.99th percentile did spectacularly better than those at the 99.9th, 99.5th, 99th, and 95th percentiles.  There is some evidence that even within that top 99.99th percentile, inequality reigned. In 2005, the &#8220;Fortunate 400&#8221;&#8212;the 400 households with the highest earnings in the U.S.&#8212;made on average $213.9 million apiece, and the cutoff for entry into this group was a $100 million income&#8212;about four times the average income of $26 million prevailing in the top 15,000 returns.</p>

	<p>I have more stats in part II of this article: <a href="http://bit.ly/cYdvfl" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/cYdvfl</a></p>
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		<title>By: Billikin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325284</link>
		<dc:creator>Billikin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325284</guid>
		<description>John Quiggin: &quot;In particular, I’m not convinced that relative income (that is, the subjective effects of comparing ones one income to a reference point) is the right way to think about it.&quot;

What about indebtedness of the lower half of the socio-economic scale? Isn&#039;t debt peonage of more concern than relative income? (OC, the two are related.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Quiggin: &#8220;In particular, I&#8217;m not convinced that relative income (that is, the subjective effects of comparing ones one income to a reference point) is the right way to think about it.&#8221;</p>

	<p>What about indebtedness of the lower half of the socio-economic scale? Isn&#8217;t debt peonage of more concern than relative income? (OC, the two are related.)</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325274</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325274</guid>
		<description>Seeds @26 - thanks for your response to Tim W. I agree entirely

LP, I agree that inequality is a big issue, and I think there are a lot of complexities that have yet to be explored. In particular, I&#039;m not convinced that relative income (that is, the subjective effects of comparing ones one income to a reference point) is the right way to think about it. Rather, I think, inequalities in income and status are intertwined with power relationships, social inclusion and exclusion and so on. The more that money income is the measure of all things, and the more unequally it is distributed, the worse these problems become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Seeds @26 &#8211; thanks for your response to Tim W. I agree entirely</p>

	<p>LP, I agree that inequality is a big issue, and I think there are a lot of complexities that have yet to be explored. In particular, I&#8217;m not convinced that relative income (that is, the subjective effects of comparing ones one income to a reference point) is the right way to think about it. Rather, I think, inequalities in income and status are intertwined with power relationships, social inclusion and exclusion and so on. The more that money income is the measure of all things, and the more unequally it is distributed, the worse these problems become.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325272</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325272</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks lp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey, thanks lp.</p>
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		<title>By: Straightwood</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325271</link>
		<dc:creator>Straightwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325271</guid>
		<description>An important reason for growing inequality is the relentless focus on aggregate measures of economic growth, such as GDP. There appears to be no consensus on devising reliable and widely accepted measures of equitable societal wealth distribution. The creation of such measures and their use in economic policy making are crucial to avoiding a neo-feudal future for America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>An important reason for growing inequality is the relentless focus on aggregate measures of economic growth, such as <span class="caps">GDP</span>. There appears to be no consensus on devising reliable and widely accepted measures of equitable societal wealth distribution. The creation of such measures and their use in economic policy making are crucial to avoiding a neo-feudal future for America.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325266</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325266</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Actually it’d be great to know where to find some follow-up to #24. Is someone somewhere publishing an ongoing / longitudinal study of the purchasing power of laborers around the world? &lt;/i&gt;

Yup. Jamie Galbraiith&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://utip.gov.utexas.edu/about.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Inequality Project&lt;/a&gt; at the University of Texas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Actually it&#8217;d be great to know where to find some follow-up to #24. Is someone somewhere publishing an ongoing / longitudinal study of the purchasing power of laborers around the world? </i></p>

	<p>Yup. Jamie Galbraiith&#8217;s <a href="http://utip.gov.utexas.edu/about.html" rel="nofollow">Inequality Project</a> at the University of Texas.</p>
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		<title>By: Salient</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325265</link>
		<dc:creator>Salient</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325265</guid>
		<description>Actually it&#039;d be great to know where to find some follow-up to #24. Is someone somewhere publishing an ongoing / longitudinal study of the purchasing power of laborers around the world? Probably no equivalent of CBO data exists...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually it&#8217;d be great to know where to find some follow-up to #24. Is someone somewhere publishing an ongoing / longitudinal study of the purchasing power of laborers around the world? Probably no equivalent of <span class="caps">CBO</span> data exists&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325264</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325264</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It doesn’t matter how much better [Tiger Woods] is than the others, even being 0.000001% better will mean he gets a disproportionate share of that expanded market.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s not really true; if he were really only slightly better than other professional golfers, he would win some and lose some and overall not stand out that much from the crowd.  It&#039;s precisely because he is (or was in his prime; I don&#039;t follow golf that closely but I understand some people think he is off his game at the moment, for obvious reasons) *so much* better than other top golfers that he became a phenomenon and not just some guy who won sometimes.

This is because not all golf tournaments are won by the best player, just like the World Cup is not always won by the best team, etc.  Time and chance happeneth to them all.  There is a school of thought that is extremely resistant to any attempt to apply this principle to *economic* outcomes, including economic &quot;tournaments&quot; like the market share of Microsoft, but they don&#039;t really have any facts to back up their ideology on that issue AFAICT.

Real-world outcomes are noisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It doesn&#8217;t matter how much better [Tiger Woods] is than the others, even being 0.000001% better will mean he gets a disproportionate share of that expanded market.</i></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s not really true; if he were really only slightly better than other professional golfers, he would win some and lose some and overall not stand out that much from the crowd.  It&#8217;s precisely because he is (or was in his prime; I don&#8217;t follow golf that closely but I understand some people think he is off his game at the moment, for obvious reasons) <strong>so much</strong> better than other top golfers that he became a phenomenon and not just some guy who won sometimes.</p>

	<p>This is because not all golf tournaments are won by the best player, just like the World Cup is not always won by the best team, etc.  Time and chance happeneth to them all.  There is a school of thought that is extremely resistant to any attempt to apply this principle to <strong>economic</strong> outcomes, including economic &#8220;tournaments&#8221; like the market share of Microsoft, but they don&#8217;t really have any facts to back up their ideology on that issue <span class="caps">AFAICT</span>.</p>

	<p>Real-world outcomes are noisy.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325259</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325259</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Tony Judt references Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett’s The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better (2009). Does anybody have an opinion on this book?&lt;/i&gt;

I think Wilkinson&#039;s work is very important for this discussion. I&#039;ve only skimmed a few parts of The Spirit Level but it&#039;s not clear that it adds a lot substantively to his earlier books, &lt;i&gt;Unhealthy Societies&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The Costs of Inequality&lt;/i&gt;, which are both very good. The important point is that asking how incomes further down the distribution have changed tells us little or nothing about the social consequences of increased inequality.

To  be honest, I&#039;m surprised how many smart, progressive economists treat absolute income as a proxy for wellbeing, when it&#039;s clearly nothing of the sort. (DeLong is the worst offender, but he&#039;s hardly alone.) Look at the Stern Review of the costs of climate change and of policies to avert it. Their absolute worst case scenario for climate change is that it will reduce world GDP by 14 percent, i.e. about 5 years of normal growth in the industrialized countries. How terrible would it be if we were forced todayto return to the penury and deprivation of our lives in 2005 or even 2000? 

Um, not very terrible. From which -- if you take Stern&#039;s numbers at all seriously -- you can only conclude that either climate change is no big deal, or that its effects on measured incomes are only a trivial part of its impact. 

I&#039;ll take door number 2; I&#039;m sure most of us here would; I&#039;m sure John Q. would. But in that case you have to accept  the implications for questions like the costs of inequality -- absolute income may be only a trivial part of those, too. And that&#039;s where Wilkinson&#039;s stuff is so valuable -- in thinking about where the real costs of inequality lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Tony Judt references Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett&#8217;s The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better (2009). Does anybody have an opinion on this book?</i></p>

	<p>I think Wilkinson&#8217;s work is very important for this discussion. I&#8217;ve only skimmed a few parts of The Spirit Level but it&#8217;s not clear that it adds a lot substantively to his earlier books, <i>Unhealthy Societies</i> and <i>The Costs of Inequality</i>, which are both very good. The important point is that asking how incomes further down the distribution have changed tells us little or nothing about the social consequences of increased inequality.</p>

	<p>To  be honest, I&#8217;m surprised how many smart, progressive economists treat absolute income as a proxy for wellbeing, when it&#8217;s clearly nothing of the sort. (DeLong is the worst offender, but he&#8217;s hardly alone.) Look at the Stern Review of the costs of climate change and of policies to avert it. Their absolute worst case scenario for climate change is that it will reduce world <span class="caps">GDP</span> by 14 percent, i.e. about 5 years of normal growth in the industrialized countries. How terrible would it be if we were forced todayto return to the penury and deprivation of our lives in 2005 or even 2000?</p>

	<p>Um, not very terrible. From which&#8212;if you take Stern&#8217;s numbers at all seriously&#8212;you can only conclude that either climate change is no big deal, or that its effects on measured incomes are only a trivial part of its impact.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ll take door number 2; I&#8217;m sure most of us here would; I&#8217;m sure John Q. would. But in that case you have to accept  the implications for questions like the costs of inequality&#8212;absolute income may be only a trivial part of those, too. And that&#8217;s where Wilkinson&#8217;s stuff is so valuable&#8212;in thinking about where the real costs of inequality lie.</p>
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		<title>By: hix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325254</link>
		<dc:creator>hix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325254</guid>
		<description>Do those right wing prophagandists even understand how they are shooting themself in the foot with their globalication lies.  The only effect if you make up  a story about how globalication leads to more inner country inequalty is that free trade gets abolished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Do those right wing prophagandists even understand how they are shooting themself in the foot with their globalication lies.  The only effect if you make up  a story about how globalication leads to more inner country inequalty is that free trade gets abolished.</p>
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		<title>By: DHFabian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325253</link>
		<dc:creator>DHFabian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325253</guid>
		<description>A largely-ignored factor is the impact of our welfare &quot;reform&quot;  on wages and job security. &quot;Workfare&quot; has essentially been the creation of a Third World (minimum wage or less/no workers&#039; rights) workforce here in the US, reportedly often used as replacement labor for those put on &quot;indefinite lay-off.&quot;  Previously family-supporting jobs have been broken down into pt. time, bottom wage workfare assignments.  With each round, more workers are added to the workfare pool. 

The tangle of workfare policies has been a tool for suppressing wages, getting rid of workers&#039; rights and protections, and ensuring an absence of union representation. Welfare reform is proving to be an increasingly strong factor in the declining quality of life in the US and the profitability of corporations.

This isn&#039;t the only factor in the redistribution of wealth from communities into the bank accounts of corporations, of course, but it is an important one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A largely-ignored factor is the impact of our welfare &#8220;reform&#8221;  on wages and job security. &#8220;Workfare&#8221; has essentially been the creation of a Third World (minimum wage or less/no workers&#8217; rights) workforce here in the US, reportedly often used as replacement labor for those put on &#8220;indefinite lay-off.&#8221;  Previously family-supporting jobs have been broken down into pt. time, bottom wage workfare assignments.  With each round, more workers are added to the workfare pool.</p>

	<p>The tangle of workfare policies has been a tool for suppressing wages, getting rid of workers&#8217; rights and protections, and ensuring an absence of union representation. Welfare reform is proving to be an increasingly strong factor in the declining quality of life in the US and the profitability of corporations.</p>

	<p>This isn&#8217;t the only factor in the redistribution of wealth from communities into the bank accounts of corporations, of course, but it is an important one.</p>
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		<title>By: Seeds</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325250</link>
		<dc:creator>Seeds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325250</guid>
		<description>Tim, isn&#039;t it a bit &quot;rich&quot; (see what I did there?) for you to derail this thread into an argument about globalisation, then, when John points you towards a rebuttal of your argument about globalisation, complain that it doesn&#039;t address income equality in the US?

The section in John&#039;s book is attacking the idea that globalisation has been a net good, worldwide, even if it&#039;s contributed to rising inequality in the US. This is something that your posts have implied / explicitly suggested. And to reiterate, this argument has nothing to do with the substance of the original post, but &lt;i&gt;you are responsible for the derail&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tim, isn&#8217;t it a bit &#8220;rich&#8221; (see what I did there?) for you to derail this thread into an argument about globalisation, then, when John points you towards a rebuttal of your argument about globalisation, complain that it doesn&#8217;t address income equality in the US?</p>

	<p>The section in John&#8217;s book is attacking the idea that globalisation has been a net good, worldwide, even if it&#8217;s contributed to rising inequality in the US. This is something that your posts have implied / explicitly suggested. And to reiterate, this argument has nothing to do with the substance of the original post, but <i>you are responsible for the derail</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2010/07/25/who-gained-from-the-inequality-boom/comment-page-1/#comment-325249</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=16623#comment-325249</guid>
		<description>@17: &lt;i&gt;Guess who these sorts of arrangements benefited&lt;/i&gt;

I imagine, among others, the people on $3 a day benefited. This is one reason I find it very hard to take seriously all of the hand-wringing about &quot;rising inequality&quot;. If you really cared about the position of the worst-off, not just the position of the worst-off-in-rich-countries, you might think twice about advocating, say, tariffs designed to nullify the &quot;advantage&quot; of being paid $3 a day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@17: <i>Guess who these sorts of arrangements benefited</i></p>

	<p>I imagine, among others, the people on $3 a day benefited. This is one reason I find it very hard to take seriously all of the hand-wringing about &#8220;rising inequality&#8221;. If you really cared about the position of the worst-off, not just the position of the worst-off-in-rich-countries, you might think twice about advocating, say, tariffs designed to nullify the &#8220;advantage&#8221; of being paid $3 a day.</p>
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