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	<title>Comments on: Metaphysical MacGuffins and Benjamin Button</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: LeeAnn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-436048</link>
		<dc:creator>LeeAnn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-436048</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s also Martin Amis&#039; Time&#039;s Arrow, about a Nazi doctor living backwards in time.  

And far as Kafka being funny, I remember a graduate seminar on Kafka at the Yale German Dept in the mid-90&#039;s where a visiting professor from Berlin reduced an entire room full of graduate students (both native and non-native speakers of German) to fits of helpless laughter by reading the first page or two of the Metamorphosis aloud in a dry, dead-pan tone. At the time, it seemed like a revelation, as I&#039;d never thought of Kafka as funny either. I attributed it in part to not being a native German speaker, hence missing the deadpan comedic nuance, and in part to not having ever heard the story read out loud.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also Martin Amis&#8217; Time&#8217;s Arrow, about a Nazi doctor living backwards in time.  </p>
<p>And far as Kafka being funny, I remember a graduate seminar on Kafka at the Yale German Dept in the mid-90&#8242;s where a visiting professor from Berlin reduced an entire room full of graduate students (both native and non-native speakers of German) to fits of helpless laughter by reading the first page or two of the Metamorphosis aloud in a dry, dead-pan tone. At the time, it seemed like a revelation, as I&#8217;d never thought of Kafka as funny either. I attributed it in part to not being a native German speaker, hence missing the deadpan comedic nuance, and in part to not having ever heard the story read out loud.</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435988</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I felt, not thought, something quite wondrous was going on.&quot;

Clearly there&#039;s no refuting a feeling. Right now I&#039;m listening to &quot;The Night Circus&quot; which is, I think, a good example of something working in the way you felt &quot;Benjamin&quot; worked, at least intermittently. (I haven&#039;t gotten to the end yet, but there&#039;s an awful lot of description of wonderful things for wonderfulnesses&#039; sake, and it&#039;s working for me.) I guess I just didn&#039;t get that from &quot;Benjamin&quot;. All I got was that old &#039;look at me, I&#039;m worth an Oscar!&#039; feeling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I felt, not thought, something quite wondrous was going on.&#8221;</p>
<p>Clearly there&#8217;s no refuting a feeling. Right now I&#8217;m listening to &#8220;The Night Circus&#8221; which is, I think, a good example of something working in the way you felt &#8220;Benjamin&#8221; worked, at least intermittently. (I haven&#8217;t gotten to the end yet, but there&#8217;s an awful lot of description of wonderful things for wonderfulnesses&#8217; sake, and it&#8217;s working for me.) I guess I just didn&#8217;t get that from &#8220;Benjamin&#8221;. All I got was that old &#8216;look at me, I&#8217;m worth an Oscar!&#8217; feeling.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisTS</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435949</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisTS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 19:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Katherine @91 that part of the problem with BB was his being played by BP. 

But, I did find the film wonderful in the literal sense.  And I think one aspect of that was the character&#039;s strangely stoical acceptance of his very uncomfortable fate (strangely stoical being something Pitt can do).  Further, it had one genuinely funny moment: when the young-old Benjamin is &#039;cured&#039; by the faith healer.  

So, great film? Nah.  But sometimes odd is just enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Katherine @91 that part of the problem with BB was his being played by BP. </p>
<p>But, I did find the film wonderful in the literal sense.  And I think one aspect of that was the character&#8217;s strangely stoical acceptance of his very uncomfortable fate (strangely stoical being something Pitt can do).  Further, it had one genuinely funny moment: when the young-old Benjamin is &#8216;cured&#8217; by the faith healer.  </p>
<p>So, great film? Nah.  But sometimes odd is just enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435894</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as I could tell, Benjamin Button was almost entirely about the wonderfulness of CG and make-up.  Look - they cried, like toddlers demanding attention - look, we can make a very handsome man look old and weird, much more convincingly than people have before!

And that was it.  Benjamin Button did nothing with his extraordinary existence other than go to sea and get prettier, dully.  Perhaps that could have been an interesting story.  Ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances does nothing actually extraordinary.  But that would have taken some acting chops beyond Brad Pitt alas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I could tell, Benjamin Button was almost entirely about the wonderfulness of CG and make-up.  Look &#8211; they cried, like toddlers demanding attention &#8211; look, we can make a very handsome man look old and weird, much more convincingly than people have before!</p>
<p>And that was it.  Benjamin Button did nothing with his extraordinary existence other than go to sea and get prettier, dully.  Perhaps that could have been an interesting story.  Ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances does nothing actually extraordinary.  But that would have taken some acting chops beyond Brad Pitt alas.</p>
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		<title>By: bianca steele</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435856</link>
		<dc:creator>bianca steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 04:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Bianca, have you seen Naked Lunch? &lt;/i&gt;

No, but I&#039;ve heard the book is funny.

&lt;i&gt;there are some lovely humorous moments in work like Eastern Promises&lt;/i&gt;

Which?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Bianca, have you seen Naked Lunch? </i></p>
<p>No, but I&#8217;ve heard the book is funny.</p>
<p><i>there are some lovely humorous moments in work like Eastern Promises</i></p>
<p>Which?</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435854</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 03:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My contrarian ire has been raised. 

The backwards aging Benjamin McGuffin casts a new and unfamiliar light on ordinary events. It&#039;s not allegory, failed or otherwise, at all. It&#039;s an optical trick, analogous perhaps to cross processing film. There is nothing hidden in the depths. It&#039;s all right there on the shiny surface.

Now, there are parts of the film where the effect is much too maudlin (it&#039;s Hollywood, after all, and Schmaltz sells). But there are others, as I recall, that seem to work quite well. My overall impression of the film (which I saw quite a long time ago) is that I &lt;i&gt;felt&lt;/i&gt;, not thought, something quite wondrous was going on. 

A film about the wonder that is life, and how easily we can fall into a Gradgrindian calculus of cause and effect? And about how art (in this case a simple little trick) can challenge, or at least refresh our view, of that same dull round of things?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My contrarian ire has been raised. </p>
<p>The backwards aging Benjamin McGuffin casts a new and unfamiliar light on ordinary events. It&#8217;s not allegory, failed or otherwise, at all. It&#8217;s an optical trick, analogous perhaps to cross processing film. There is nothing hidden in the depths. It&#8217;s all right there on the shiny surface.</p>
<p>Now, there are parts of the film where the effect is much too maudlin (it&#8217;s Hollywood, after all, and Schmaltz sells). But there are others, as I recall, that seem to work quite well. My overall impression of the film (which I saw quite a long time ago) is that I <i>felt</i>, not thought, something quite wondrous was going on. </p>
<p>A film about the wonder that is life, and how easily we can fall into a Gradgrindian calculus of cause and effect? And about how art (in this case a simple little trick) can challenge, or at least refresh our view, of that same dull round of things?</p>
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		<title>By: OhPlease</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435852</link>
		<dc:creator>OhPlease</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 02:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Other MMs: Orlando, The Tin Drum, Slaughterhouse Five, Tuck Everlasting]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other MMs: Orlando, The Tin Drum, Slaughterhouse Five, Tuck Everlasting</p>
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		<title>By: Soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435846</link>
		<dc:creator>Soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@85 interesting example - doctor who is at least nominally a sci fi show, but that relationship is clearly Moffat riffing off the Time Traveller&#039;s Wife, which is pure metaphysical mcguffin. 

That makes clear the distinction between the genres. Sci fi counts as having a flaw if it fails to fully explain things to the audience in a way that makes sense. MPMG doesn&#039;t; just like a rom com is not counted as flawed because it fails to include a kick ass action set piece.

Which is why is why pure sci fi rarely works well on tv or film; there about 3 scientific ideas that can successfully explained to a typical audience, and so once you have seen those 3 films (2001, Blade Runner, 12 Monkeys) the genre is done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@85 interesting example &#8211; doctor who is at least nominally a sci fi show, but that relationship is clearly Moffat riffing off the Time Traveller&#8217;s Wife, which is pure metaphysical mcguffin. </p>
<p>That makes clear the distinction between the genres. Sci fi counts as having a flaw if it fails to fully explain things to the audience in a way that makes sense. MPMG doesn&#8217;t; just like a rom com is not counted as flawed because it fails to include a kick ass action set piece.</p>
<p>Which is why is why pure sci fi rarely works well on tv or film; there about 3 scientific ideas that can successfully explained to a typical audience, and so once you have seen those 3 films (2001, Blade Runner, 12 Monkeys) the genre is done.</p>
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		<title>By: Hidden Heart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435829</link>
		<dc:creator>Hidden Heart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cronenberg not funny? Bianca, have you &lt;i&gt;seen&lt;/i&gt; Naked Lunch? Peter Weller is hilarious! As is Roy Scheider. And the typewriter. Now granted that&#039;s an adaptation of work that is routinely very mordantly funny, but there are some lovely humorous moments in work like Eastern Promises, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cronenberg not funny? Bianca, have you <i>seen</i> Naked Lunch? Peter Weller is hilarious! As is Roy Scheider. And the typewriter. Now granted that&#8217;s an adaptation of work that is routinely very mordantly funny, but there are some lovely humorous moments in work like Eastern Promises, too.</p>
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		<title>By: TheSophist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435826</link>
		<dc:creator>TheSophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how The Doctor and River fit into this  (where this = the overall discussion about aging backwards.)  They are, after all, aging backwards from each other&#039;s point of view - but it doesn&#039;t seem McGuffiny (and it makes sense according to the rules of the universe (I think)) and serves to add both timey-wimey plot twists and tinges of sadness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how The Doctor and River fit into this  (where this = the overall discussion about aging backwards.)  They are, after all, aging backwards from each other&#8217;s point of view &#8211; but it doesn&#8217;t seem McGuffiny (and it makes sense according to the rules of the universe (I think)) and serves to add both timey-wimey plot twists and tinges of sadness.</p>
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		<title>By: TheSophist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435825</link>
		<dc:creator>TheSophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obsession = Oblivion, of course.  Magna mea culpa]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obsession = Oblivion, of course.  Magna mea culpa</p>
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		<title>By: TheSophist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435824</link>
		<dc:creator>TheSophist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bianca Steele - You are not alone (at least in your views on DFW.)  I think that &quot;The Depressed Person&quot; is absolutely hilarious.  Then there&#039;s the story in Obsession (I forget which one) in which the secretaries sitting around having lunch suddenly start rehashing Zizek on fecal matter and toilets. (That&#039;s a bit of an easter egg, perhaps - but v funny if you&#039;re aware of the original.)

There are also some gloriously funny bits in IJ.  Setting out to make the most depressing music in the world by taking a Wings tape and editing out everything except Linda&#039;s off-key back-up vocals and off-time tambourine banging...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bianca Steele &#8211; You are not alone (at least in your views on DFW.)  I think that &#8220;The Depressed Person&#8221; is absolutely hilarious.  Then there&#8217;s the story in Obsession (I forget which one) in which the secretaries sitting around having lunch suddenly start rehashing Zizek on fecal matter and toilets. (That&#8217;s a bit of an easter egg, perhaps &#8211; but v funny if you&#8217;re aware of the original.)</p>
<p>There are also some gloriously funny bits in IJ.  Setting out to make the most depressing music in the world by taking a Wings tape and editing out everything except Linda&#8217;s off-key back-up vocals and off-time tambourine banging&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bianca steele</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435817</link>
		<dc:creator>bianca steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[in The Fly]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in The Fly</p>
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		<title>By: bianca steele</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435815</link>
		<dc:creator>bianca steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AlsoOTOH  re. Cronenberg, when I was seventeen, I thought the bit where the geeky, IIRC furnitureless mad scientist had an espresso machine, and thought the machine was a terrific inducement for a woman to visit his home late at night, was very yuppieish and very funny.  I guess the modern equivalent would be a sous vide.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AlsoOTOH  re. Cronenberg, when I was seventeen, I thought the bit where the geeky, IIRC furnitureless mad scientist had an espresso machine, and thought the machine was a terrific inducement for a woman to visit his home late at night, was very yuppieish and very funny.  I guess the modern equivalent would be a sous vide.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Roberts</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/11/21/metaphysical-macguffins-and-benjamin-button/comment-page-2/#comment-435813</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26692#comment-435813</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Irving (no relation): I&#039;m a pedant, but the Phil Dick novel you&#039;re thinking of is &lt;i&gt;Counter Clock World.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Irving (no relation): I&#8217;m a pedant, but the Phil Dick novel you&#8217;re thinking of is <i>Counter Clock World.</i></p>
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