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	<title>Comments on: Thomas Jefferson: American Fascist?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-7/#comment-437602</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 20:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[In raising the question of whether Jefferson was an important antecedent of scientific racism (I assume that is what the OP means by &quot;fascism&quot;), you have to wonder with whom he would have aligned himself in the Science of Man -- Nott, Gobbineau, Louis Agazis, Ernst Haeckel, and many more; or with Darwin and Wallace? Would he have agreed with Franz Boas&#039;s contention that anthropologists have a duty to speak out on social questions, advocate for the people they study, and avoid lying and deception in their work, no matter how flawed their personal character might have been? 
Whose side would he have taken in the 1962 dispute debate among physical anthropologists over Carleton Putnam&#039;s segregationist screed, &quot;Race and Reason&quot;, when it was defended by Putnam&#039;s cousin, Carleton Coon, then President of the  American Association of Physical Anthropologists. (The racist Coon, a former secret agent and advocate of clandestine assassination involved in Operation Torch in North Africa in WW2 ,  has been mentioned as a possible model for agent 007, &quot;licensed to kill&quot; and also Indiana Jones.) 

The answer depends on how high an estimation you have of Jefferson&#039;s intellect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In raising the question of whether Jefferson was an important antecedent of scientific racism (I assume that is what the OP means by &#8220;fascism&#8221;), you have to wonder with whom he would have aligned himself in the Science of Man &#8212; Nott, Gobbineau, Louis Agazis, Ernst Haeckel, and many more; or with Darwin and Wallace? Would he have agreed with Franz Boas&#8217;s contention that anthropologists have a duty to speak out on social questions, advocate for the people they study, and avoid lying and deception in their work, no matter how flawed their personal character might have been?<br />
Whose side would he have taken in the 1962 dispute debate among physical anthropologists over Carleton Putnam&#8217;s segregationist screed, &#8220;Race and Reason&#8221;, when it was defended by Putnam&#8217;s cousin, Carleton Coon, then President of the  American Association of Physical Anthropologists. (The racist Coon, a former secret agent and advocate of clandestine assassination involved in Operation Torch in North Africa in WW2 ,  has been mentioned as a possible model for agent 007, &#8220;licensed to kill&#8221; and also Indiana Jones.) </p>
<p>The answer depends on how high an estimation you have of Jefferson&#8217;s intellect.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-7/#comment-437538</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 03:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you see here is Jefferson as a man of the Enlightenment (which believed that men were everywhere and in all times alike) deploring, after the usual manner of the Enlightenment writings in which he was steeped, that we do not yet have a &quot;Science of Man&quot;:  &quot;To our reproach it must be said, that though for a century and a half we have had under our eyes the races of black and of red men, they have never yet been viewed by us as subjects of natural history.&quot; (cf  Rousseau&#039;s Second Discourse:&lt;i&gt;&quot;The whole world is covered with nations of which we know only the names, yet we dabble in judging the human race! Let us suppose a Montesquieu, a Buffon, a Diderot, a d&#039;Alembert, a Condillac, or men of that stamp traveling in order to inform their compatriots by observing and describing . . . we ourselves would see a new world come from their pens, and we would thus come to learn our own.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
And in the next breath Jefferson voices what he calls a &quot;suspicion&quot;, though he hopes (sincerely or not) it won&#039;t be the case, that such a science might reveal that all men might not be equal (which would certainly be convenient for slaveowners like himself). After all, for Jefferson African slaves were certainly &quot;the other&quot;, and didn&#039;t appear to conform to Johann Joachim Winckelmann&#039;s influential 18th c. standard of idealized beauty as epitomized by the long flowing hair of the Apollo Belvedere. Nor had they written classical poetry (cf. Saul Bellow, &quot;When Africans write Tolstoy, I will read it). Also, they didn&#039;t go in for courtly love, plus other reasons drawn from folklore and prejudice. 

CR calls our attention to the fact that Josiah Nott (1804-73), a scientific racist from Alabama, who posited separate and unequal origins for the races in a very un-Enlightenment manner, liked to invoke the authority of Jefferson&#039;s Notes From Virginia to give legitimacy to his racist theories.  The unstated implication is that Nott&#039;s primary inspiration came from Jefferson (who died when Nott was 22) and that perhaps Jefferson was responsible for Nott&#039;s spurious &quot;Science of Man &quot;. 

The hoped-for &quot;Science of Man&quot; of the Enlightenment did assume a perverted shape when it emerged during the nineteenth century (mostly after the end of the US Civil War). Why it did and why those ethnographers who spoke up for equality and human rights were marginalized or silenced are very interesting questions but probably don&#039;t have too much to do with Jefferson.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you see here is Jefferson as a man of the Enlightenment (which believed that men were everywhere and in all times alike) deploring, after the usual manner of the Enlightenment writings in which he was steeped, that we do not yet have a &#8220;Science of Man&#8221;:  &#8220;To our reproach it must be said, that though for a century and a half we have had under our eyes the races of black and of red men, they have never yet been viewed by us as subjects of natural history.&#8221; (cf  Rousseau&#8217;s Second Discourse:<i>&#8220;The whole world is covered with nations of which we know only the names, yet we dabble in judging the human race! Let us suppose a Montesquieu, a Buffon, a Diderot, a d&#8217;Alembert, a Condillac, or men of that stamp traveling in order to inform their compatriots by observing and describing . . . we ourselves would see a new world come from their pens, and we would thus come to learn our own.&#8221;</i><br />
And in the next breath Jefferson voices what he calls a &#8220;suspicion&#8221;, though he hopes (sincerely or not) it won&#8217;t be the case, that such a science might reveal that all men might not be equal (which would certainly be convenient for slaveowners like himself). After all, for Jefferson African slaves were certainly &#8220;the other&#8221;, and didn&#8217;t appear to conform to Johann Joachim Winckelmann&#8217;s influential 18th c. standard of idealized beauty as epitomized by the long flowing hair of the Apollo Belvedere. Nor had they written classical poetry (cf. Saul Bellow, &#8220;When Africans write Tolstoy, I will read it). Also, they didn&#8217;t go in for courtly love, plus other reasons drawn from folklore and prejudice. </p>
<p>CR calls our attention to the fact that Josiah Nott (1804-73), a scientific racist from Alabama, who posited separate and unequal origins for the races in a very un-Enlightenment manner, liked to invoke the authority of Jefferson&#8217;s Notes From Virginia to give legitimacy to his racist theories.  The unstated implication is that Nott&#8217;s primary inspiration came from Jefferson (who died when Nott was 22) and that perhaps Jefferson was responsible for Nott&#8217;s spurious &#8220;Science of Man &#8220;. </p>
<p>The hoped-for &#8220;Science of Man&#8221; of the Enlightenment did assume a perverted shape when it emerged during the nineteenth century (mostly after the end of the US Civil War). Why it did and why those ethnographers who spoke up for equality and human rights were marginalized or silenced are very interesting questions but probably don&#8217;t have too much to do with Jefferson.</p>
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		<title>By: rootless (@root_e)</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437532</link>
		<dc:creator>rootless (@root_e)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@298 
Ideology is very malleable as is language. The South African Mine Workers union in the 1920s had a slogan something like &quot;white workers of the world unite&quot;. 
The French aristocrats resisting Necker&#039;s attempt to make them pay taxes spoke of despotism and infringement on liberty in language similar to what English Chartists used and American Tea Partiers, both original and farcial.  

As @233 notes finding  intellectual relationships from phrasing is not necessarily a productive exercise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@298<br />
Ideology is very malleable as is language. The South African Mine Workers union in the 1920s had a slogan something like &#8220;white workers of the world unite&#8221;.<br />
The French aristocrats resisting Necker&#8217;s attempt to make them pay taxes spoke of despotism and infringement on liberty in language similar to what English Chartists used and American Tea Partiers, both original and farcial.  </p>
<p>As @233 notes finding  intellectual relationships from phrasing is not necessarily a productive exercise.</p>
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		<title>By: PGD</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437528</link>
		<dc:creator>PGD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[should have been -- &#039;any easy equation of apartheid with fascism&#039;. There are elements that both share in common but democratic apartheid states are different from fascist states.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>should have been &#8212; &#8216;any easy equation of apartheid with fascism&#8217;. There are elements that both share in common but democratic apartheid states are different from fascist states.</p>
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		<title>By: PGD</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437527</link>
		<dc:creator>PGD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From an intellectual history perspective it is kind of nuts to call Jefferson a fascist or label him as a precursor of fascism. The problem isn&#039;t simply that there is no direct line of intellectual connection, but that Jefferson was a significant *anti-fascist* -- the rejection of democracy and legislative rule among the free population is just as essential to fascism as racism, perhaps even more so. And Jefferson was of course an important champion of democracy among the white population, and had a lasting and powerful effect on democratic ideology and constitutional governance that is absolutely antithetical to fascism.

What makes sense is to connect Jefferson not fascism but to apartheid, e.g. South Africa, the post Civil War south, and to some extent Israel. Those nations face the issue of running a democracy with a large class of non-citizens considered inferior for racial reasons. And I don&#039;t think there is any equation of apartheid with fascism. Apartheid states are oppressive but not fascist, they often pride themselves on democracy, respect for judicial rights of the dominant group, etc. The difference is real and has consequences. South Africa pulled off a peaceful transition to majority rule that is in many ways historically unprecedented. Anyone want to guess how that would have gone if Hitler and his cronies had been in charge? And Israel is, again, oppressive but not eliminationist. The democratic and rights-respecting elements have an influence and create pressures for change that are real even when nations have adopted racist ideologies and stipped persons under their sovereignty of rights. You can see this same tension in Jefferson&#039;s thought even though he was quite racist.

Also, Bruce Wilder&#039;s comment @137 deserves rereading as a statement of the basic difference between a politician and a theorist. It means something that Jefferson as a politician made some progressive moves on the emancipation issue, which was the actual pressing political issue, while the issue of co-existence post-empancipation was much more distant (except, as Corey points out, in the case of freedmen).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From an intellectual history perspective it is kind of nuts to call Jefferson a fascist or label him as a precursor of fascism. The problem isn&#8217;t simply that there is no direct line of intellectual connection, but that Jefferson was a significant *anti-fascist* &#8212; the rejection of democracy and legislative rule among the free population is just as essential to fascism as racism, perhaps even more so. And Jefferson was of course an important champion of democracy among the white population, and had a lasting and powerful effect on democratic ideology and constitutional governance that is absolutely antithetical to fascism.</p>
<p>What makes sense is to connect Jefferson not fascism but to apartheid, e.g. South Africa, the post Civil War south, and to some extent Israel. Those nations face the issue of running a democracy with a large class of non-citizens considered inferior for racial reasons. And I don&#8217;t think there is any equation of apartheid with fascism. Apartheid states are oppressive but not fascist, they often pride themselves on democracy, respect for judicial rights of the dominant group, etc. The difference is real and has consequences. South Africa pulled off a peaceful transition to majority rule that is in many ways historically unprecedented. Anyone want to guess how that would have gone if Hitler and his cronies had been in charge? And Israel is, again, oppressive but not eliminationist. The democratic and rights-respecting elements have an influence and create pressures for change that are real even when nations have adopted racist ideologies and stipped persons under their sovereignty of rights. You can see this same tension in Jefferson&#8217;s thought even though he was quite racist.</p>
<p>Also, Bruce Wilder&#8217;s comment @137 deserves rereading as a statement of the basic difference between a politician and a theorist. It means something that Jefferson as a politician made some progressive moves on the emancipation issue, which was the actual pressing political issue, while the issue of co-existence post-empancipation was much more distant (except, as Corey points out, in the case of freedmen).</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437526</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In &lt;i&gt;Tristes Tropiques&lt;/i&gt; Claude Lévi-Strauss hypothesized that because of the similarities between ancient civilizations, &quot;In the formation of cities and empires, that is, the integration of a political system of a considerable number of individuals and their hierarchization in casts and classes&quot; that writing was invented for the purpose of enslaving men:

 &lt;i&gt;... that is the typical evolution that is present from Egypt to China, when writing emerges: it appears to favor the exploitation of men, before their enlightenment. [...] If my hypothesis were correct, then it is necessary to admit that the primary function of written communication is that of facilitating slavery. The employing of writing for disinterested ends, with the view of extracting from it intellectual and aesthetic satisfactions is a secondary result, if it is not reduced, in the majority of cases, as a means of reinforcing, justifying, or dissimulating the other function.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In <i>Tristes Tropiques</i> Claude Lévi-Strauss hypothesized that because of the similarities between ancient civilizations, &#8220;In the formation of cities and empires, that is, the integration of a political system of a considerable number of individuals and their hierarchization in casts and classes&#8221; that writing was invented for the purpose of enslaving men:</p>
<p> <i>&#8230; that is the typical evolution that is present from Egypt to China, when writing emerges: it appears to favor the exploitation of men, before their enlightenment. [...] If my hypothesis were correct, then it is necessary to admit that the primary function of written communication is that of facilitating slavery. The employing of writing for disinterested ends, with the view of extracting from it intellectual and aesthetic satisfactions is a secondary result, if it is not reduced, in the majority of cases, as a means of reinforcing, justifying, or dissimulating the other function.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Main Street Muse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437524</link>
		<dc:creator>Main Street Muse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So yes, who needs fascism, when you can have the same thing in a shinier package called liberalism?&quot;

I think the system is called capitalism. And it is indeed shiny.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So yes, who needs fascism, when you can have the same thing in a shinier package called liberalism?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the system is called capitalism. And it is indeed shiny.</p>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437523</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are an estimated 27 million slaves today and that&#039;s just the tip of the iceberg of unimaginably inhumane working conditions worldwide and we with our gadgets, lattes and clothes are all profiting from this despicable system. So yes, who needs fascism, when you can have the same thing in a shinier package called liberalism?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are an estimated 27 million slaves today and that&#8217;s just the tip of the iceberg of unimaginably inhumane working conditions worldwide and we with our gadgets, lattes and clothes are all profiting from this despicable system. So yes, who needs fascism, when you can have the same thing in a shinier package called liberalism?</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Vinokurov</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437520</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Vinokurov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Right, Jerry Vinokurov, and Popper considered Rousseau a Platonist and therefore a totalitarian — in spirit, of course.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My only point is that the practice of tracing the origins of some modern trend to historical antecedents isn&#039;t exactly revolutionary. Obviously Plato wasn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;literally&lt;/i&gt; a fascist, and neither was Thomas Jefferson. It doesn&#039;t mean that there&#039;s no merit in working out the threads of influence stretching from one place to the next, which is what I take Corey (and Popper) to be doing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Right, Jerry Vinokurov, and Popper considered Rousseau a Platonist and therefore a totalitarian — in spirit, of course.</p></blockquote>
<p>My only point is that the practice of tracing the origins of some modern trend to historical antecedents isn&#8217;t exactly revolutionary. Obviously Plato wasn&#8217;t <i>literally</i> a fascist, and neither was Thomas Jefferson. It doesn&#8217;t mean that there&#8217;s no merit in working out the threads of influence stretching from one place to the next, which is what I take Corey (and Popper) to be doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437517</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 18:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would of course be wrong to say that the OP is taken from the &quot;Art of Bullshit&quot; playbook. But in a deeper sense perhaps it is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would of course be wrong to say that the OP is taken from the &#8220;Art of Bullshit&#8221; playbook. But in a deeper sense perhaps it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Soullite</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437514</link>
		<dc:creator>Soullite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, when you have an anti-civil &#039;liberties&#039; (actually, rights) that liberals love, you have to tear down the founder most associated with those liberties.

 See also: The endless attacks on FDR&#039;s legacy during the first time (if you have a pro-banker president liberals love, you have to tear down the President most associated with anti-banker sentiment). 

 I suspect that this will become a common theme.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, when you have an anti-civil &#8216;liberties&#8217; (actually, rights) that liberals love, you have to tear down the founder most associated with those liberties.</p>
<p> See also: The endless attacks on FDR&#8217;s legacy during the first time (if you have a pro-banker president liberals love, you have to tear down the President most associated with anti-banker sentiment). </p>
<p> I suspect that this will become a common theme.</p>
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		<title>By: bianca steele</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437511</link>
		<dc:creator>bianca steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apart from the Jefferson question, which I guess if you think it&#039;s silly to need &quot;native&quot; precursors for a nation&#039;s political thought, or you weren&#039;t crazy about that whole liberal-consensus trumpeting of Jefferson a few decades back, or it doesn&#039;t bother you much that the last &quot;Founder&quot; standing is Alexander Hamilton--I&#039;m surprised to see fascism reduced to petty-bourgeois democracy or something like it.  Though maybe only because the whole &quot;you know the Nazis said something very similar?  hm, hm&quot; thing got old for me a long time ago.  But where&#039;s the futurism? Where&#039;s the quasi-Roman civil religion, the banners and the massive architecture?  Where&#039;s the promotion of manufacturing and industry so they can be yoked to the progress of the state?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apart from the Jefferson question, which I guess if you think it&#8217;s silly to need &#8220;native&#8221; precursors for a nation&#8217;s political thought, or you weren&#8217;t crazy about that whole liberal-consensus trumpeting of Jefferson a few decades back, or it doesn&#8217;t bother you much that the last &#8220;Founder&#8221; standing is Alexander Hamilton&#8211;I&#8217;m surprised to see fascism reduced to petty-bourgeois democracy or something like it.  Though maybe only because the whole &#8220;you know the Nazis said something very similar?  hm, hm&#8221; thing got old for me a long time ago.  But where&#8217;s the futurism? Where&#8217;s the quasi-Roman civil religion, the banners and the massive architecture?  Where&#8217;s the promotion of manufacturing and industry so they can be yoked to the progress of the state?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh G.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437509</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Trying to trace the intellectual antecedents of fascism is a tricky task, because fascism as an ideology was largely defined by explicitly rejecting the very idea of intellectualism itself. As Mussolini put it: &quot;The democrats of Il Mondo want to know our program? It is to break the bones of the democrats of Il Mondo.&quot; Or as Hitler put it in his Sportspalast speech in February 1933, Germany under the Nazis would be ruled &quot;not according to theories hatched by some alien brain, but according to the eternal laws valid for all time.&quot; And what were these &quot;laws&quot;? In the next paragraph he described them as &quot;our own flesh and blood and willpower and in our soil.&quot; Fascism was always about gut feeling, blood and soil, not about intellectual theories.

Of course, the fascists were influenced by previous generations of theorists even if they refused to admit this to themselves and others. But because of fascism&#039;s anti-intellectual bent, this influence was largely indirect, and took place via crude popularizations. For instance, Hitler claimed American Manifest Destiny as an inspiration for his attempted conquest of eastern Europe, but his knowledge of the American Old West did not come from any actual historian or theorist &#8211; instead it came from the works of novelist Karl May. There is no evidence that Hitler or any other leading Nazis were even aware of Jefferson&#039;s racist writings; they might have been inspired by more prominent theorists of &quot;scientific racism&quot; such as Gobineau, Chamberlain, and Grant, but even these would usually only have been known second-hand, through knock-off racist and anti-Semitic pamphlets that have been long forgotten to history.

So Jefferson&#039;s direct influence on 20th-century European fascists is probably near nil, but the herrenvolk democracy he helped to create in the American South clearly did have an influential effect on Hitler, not to mention countless other bigots both at home and abroad up to the present day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to trace the intellectual antecedents of fascism is a tricky task, because fascism as an ideology was largely defined by explicitly rejecting the very idea of intellectualism itself. As Mussolini put it: &#8220;The democrats of Il Mondo want to know our program? It is to break the bones of the democrats of Il Mondo.&#8221; Or as Hitler put it in his Sportspalast speech in February 1933, Germany under the Nazis would be ruled &#8220;not according to theories hatched by some alien brain, but according to the eternal laws valid for all time.&#8221; And what were these &#8220;laws&#8221;? In the next paragraph he described them as &#8220;our own flesh and blood and willpower and in our soil.&#8221; Fascism was always about gut feeling, blood and soil, not about intellectual theories.</p>
<p>Of course, the fascists were influenced by previous generations of theorists even if they refused to admit this to themselves and others. But because of fascism&#8217;s anti-intellectual bent, this influence was largely indirect, and took place via crude popularizations. For instance, Hitler claimed American Manifest Destiny as an inspiration for his attempted conquest of eastern Europe, but his knowledge of the American Old West did not come from any actual historian or theorist &ndash; instead it came from the works of novelist Karl May. There is no evidence that Hitler or any other leading Nazis were even aware of Jefferson&#8217;s racist writings; they might have been inspired by more prominent theorists of &#8220;scientific racism&#8221; such as Gobineau, Chamberlain, and Grant, but even these would usually only have been known second-hand, through knock-off racist and anti-Semitic pamphlets that have been long forgotten to history.</p>
<p>So Jefferson&#8217;s direct influence on 20th-century European fascists is probably near nil, but the herrenvolk democracy he helped to create in the American South clearly did have an influential effect on Hitler, not to mention countless other bigots both at home and abroad up to the present day.</p>
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		<title>By: djw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437508</link>
		<dc:creator>djw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 17:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;#77 was really the first explicit signal that by Thomas Jefferson, American Fascist? you didn’t even mean to say that Jefferson was a Fascist, or even that an analogue to fascism held political force in Jefferson’s time. A narrower title more like Did Thomas Jefferson’s fear of emancipation inform/presage Fascism? would’ve saved a lot of pointless confusion and hostility.&lt;/em&gt;

All that struck me as perfectly obvious in the original post. As for a provocative title: isn&#039;t that something of an internet tradition? Anyway, I was really struck by how (over)sensitive people evidently are on the subject of Jefferson&#039;s reputation. There are considerable elements of Jefferson&#039;s political thought I find quite attractive, but that, if anything, makes me more interested in the kind of project Corey&#039;s engaged in here: I&#039;m unlikely to take the kind of angle he does because of my own pro-Jefferson tendencies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>#77 was really the first explicit signal that by Thomas Jefferson, American Fascist? you didn’t even mean to say that Jefferson was a Fascist, or even that an analogue to fascism held political force in Jefferson’s time. A narrower title more like Did Thomas Jefferson’s fear of emancipation inform/presage Fascism? would’ve saved a lot of pointless confusion and hostility.</em></p>
<p>All that struck me as perfectly obvious in the original post. As for a provocative title: isn&#8217;t that something of an internet tradition? Anyway, I was really struck by how (over)sensitive people evidently are on the subject of Jefferson&#8217;s reputation. There are considerable elements of Jefferson&#8217;s political thought I find quite attractive, but that, if anything, makes me more interested in the kind of project Corey&#8217;s engaged in here: I&#8217;m unlikely to take the kind of angle he does because of my own pro-Jefferson tendencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/02/thomas-jefferson-american-fascist/comment-page-6/#comment-437506</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 16:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26801#comment-437506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t Jean-Francois Lyotard and Michel Foucault maintain that liberal humanism is merely a pretext for colonialism, imperialism, prisons, and world domination of those, whom, like Caliban, its adherents consider less than human? Been there, done that. Jefferson as Fascist is so last year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Jean-Francois Lyotard and Michel Foucault maintain that liberal humanism is merely a pretext for colonialism, imperialism, prisons, and world domination of those, whom, like Caliban, its adherents consider less than human? Been there, done that. Jefferson as Fascist is so last year.</p>
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