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	<title>Comments on: Peak Pale</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Davis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438738</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One temporizing Rx for the GOP: selectively changing the way the electoral votes of states are cast.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One temporizing Rx for the GOP: selectively changing the way the electoral votes of states are cast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: purple</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438448</link>
		<dc:creator>purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Of course black NFL players are often racist about who they’d rather play for and about many other things, but white quarterbacks, as a direct result of unstated NFL policies, are the ones who are generally allowed to have lengthy starting careers longer than four or five years. Get my drift?&lt;/i&gt;

No, I don&#039;t. And I doubt you do either. If you can find some correlation of this by looking at: quarterback ratings/time &quot;allowed&quot; to play , then you would be on firmer ground.

As it is, you&#039;re merely spouting bromides.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Of course black NFL players are often racist about who they’d rather play for and about many other things, but white quarterbacks, as a direct result of unstated NFL policies, are the ones who are generally allowed to have lengthy starting careers longer than four or five years. Get my drift?</i></p>
<p>No, I don&#8217;t. And I doubt you do either. If you can find some correlation of this by looking at: quarterback ratings/time &#8220;allowed&#8221; to play , then you would be on firmer ground.</p>
<p>As it is, you&#8217;re merely spouting bromides.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: purple</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438447</link>
		<dc:creator>purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2012 05:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a two party system, it&#039;s pretty easy to shift tactics. The Republicans will do the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a two party system, it&#8217;s pretty easy to shift tactics. The Republicans will do the same.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438382</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How exactly is racism in the NFL a matter of &quot;state sanction&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How exactly is racism in the NFL a matter of &#8220;state sanction&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438340</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 00:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1)  I understood this in 2005, right or wrong:  To the extent that peak oil mattered, it mattered because oil is the base of the political economy of the modern nation state, and that most of the means of control elites have over the state is related to oil consumption, one way or another.  That variety of oil consumption, classically viewed through things like generous fuel subsidies in various third world countries, is hurt at the margins the most because of the direct impact of foreign exchange for the national central bank (or high indebtedness from increased cost of infrastructure building).  In places like Jordan (and Syria earlier, for that matter), the reduction of said subsidies without commensurate compensation elsewheres or at least greater economic freedom (ability to go into business, anti-monopoly actions in import-export/telecom, etc) has led to loss of legitimacy and greater questioning of disparate policies initially unquestioned.

2)  Gary Young is wrong, in the sense that he underestimates how jealous the teahadist are to competing policy initiatives in any queue.  He only needs to inspect the events in the Rust Belts and their MiniMussolini governerships.  If he does that, he will understand that he fundamentally flattens the landscape of the billionaire population&#039;s metaphysics.  There are plenty of very rich people who are entirely committed to various crazy conservative memes, and who also benefit from a strong return simply by leading a political faction, never mind control of the legislature/governorship.  Think the DeVos family, or how things are done in Russia and some of her former satellite states.

3)  It is always quite interesting &lt;i&gt;just how fast&lt;/i&gt; certain white people are to claim the racism of other groups of people.  Nobody but white men have &lt;strong&gt;state sanction&lt;/strong&gt; for racist policies.  E.g.  Of course black NFL players are often racist about who they&#039;d rather play for and about many other things, but white quarterbacks, as a direct result of unstated NFL policies, are the ones who are generally allowed to have lengthy starting careers longer than four or five years.  Get my drift?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)  I understood this in 2005, right or wrong:  To the extent that peak oil mattered, it mattered because oil is the base of the political economy of the modern nation state, and that most of the means of control elites have over the state is related to oil consumption, one way or another.  That variety of oil consumption, classically viewed through things like generous fuel subsidies in various third world countries, is hurt at the margins the most because of the direct impact of foreign exchange for the national central bank (or high indebtedness from increased cost of infrastructure building).  In places like Jordan (and Syria earlier, for that matter), the reduction of said subsidies without commensurate compensation elsewheres or at least greater economic freedom (ability to go into business, anti-monopoly actions in import-export/telecom, etc) has led to loss of legitimacy and greater questioning of disparate policies initially unquestioned.</p>
<p>2)  Gary Young is wrong, in the sense that he underestimates how jealous the teahadist are to competing policy initiatives in any queue.  He only needs to inspect the events in the Rust Belts and their MiniMussolini governerships.  If he does that, he will understand that he fundamentally flattens the landscape of the billionaire population&#8217;s metaphysics.  There are plenty of very rich people who are entirely committed to various crazy conservative memes, and who also benefit from a strong return simply by leading a political faction, never mind control of the legislature/governorship.  Think the DeVos family, or how things are done in Russia and some of her former satellite states.</p>
<p>3)  It is always quite interesting <i>just how fast</i> certain white people are to claim the racism of other groups of people.  Nobody but white men have <strong>state sanction</strong> for racist policies.  E.g.  Of course black NFL players are often racist about who they&#8217;d rather play for and about many other things, but white quarterbacks, as a direct result of unstated NFL policies, are the ones who are generally allowed to have lengthy starting careers longer than four or five years.  Get my drift?</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438335</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So, changes in voting laws, citizenship policy and immigration could easily put them into a death-spiral. Of course, that assumes that Dems act as ruthlessly as Reps, which seems unlikely.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a necessary assumption.  Restricting voting or citizenship for political gain requires ruthlessness (or a sincere belief that the people being restricted are less worthy of exercising those rights), but *expanding* those rights can be a completely principled stance that doesn&#039;t require that Democrats consider the political consequences at all.

Of course, if they do, that&#039;s just more incentive to do it.

Ultimately, though, immigration laws are a sideshow -- if the Republicans can&#039;t touch the _jus soli_ and the 14th amendment, the tide of immigrant potential-voters-if-they-get-a-path-to-citizenship will be followed by an even bigger tide of _American-born_ potential voters.

The short term may be fairly unpleasant, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, changes in voting laws, citizenship policy and immigration could easily put them into a death-spiral. Of course, that assumes that Dems act as ruthlessly as Reps, which seems unlikely.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a necessary assumption.  Restricting voting or citizenship for political gain requires ruthlessness (or a sincere belief that the people being restricted are less worthy of exercising those rights), but *expanding* those rights can be a completely principled stance that doesn&#8217;t require that Democrats consider the political consequences at all.</p>
<p>Of course, if they do, that&#8217;s just more incentive to do it.</p>
<p>Ultimately, though, immigration laws are a sideshow &#8212; if the Republicans can&#8217;t touch the _jus soli_ and the 14th amendment, the tide of immigrant potential-voters-if-they-get-a-path-to-citizenship will be followed by an even bigger tide of _American-born_ potential voters.</p>
<p>The short term may be fairly unpleasant, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438331</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Live in Los Angeles for a little bit. You may reconsider that opinion.&quot;

Not to mention discovering the existence of racist blacks, racist Hispanics, and racist Asians. They do exist, believe it or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Live in Los Angeles for a little bit. You may reconsider that opinion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not to mention discovering the existence of racist blacks, racist Hispanics, and racist Asians. They do exist, believe it or not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438319</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;&gt;&gt; Blacks, Hipanics, Asians and non-racist whites get along just fine together...

Live in Los Angeles for a little bit. You may reconsider that opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt; Blacks, Hipanics, Asians and non-racist whites get along just fine together&#8230;</p>
<p>Live in Los Angeles for a little bit. You may reconsider that opinion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438294</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peak Spite?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peak Spite?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ragweed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438290</link>
		<dc:creator>Ragweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last few comments have a point. &quot;Peak pale&quot; seems too mild - &quot;peak bitter&quot; may be a better term, though it gets us into a pint of confusion.

either way, this talk of pale gets us dangerously close to a pint of mild and bitters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last few comments have a point. &#8220;Peak pale&#8221; seems too mild &#8211; &#8220;peak bitter&#8221; may be a better term, though it gets us into a pint of confusion.</p>
<p>either way, this talk of pale gets us dangerously close to a pint of mild and bitters.</p>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438271</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;Peak bitter&#039; might work better as a phrase anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Peak bitter&#8217; might work better as a phrase anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438263</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh thank god, I was afraid that world production of pale ale was reaching some kind of inexorable limit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh thank god, I was afraid that world production of pale ale was reaching some kind of inexorable limit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438259</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But to get enhanced voter recovery, you need to increase your intensity of effort per vote - and you often have to pump down some pretty toxic stuff to get it out, which is liable to ooze back up to the surface and cause other, worse, problems in the long run.

OK, I think I&#039;ve got to the metaphor shear point now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But to get enhanced voter recovery, you need to increase your intensity of effort per vote &#8211; and you often have to pump down some pretty toxic stuff to get it out, which is liable to ooze back up to the surface and cause other, worse, problems in the long run.</p>
<p>OK, I think I&#8217;ve got to the metaphor shear point now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mpowell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438255</link>
		<dc:creator>mpowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Glen has the basic right of it.  My take is that the next 10 years will be pretty high leverage years in a political sense.  The tail risk here is a South Africa like apartheid regime developing.  It would probably be self-perpetuating in a similar fashion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Glen has the basic right of it.  My take is that the next 10 years will be pretty high leverage years in a political sense.  The tail risk here is a South Africa like apartheid regime developing.  It would probably be self-perpetuating in a similar fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: coulter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2012/12/13/peak-pale/comment-page-1/#comment-438239</link>
		<dc:creator>coulter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=26930#comment-438239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Blacks, Hipanics, Asians and non-racist whites get along just fine together, because to us, these are just words, arbitrary categories that don’t connote actually distinct groups with competing interests.&quot;

You don&#039;t do much in Chicago or LA city politics I gather?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Blacks, Hipanics, Asians and non-racist whites get along just fine together, because to us, these are just words, arbitrary categories that don’t connote actually distinct groups with competing interests.&#8221;</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t do much in Chicago or LA city politics I gather?</p>
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