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	<title>Comments on: The big issues in macroeconomics: the fiscal multiplier</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: reason</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-448199</link>
		<dc:creator>reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-448199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nathanael @57
you got it just about right up the last sentence:
&quot;It does consistently transfer money from the poor to the rich, which rather explains its political popularity.&quot;

No it doesn&#039;t transfer money from the poor to the rich (the act of borrowing does PRECISELY the opposite). What it does is transfer WEALTH from the poor to the rich.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathanael @57<br />
you got it just about right up the last sentence:<br />
&#8220;It does consistently transfer money from the poor to the rich, which rather explains its political popularity.&#8221;</p>
<p>No it doesn&#8217;t transfer money from the poor to the rich (the act of borrowing does PRECISELY the opposite). What it does is transfer WEALTH from the poor to the rich.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-445249</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 00:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-445249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Martin Bento @51: important points.  It seems to me that Fed independence has been a complete, unmitigated failure.  We need to go back to monetizing the debt like we did in previous administrations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin Bento @51: important points.  It seems to me that Fed independence has been a complete, unmitigated failure.  We need to go back to monetizing the debt like we did in previous administrations.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-445245</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 00:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-445245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would describe the situation in much simpler terms.

Unemployment can be caused by:
(1) Lack of (unconstrained) demand for work product.  This would be the world of Star Trek: The Next Generation and its replicators.  This has probably never happened.
(2) Lack of demand for the work product produceable by the people who are unemployed; in other words, skills mismatch.  This happens sometimes but is clearly not happening during recessions, as this would involve massive overdemand for another group of workers, which isn&#039;t happening in recessions.
(3) Missing cofactors of production. For instance, suppose every product requires oil as well as labor to manufacture, and there&#039;s an oil shortage.  The manufacturers raise their prices due to the oil shortage, and keep doing so until demand drops to meet supply -- but at that point there are lots of unemployed people, because there just isn&#039;t enough oil to keep them busy.  This may have happened during the &#039;70s in the US but also seems rare.  It would be associated with inflation.
(4) Shortage of money in the hands of average people.  Recall that most goods and services are bought by poor to middle class people; one very rich person is almost never capable of making up for a drop in purchasing by thousands of poor people.  This means that demand is constrained by the poverty of the general population.  This happens when businesses are not following Ford&#039;s rule (&quot;I pay my workers enough to buy a Ford&quot;).  The solution is to put wealth in the hands of the population, by one means or another: when done by government, this is always called &quot;fiscal policy&quot;.  This is the *most common* sort of recession and is associated with deflation.

&quot;Monetary policy&quot; does sort of involve putting money into the hands of the population, but involves forcing them to take on &quot;debt&quot; in exchange for getting the money -- and only under certain circumstances will they be able to pay back that debt; eventually they will be unable to take on more debt due to the interest costs and monetary policy will be useless.  Monetary policy has no virtues over fiscal policy except that contraction can be done quickly.  (Is this actually a virtue?)  It does consistently transfer money from the poor to the rich, which rather explains its political popularity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would describe the situation in much simpler terms.</p>
<p>Unemployment can be caused by:<br />
(1) Lack of (unconstrained) demand for work product.  This would be the world of Star Trek: The Next Generation and its replicators.  This has probably never happened.<br />
(2) Lack of demand for the work product produceable by the people who are unemployed; in other words, skills mismatch.  This happens sometimes but is clearly not happening during recessions, as this would involve massive overdemand for another group of workers, which isn&#8217;t happening in recessions.<br />
(3) Missing cofactors of production. For instance, suppose every product requires oil as well as labor to manufacture, and there&#8217;s an oil shortage.  The manufacturers raise their prices due to the oil shortage, and keep doing so until demand drops to meet supply &#8212; but at that point there are lots of unemployed people, because there just isn&#8217;t enough oil to keep them busy.  This may have happened during the &#8217;70s in the US but also seems rare.  It would be associated with inflation.<br />
(4) Shortage of money in the hands of average people.  Recall that most goods and services are bought by poor to middle class people; one very rich person is almost never capable of making up for a drop in purchasing by thousands of poor people.  This means that demand is constrained by the poverty of the general population.  This happens when businesses are not following Ford&#8217;s rule (&#8220;I pay my workers enough to buy a Ford&#8221;).  The solution is to put wealth in the hands of the population, by one means or another: when done by government, this is always called &#8220;fiscal policy&#8221;.  This is the *most common* sort of recession and is associated with deflation.</p>
<p>&#8220;Monetary policy&#8221; does sort of involve putting money into the hands of the population, but involves forcing them to take on &#8220;debt&#8221; in exchange for getting the money &#8212; and only under certain circumstances will they be able to pay back that debt; eventually they will be unable to take on more debt due to the interest costs and monetary policy will be useless.  Monetary policy has no virtues over fiscal policy except that contraction can be done quickly.  (Is this actually a virtue?)  It does consistently transfer money from the poor to the rich, which rather explains its political popularity.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter T</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444955</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 04:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[as so often, the Onion captures the debate best:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-treasury-cowboy-claims-something-done-spooked-e,29850/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as so often, the Onion captures the debate best:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-treasury-cowboy-claims-something-done-spooked-e,29850/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-treasury-cowboy-claims-something-done-spooked-e,29850/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Amateur</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Amateur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 00:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The question of unemployment is answered in ECO 1, in the production function:
People stay unemployed because demand is satisfied with a mix of capital and labor that leaves people redundant.
Why the cost of labor does not drop to recover balance, is the matter of sufficient studies. 
But Monetary stimulus clearly works against employment, as it makes capital cheaper.
Even with a neutral monetary policy, capital tends to become ever cheaper, because of the accumulation of long lasting capital goods and technological progress.

Demand stimulus? Little if any additional demand is created by monetary stimulus, after rates get close to zero.
So the tools are only two:
Measures to reduce cost of labor (highly impolitical and with backloaded, small effect), and
Fiscal spending financed without crowding out, that is, with Central Bank printing. There are plenty of public goods in short supply, from education to environment, from subways to hospitals, from urban development to safety.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question of unemployment is answered in ECO 1, in the production function:<br />
People stay unemployed because demand is satisfied with a mix of capital and labor that leaves people redundant.<br />
Why the cost of labor does not drop to recover balance, is the matter of sufficient studies.<br />
But Monetary stimulus clearly works against employment, as it makes capital cheaper.<br />
Even with a neutral monetary policy, capital tends to become ever cheaper, because of the accumulation of long lasting capital goods and technological progress.</p>
<p>Demand stimulus? Little if any additional demand is created by monetary stimulus, after rates get close to zero.<br />
So the tools are only two:<br />
Measures to reduce cost of labor (highly impolitical and with backloaded, small effect), and<br />
Fiscal spending financed without crowding out, that is, with Central Bank printing. There are plenty of public goods in short supply, from education to environment, from subways to hospitals, from urban development to safety.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter T</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444865</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2013 00:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444865</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barry

By &quot;not interested in the data&quot; I don&#039;t mean no appeal to empirical evidence - Krugman and those he cites do this a lot. I mean that economics seems  averse to actually getting into and assimilating the enormous amounts of information about behaviour over time, the relations of economic movements to particular social formations, what actually happens inside families or corporations and so on. There is some very good economic history, but it seems distant from the main run of professional argument. Marx set a standard here which has been very much neglected since.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry</p>
<p>By &#8220;not interested in the data&#8221; I don&#8217;t mean no appeal to empirical evidence &#8211; Krugman and those he cites do this a lot. I mean that economics seems  averse to actually getting into and assimilating the enormous amounts of information about behaviour over time, the relations of economic movements to particular social formations, what actually happens inside families or corporations and so on. There is some very good economic history, but it seems distant from the main run of professional argument. Marx set a standard here which has been very much neglected since.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444856</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[47: that makes sense, but not a zero multiplier.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>47: that makes sense, but not a zero multiplier.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Bento</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444422</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Bento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 18:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW, prior to 1951 the Fed not only routinely monetized the national debt, it did so effectively under orders from the Treasury. The 1951 accord that gave it the right (not obligation) to refuse to monetize government debt was largely motivated by concern with excessive increase in private credit and inflation. The inflation rate of such concern was around 3%.  Meanwhile, we are in the aftermath of an utterly irresponsible expansion of private credit that the Fed enabled and explicitly encouraged (Greenspan directly told people who stayed in old-fashioned fixed mortgages that they were being irrational). As argued in the other thread, even the great inflation taming of the 80s and 90s can be seen at least in part as inflation diversion from consumer goods and wages to assets. Given all this, it&#039;s not clear to me that the case for Fed independence made at the time was all that good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, prior to 1951 the Fed not only routinely monetized the national debt, it did so effectively under orders from the Treasury. The 1951 accord that gave it the right (not obligation) to refuse to monetize government debt was largely motivated by concern with excessive increase in private credit and inflation. The inflation rate of such concern was around 3%.  Meanwhile, we are in the aftermath of an utterly irresponsible expansion of private credit that the Fed enabled and explicitly encouraged (Greenspan directly told people who stayed in old-fashioned fixed mortgages that they were being irrational). As argued in the other thread, even the great inflation taming of the 80s and 90s can be seen at least in part as inflation diversion from consumer goods and wages to assets. Given all this, it&#8217;s not clear to me that the case for Fed independence made at the time was all that good.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-2/#comment-444090</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-444090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter @46:  &quot; But they don’t seem very interested in the data &quot;

Please read Krugman for a start, and then read those to whom he links approvingly.  Lots and lots of uses of the data, and lots and lots of consideration on the nature of the stimulus.

The two sides are not the same; that&#039;s the first lesson from the Crash.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter @46:  &#8221; But they don’t seem very interested in the data &#8220;</p>
<p>Please read Krugman for a start, and then read those to whom he links approvingly.  Lots and lots of uses of the data, and lots and lots of consideration on the nature of the stimulus.</p>
<p>The two sides are not the same; that&#8217;s the first lesson from the Crash.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyan Sinha</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-443576</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyan Sinha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 12:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-443576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You left out one major reason why the debate about fiscal policy goes nowhere - it&#039;s because one side has an ideological bias against any kind of &quot;collective&quot; expenditure in the face of a liquidity trap where monetary policy has lower potency. 
If government is really the only means to bring about the increase in AD (since,  at the individual level, it is rational to save more given the negative shock to income and the increase in its volatility) but you believe that it is a road to (a) waste, fraud and abuse and (b) the slippery slope to serfdom, then the economics doesn&#039;t really matter, does it? The Classicals are solving an entirely different optimization problem than the rest of us. All their arguments are elaborate contraptions to work back from the conclusion - government spending is bad, and how better to convince others of the merits of your case than to conclude that it simply doesn&#039;t work, so why even bother?

The reason this debate is barren is because it is not about how society can create a program of higher AD effectively It&#039;s especially hard when the policy makers on the classical side rely on shibboleths about the evils of &quot;collectivism&quot; and government spending. I am sorry to say the track record of the current US administration is not that much better in this regard. 

Until government spending becomes &quot; respectable&quot; again, there will never be enough traction to drive the academic debate on fiscal multipliers forward, in my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You left out one major reason why the debate about fiscal policy goes nowhere &#8211; it&#8217;s because one side has an ideological bias against any kind of &#8220;collective&#8221; expenditure in the face of a liquidity trap where monetary policy has lower potency.<br />
If government is really the only means to bring about the increase in AD (since,  at the individual level, it is rational to save more given the negative shock to income and the increase in its volatility) but you believe that it is a road to (a) waste, fraud and abuse and (b) the slippery slope to serfdom, then the economics doesn&#8217;t really matter, does it? The Classicals are solving an entirely different optimization problem than the rest of us. All their arguments are elaborate contraptions to work back from the conclusion &#8211; government spending is bad, and how better to convince others of the merits of your case than to conclude that it simply doesn&#8217;t work, so why even bother?</p>
<p>The reason this debate is barren is because it is not about how society can create a program of higher AD effectively It&#8217;s especially hard when the policy makers on the classical side rely on shibboleths about the evils of &#8220;collectivism&#8221; and government spending. I am sorry to say the track record of the current US administration is not that much better in this regard. </p>
<p>Until government spending becomes &#8221; respectable&#8221; again, there will never be enough traction to drive the academic debate on fiscal multipliers forward, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Bento</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-443125</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Bento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 10:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-443125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PGD, 

On the technical issue, the Fed is purchasing these treasuries by printing money. It has been purchasing MBS&#039;s in the same way for years now. Meanwhile, whatever money it has left over after paying its bills and the guaranteed return to the member banks is supposed to be given to Treasury anyway. I think any balancing of assets and liabilities at an institution that has unlimited ability to manufacture assets from thin air, but also a perpetual blanket liability that can expand or contract arbitrarily, has to be considered accounting kabuki (tm).

On the political issue, first of all, loss of Fed independence is from my standpoint a feature. I don&#039;t think an institution with the degree of power that is held at the Fed by commercial entities has any business running the economy in a democracy. Of course, the Fed will not see it this way.

Second, there is a real problem with regard deliberate default on the debt as a &quot;fiscal controversy&quot;. The fiscal controversy was settled when Congress passed the budget. The question here is whether the government can deliberately choose to disobey its own laws, since the debt we are discussing is a legal obligation. Whether the government has to obey its own laws should not be considered a normal political controversy. If the government steps deliberately and non-trivially outside its own law, it has become a fundamentally different kind of government. Therefore, the existence of such a controversy constitutes a Constitutional crisis, since the legislative branch is simultaneously requiring and prohibiting that the executive spend money. This is particularly so since there is no external force compelling this action. The crisis is being deliberately engineered.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PGD, </p>
<p>On the technical issue, the Fed is purchasing these treasuries by printing money. It has been purchasing MBS&#8217;s in the same way for years now. Meanwhile, whatever money it has left over after paying its bills and the guaranteed return to the member banks is supposed to be given to Treasury anyway. I think any balancing of assets and liabilities at an institution that has unlimited ability to manufacture assets from thin air, but also a perpetual blanket liability that can expand or contract arbitrarily, has to be considered accounting kabuki &#8482;.</p>
<p>On the political issue, first of all, loss of Fed independence is from my standpoint a feature. I don&#8217;t think an institution with the degree of power that is held at the Fed by commercial entities has any business running the economy in a democracy. Of course, the Fed will not see it this way.</p>
<p>Second, there is a real problem with regard deliberate default on the debt as a &#8220;fiscal controversy&#8221;. The fiscal controversy was settled when Congress passed the budget. The question here is whether the government can deliberately choose to disobey its own laws, since the debt we are discussing is a legal obligation. Whether the government has to obey its own laws should not be considered a normal political controversy. If the government steps deliberately and non-trivially outside its own law, it has become a fundamentally different kind of government. Therefore, the existence of such a controversy constitutes a Constitutional crisis, since the legislative branch is simultaneously requiring and prohibiting that the executive spend money. This is particularly so since there is no external force compelling this action. The crisis is being deliberately engineered.</p>
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		<title>By: PGD</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-442689</link>
		<dc:creator>PGD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 08:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-442689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nahim @4 goes well with Peter @36 -- a fundamental issue here is economists refusal to admit the narrative / historical dimension of their discipline, the fact that it should be about the particular effects of particular actions understood in a particular context, with the output being not universal scientific laws but better informed decisionmaking. There is no contradiction in using quantitative analysis or modeling in such an effort.

&lt;i&gt; Meanwhile, the Repubs are threatening to bring the whole house down over a debt ceiling, while the Fed is now buying treasuries. The Fed hasn’t gone for full monetization in that they are not burning the treasuries, so it is still, on paper, debt, and they still presumably plan to resell them at some point. But that money is supposed to go back to the Treasury anyway, so the Fed could just write it off, which, ISTM (someone please tell me if there is some reason this is not true), would reduce the outstanding federal debt and keep us below the ceiling. &lt;/i&gt;

Two issues here, a technical one and a political one. The technical one is that like any bank, the Fed has to maintain a balance sheet that equates assets and liabilities (or has traditionally maintained one, not sure if it is a legal requirement). If the Fed simply cancels debt or writes it off assets will fall below liabilities, making the Fed technically insolvent. The political issue is that if the Fed tries to use its monetary powers to take sides in a key fiscal controversy and empower one political side over another then it will likely lose its political independence, or at least create great danger of such. At the least Congress would eventually restrict its powers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nahim @4 goes well with Peter @36 &#8212; a fundamental issue here is economists refusal to admit the narrative / historical dimension of their discipline, the fact that it should be about the particular effects of particular actions understood in a particular context, with the output being not universal scientific laws but better informed decisionmaking. There is no contradiction in using quantitative analysis or modeling in such an effort.</p>
<p><i> Meanwhile, the Repubs are threatening to bring the whole house down over a debt ceiling, while the Fed is now buying treasuries. The Fed hasn’t gone for full monetization in that they are not burning the treasuries, so it is still, on paper, debt, and they still presumably plan to resell them at some point. But that money is supposed to go back to the Treasury anyway, so the Fed could just write it off, which, ISTM (someone please tell me if there is some reason this is not true), would reduce the outstanding federal debt and keep us below the ceiling. </i></p>
<p>Two issues here, a technical one and a political one. The technical one is that like any bank, the Fed has to maintain a balance sheet that equates assets and liabilities (or has traditionally maintained one, not sure if it is a legal requirement). If the Fed simply cancels debt or writes it off assets will fall below liabilities, making the Fed technically insolvent. The political issue is that if the Fed tries to use its monetary powers to take sides in a key fiscal controversy and empower one political side over another then it will likely lose its political independence, or at least create great danger of such. At the least Congress would eventually restrict its powers.</p>
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		<title>By: AM</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-442681</link>
		<dc:creator>AM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 06:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-442681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@anderson: my understanding is:

multiplier = (aggregate benefit)/(gov&#039;t stimulus)

this is &gt;1 if AB&gt;GS, 1 if AB=GS, and &lt;1 if AB&lt;GS.

now, if the economy gets WORSE as a result of the government spending, then AB is negative, so the multiplier would indeed be negative]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@anderson: my understanding is:</p>
<p>multiplier = (aggregate benefit)/(gov&#8217;t stimulus)</p>
<p>this is &gt;1 if AB&gt;GS, 1 if AB=GS, and &lt;1 if AB&lt;GS.</p>
<p>now, if the economy gets WORSE as a result of the government spending, then AB is negative, so the multiplier would indeed be negative</p>
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		<title>By: Peter T</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-442668</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-442668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t have any good analogy for economics. Many of the people engaged in it seem both skilled and intelligent, and there is lots of interesting data that would bear on the problems they engage. But they don&#039;t seem very interested in the data - the kinds of aggregates discussed here would just be the starting point in any other intellectual endeavour. Still less would the debate be continued for decades in high abstraction, with occasional anecdotes about mattresses or corner stores thrown in for light relief. Surely what kind of stimulus, in what context, matters. Is it Hoover dam? Tiger tanks? Clean water for those who have none? Or better helicopters for CEOs?

Others disciplines looking at complex, path-dependent systems take the history of those systems seriously. People get prizes in climate science for making better guesses about the climate of the Jurassic, because the answer further constrains the field of possible answers to current questions. Likewise biologists take evolution seriously enough to study what evolved, where, how. Economists seem to think the answers lie in some platonic void, or in the application of some grand universal to some tiny patch of behaviour - an essentially amateur approach.

I don&#039;t know what might bring the discipline back into some more relevant frame - I am not sure that there is any path forward starting from where it is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have any good analogy for economics. Many of the people engaged in it seem both skilled and intelligent, and there is lots of interesting data that would bear on the problems they engage. But they don&#8217;t seem very interested in the data &#8211; the kinds of aggregates discussed here would just be the starting point in any other intellectual endeavour. Still less would the debate be continued for decades in high abstraction, with occasional anecdotes about mattresses or corner stores thrown in for light relief. Surely what kind of stimulus, in what context, matters. Is it Hoover dam? Tiger tanks? Clean water for those who have none? Or better helicopters for CEOs?</p>
<p>Others disciplines looking at complex, path-dependent systems take the history of those systems seriously. People get prizes in climate science for making better guesses about the climate of the Jurassic, because the answer further constrains the field of possible answers to current questions. Likewise biologists take evolution seriously enough to study what evolved, where, how. Economists seem to think the answers lie in some platonic void, or in the application of some grand universal to some tiny patch of behaviour &#8211; an essentially amateur approach.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what might bring the discipline back into some more relevant frame &#8211; I am not sure that there is any path forward starting from where it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Wilder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/04/the-big-issues-in-macroeconomics-the-fiscal-multiplier/comment-page-1/#comment-442665</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Wilder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 23:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27102#comment-442665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris Mealy @ 43  
The kind of highly abstract and analytic debate of the models, which mainstream economics engages in, has narrowed the focus of policy analysis to a very abstract control model of one interest rate.

Things have loosened up a lot post-GFC, but before 2008, suggesting such a small variation as having the Fed buy or sell long-term bonds with an eye to affecting long rates relative to short, was treated as heresy.  Banking regulation was completely neglected, of course, though that is the largest part of what a central bank traditionally does.  Capital controls?  Forget about it!

It is past obvious that the world needs to hold a Bretton Woods Redux conference and devise some kind of multipolar currency and managed trade system, but, instead, we&#039;ll probably ride the U.S. dollar and U.S. hegemony right into oblivion for both, but none of our priestly experts know their jobs.  (Can you imagine hiring any of the imbeciles, who gave the world the Euro, to devise a post-dollar global regime?  No one else is credentialed, though.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Mealy @ 43<br />
The kind of highly abstract and analytic debate of the models, which mainstream economics engages in, has narrowed the focus of policy analysis to a very abstract control model of one interest rate.</p>
<p>Things have loosened up a lot post-GFC, but before 2008, suggesting such a small variation as having the Fed buy or sell long-term bonds with an eye to affecting long rates relative to short, was treated as heresy.  Banking regulation was completely neglected, of course, though that is the largest part of what a central bank traditionally does.  Capital controls?  Forget about it!</p>
<p>It is past obvious that the world needs to hold a Bretton Woods Redux conference and devise some kind of multipolar currency and managed trade system, but, instead, we&#8217;ll probably ride the U.S. dollar and U.S. hegemony right into oblivion for both, but none of our priestly experts know their jobs.  (Can you imagine hiring any of the imbeciles, who gave the world the Euro, to devise a post-dollar global regime?  No one else is credentialed, though.)</p>
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