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	<title>Comments on: Invisible Men</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 01:44:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Wonks Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448871</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonks Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ragweed, I don&#039;t think drug &quot;abuse&quot; is responsible for that much of the incarcerated population. Drug dealing is. But I don&#039;t know where to find rates for drug dealing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ragweed, I don&#8217;t think drug &#8220;abuse&#8221; is responsible for that much of the incarcerated population. Drug dealing is. But I don&#8217;t know where to find rates for drug dealing.</p>
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		<title>By: R.Mutt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448672</link>
		<dc:creator>R.Mutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@26 Incarceration really has been decreasing a bit the last few years, see:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus11.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus11.pdf&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@26 Incarceration really has been decreasing a bit the last few years, see:<br />
<a href="http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus11.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus11.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: purple</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448657</link>
		<dc:creator>purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 06:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s one way to cut down on the unemployment rate, since our economic system is by its nature incapable of providing full employment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s one way to cut down on the unemployment rate, since our economic system is by its nature incapable of providing full employment.</p>
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		<title>By: parse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448620</link>
		<dc:creator>parse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 21:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Well, at least it looks like incarceration rates in the US might finally be turning around. It would be great if lead poisoning turns out to have been the big culprit and that it’s reduction has resulted in falling crime and hopefully now falling incarceration.&lt;/i&gt;

It would be nice to think so, but if I recall correctly one of the points made in &lt;i&gt;The New Jim Crow&lt;/i&gt; is that incarceration has been increasing for ten years while crime was falling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Well, at least it looks like incarceration rates in the US might finally be turning around. It would be great if lead poisoning turns out to have been the big culprit and that it’s reduction has resulted in falling crime and hopefully now falling incarceration.</i></p>
<p>It would be nice to think so, but if I recall correctly one of the points made in <i>The New Jim Crow</i> is that incarceration has been increasing for ten years while crime was falling.</p>
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		<title>By: rf</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448618</link>
		<dc:creator>rf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;So yeah, you could lie. But it’s clear they’re discincentivizing applications to the university, presumably under the guise of keeping the campus safe.&quot;

I don&#039;t disagree, but this is the way tthings are going, and I don&#039;t see any constituency willing to actually lobby for the rights of &#039;criminals&#039;. So best thing we can do is encourage a norm in favour of lying about convictions/jail time etc]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So yeah, you could lie. But it’s clear they’re discincentivizing applications to the university, presumably under the guise of keeping the campus safe.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree, but this is the way tthings are going, and I don&#8217;t see any constituency willing to actually lobby for the rights of &#8216;criminals&#8217;. So best thing we can do is encourage a norm in favour of lying about convictions/jail time etc</p>
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		<title>By: william c wesley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448615</link>
		<dc:creator>william c wesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When a nation wins a war it gets the spoils of war, we won world war II and so for a while Americans got it all. We have not won a war since so eventually the infusion of bounty dwindles, usually just as the population increases due to the exceptionally favorable conditions for raising children brought on by the bounty . The bounty we won in the mid 40&#039;s was running out by the mid 70&#039;s so the economically besieged middle class  population voted to incarcerate (3 strikes/ preset sentencing) almost the entire black population as well as any poor whites.
 I&#039;d be willing to bet the divide lines of white to black are not significant and that if statistics are spun for poverty alone you will find THAT to be the determining factor and not race. Fewer whites are poor so fewer got to prison, this is an attack against the poor regardless of race.
Its was all pure class fear,  pampered conquerors trying to shut out the rest from a diminishing trough of spoils, the motivation pure greed and economic paranoia
What is morally right never even enters the picture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a nation wins a war it gets the spoils of war, we won world war II and so for a while Americans got it all. We have not won a war since so eventually the infusion of bounty dwindles, usually just as the population increases due to the exceptionally favorable conditions for raising children brought on by the bounty . The bounty we won in the mid 40&#8242;s was running out by the mid 70&#8242;s so the economically besieged middle class  population voted to incarcerate (3 strikes/ preset sentencing) almost the entire black population as well as any poor whites.<br />
 I&#8217;d be willing to bet the divide lines of white to black are not significant and that if statistics are spun for poverty alone you will find THAT to be the determining factor and not race. Fewer whites are poor so fewer got to prison, this is an attack against the poor regardless of race.<br />
Its was all pure class fear,  pampered conquerors trying to shut out the rest from a diminishing trough of spoils, the motivation pure greed and economic paranoia<br />
What is morally right never even enters the picture.</p>
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		<title>By: R.Mutt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448603</link>
		<dc:creator>R.Mutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fortunately the country has an African-American President and an African-American Attorney General, who will certainly address this issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately the country has an African-American President and an African-American Attorney General, who will certainly address this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: faustusnotes</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448546</link>
		<dc:creator>faustusnotes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a very interesting post. I note that a lot of epidemiological and social science studies in the USA include &quot;race&quot; as a confounder in their analyses. I wonder how much that confounder variable is actually acting as a proxy for &quot;prison history&quot;? And I wonder if good research practice in the USA should include always asking about the prison history of survey respondents?

When I was recruiting staff in the UK I had an applicant declare their prison history. This was entirely voluntary on their part, I would have thought, and I was surprised they bothered, and it struck me as very sad that they should have to declare it at all. How can this not lead to discrimination against past prisoners? 

Australia allows prisoners to vote if they are serving less than 3 years, and those in for longer than 3 years regain the right upon release.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very interesting post. I note that a lot of epidemiological and social science studies in the USA include &#8220;race&#8221; as a confounder in their analyses. I wonder how much that confounder variable is actually acting as a proxy for &#8220;prison history&#8221;? And I wonder if good research practice in the USA should include always asking about the prison history of survey respondents?</p>
<p>When I was recruiting staff in the UK I had an applicant declare their prison history. This was entirely voluntary on their part, I would have thought, and I was surprised they bothered, and it struck me as very sad that they should have to declare it at all. How can this not lead to discrimination against past prisoners? </p>
<p>Australia allows prisoners to vote if they are serving less than 3 years, and those in for longer than 3 years regain the right upon release.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt M</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448508</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They want you to declare (including cases that may have resulted in probation or fine, like major traffic violations), and reserve the right to rescind an offer of admission if you don&#039;t tell them and they find out after the fact. They also include a question about misconduct at other institutions as well, and you&#039;d need to explain the violations.

So yeah, you could lie. But it&#039;s clear they&#039;re discincentivizing applications to the university, presumably under the guise of keeping the campus safe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They want you to declare (including cases that may have resulted in probation or fine, like major traffic violations), and reserve the right to rescind an offer of admission if you don&#8217;t tell them and they find out after the fact. They also include a question about misconduct at other institutions as well, and you&#8217;d need to explain the violations.</p>
<p>So yeah, you could lie. But it&#8217;s clear they&#8217;re discincentivizing applications to the university, presumably under the guise of keeping the campus safe.</p>
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		<title>By: rf</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448505</link>
		<dc:creator>rf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;my institution requires a declaration of criminal history for anyone applying to a graduate program.&quot;

They want a police spec or just for you to declare whether you do/dont have a record? If the second you just lie. Theyre not going to check]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;my institution requires a declaration of criminal history for anyone applying to a graduate program.&#8221;</p>
<p>They want a police spec or just for you to declare whether you do/dont have a record? If the second you just lie. Theyre not going to check</p>
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		<title>By: Matt M</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448504</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Similar to John Quiggin @ 12, my institution requires a declaration of criminal history for anyone applying to a graduate program.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Similar to John Quiggin @ 12, my institution requires a declaration of criminal history for anyone applying to a graduate program.</p>
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		<title>By: rmgosselin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448495</link>
		<dc:creator>rmgosselin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I teach a college class in Attica, which is waaaaaay out in the country, surrounded by plenty of nothing and nobody. Last semester, the students were bombarding me with questions about their peers at the &quot;regular&quot; campus, and one man asked, &quot;Are they as curious about us as we are about them?&quot; 

No. No, they&#039;re not.

The incarcerated population is known to &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; people, though: the upstate villages love the free labor and job opportunities for native sons &amp; daughters. Plus, there always seem to be attempts to use prisoners in election district chess, not unlike the Three Fifths Compromise of 1787. 

When the prison first opened, back in 1929-30, the state loved to report that the citizens of the town were thrilled, and were bringing books and all kinds of goodies to the new campers in their midst. Plus, the original design of the surrounding wall had it largely open in the front, giving the illusion of honesty and openness. That didn&#039;t last long.

One more thing: teaching &quot;The Cask of Amontillado&quot; there is a trip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I teach a college class in Attica, which is waaaaaay out in the country, surrounded by plenty of nothing and nobody. Last semester, the students were bombarding me with questions about their peers at the &#8220;regular&#8221; campus, and one man asked, &#8220;Are they as curious about us as we are about them?&#8221; </p>
<p>No. No, they&#8217;re not.</p>
<p>The incarcerated population is known to <i>some</i> people, though: the upstate villages love the free labor and job opportunities for native sons &amp; daughters. Plus, there always seem to be attempts to use prisoners in election district chess, not unlike the Three Fifths Compromise of 1787. </p>
<p>When the prison first opened, back in 1929-30, the state loved to report that the citizens of the town were thrilled, and were bringing books and all kinds of goodies to the new campers in their midst. Plus, the original design of the surrounding wall had it largely open in the front, giving the illusion of honesty and openness. That didn&#8217;t last long.</p>
<p>One more thing: teaching &#8220;The Cask of Amontillado&#8221; there is a trip.</p>
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		<title>By: Bloix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448490</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I made this point in a narrow context three years ago in response to a study that claimed that in recent years, men report being happier than women.  The study was taken up by a lot of noisy right-wingers who argued that it proved that feminism made women miserable.  A little arithmetic showed that the &quot;happiness gap&quot; went away if you assumed that (1) prisoners hadn&#039;t been interviewed and (2) people in prison are not too happy.  The implication is that no matter what you are studying, the percentage of people in prison is so high that it will affect your results - and this is particularly true when you are looking for gender, racial, or ethnic differences.

Here&#039;s what I wrote:

&quot;In 2008, just over 1% of the US adult population was in prison or jail - over 2.3 million people. Approximately 7% of them were women. That is, roughly 1.9% of adult men are incarcerated; and roughly 0.14% of adult women are incarcerated.  ...what happens if you add estimated results for prisoners to the survey results - that is, you increase the percentage of men who are &quot;not too happy&quot; by about 1.9% and increase the percentage of women who are &quot;not too happy&quot; by about 0.14?  As I read the graph reproduced in the post, the difference in the &quot;not too happy&quot; lines between men and women is less than 1%, so if prisoners were included the men&#039;s line would be higher than the women&#039;s line.&quot;

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1456]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made this point in a narrow context three years ago in response to a study that claimed that in recent years, men report being happier than women.  The study was taken up by a lot of noisy right-wingers who argued that it proved that feminism made women miserable.  A little arithmetic showed that the &#8220;happiness gap&#8221; went away if you assumed that (1) prisoners hadn&#8217;t been interviewed and (2) people in prison are not too happy.  The implication is that no matter what you are studying, the percentage of people in prison is so high that it will affect your results &#8211; and this is particularly true when you are looking for gender, racial, or ethnic differences.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;In 2008, just over 1% of the US adult population was in prison or jail &#8211; over 2.3 million people. Approximately 7% of them were women. That is, roughly 1.9% of adult men are incarcerated; and roughly 0.14% of adult women are incarcerated.  &#8230;what happens if you add estimated results for prisoners to the survey results &#8211; that is, you increase the percentage of men who are &#8220;not too happy&#8221; by about 1.9% and increase the percentage of women who are &#8220;not too happy&#8221; by about 0.14?  As I read the graph reproduced in the post, the difference in the &#8220;not too happy&#8221; lines between men and women is less than 1%, so if prisoners were included the men&#8217;s line would be higher than the women&#8217;s line.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1456" rel="nofollow">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1456</a></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448487</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Wikipedia entry on felony disenfranchisement is helpful:

“As of 2011, only two states, Kentucky and Virginia, continue to impose a lifelong denial of the right to vote to all citizens with a felony record, absent some extraordinary intervention by the Governor or state legislature. However, in Kentucky, a felon’s rights can now be restored after the completion of a restoration process to regain civil rights. In 2007, Florida moved to restore voting rights to convicted felons. In March 2011, however, Republican Governor Rick Scott reversed the 2007 reforms, making Florida the state with the most punitive law in terms of disenfranchising citizens with past felony convictions. In July 2005, Democratic Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack issued an executive order restoring the right to vote for all persons who have completed supervision. On October 31, 2005, Iowa’s Supreme Court upheld mass re-enfranchisement of ex-convicts. Nine other states disenfranchise felons for various lengths of time following their conviction. Except Maine and Vermont, every state prohibits felons from voting while in prison. 

Unlike most other laws that burden the right of citizens to vote based on some form of social status, felony disenfranchisement laws have been held to be constitutional. In Richardson v. Ramirez, the United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of felon disenfranchisement statutes, finding that the practice did not deny equal protection to disenfranchised voters. The Court looked to Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which proclaims that States which deny the vote to male citizens, except on the basis of ‘participation of rebellion, or other crime,’ will suffer a reduction in representation. Based on this language, the Court found that this amounted to an ‘affirmative sanction’ of the practice of felon disenfranchisement, and the 14th Amendment could not prohibit in one section that which is expressly authorized in another. However, many critics argue that Section 2 of the 14th Amendment merely allows, but does not represent an endorsement of, felony disenfranchisement statutes as constitutional in light of the equal protection clause and is limited only to the issue of reduced representation. The Court did rule, however, in Hunter v. Underwood 471 U.S. 222, 232 (1985) that a state’s felony disenfranchisement provision will violate Equal Protection if it can be demonstrated that the provision, as enacted, had ‘both [an] impermissible racial motivation and racially discriminatory impact.’ A felony disenfranchisement law, which on its face is indiscriminate in nature, cannot be invalidated by the Supreme Court unless its enforcement is proven to racially discriminate and to have been enacted with racially discriminatory animus.

Currently, over 5.3 million people in the United States are denied the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement.”

To keep up-to-date on this topic, one can consult The Sentencing Project: http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=133  

My bibliography and links on “punishment and prison” may interest those wanting to do some further reading and research: http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/11/toward-teaching-prison-lawand-a-bibliography-on-punishment-prison--1.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wikipedia entry on felony disenfranchisement is helpful:</p>
<p>“As of 2011, only two states, Kentucky and Virginia, continue to impose a lifelong denial of the right to vote to all citizens with a felony record, absent some extraordinary intervention by the Governor or state legislature. However, in Kentucky, a felon’s rights can now be restored after the completion of a restoration process to regain civil rights. In 2007, Florida moved to restore voting rights to convicted felons. In March 2011, however, Republican Governor Rick Scott reversed the 2007 reforms, making Florida the state with the most punitive law in terms of disenfranchising citizens with past felony convictions. In July 2005, Democratic Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack issued an executive order restoring the right to vote for all persons who have completed supervision. On October 31, 2005, Iowa’s Supreme Court upheld mass re-enfranchisement of ex-convicts. Nine other states disenfranchise felons for various lengths of time following their conviction. Except Maine and Vermont, every state prohibits felons from voting while in prison. </p>
<p>Unlike most other laws that burden the right of citizens to vote based on some form of social status, felony disenfranchisement laws have been held to be constitutional. In Richardson v. Ramirez, the United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of felon disenfranchisement statutes, finding that the practice did not deny equal protection to disenfranchised voters. The Court looked to Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which proclaims that States which deny the vote to male citizens, except on the basis of ‘participation of rebellion, or other crime,’ will suffer a reduction in representation. Based on this language, the Court found that this amounted to an ‘affirmative sanction’ of the practice of felon disenfranchisement, and the 14th Amendment could not prohibit in one section that which is expressly authorized in another. However, many critics argue that Section 2 of the 14th Amendment merely allows, but does not represent an endorsement of, felony disenfranchisement statutes as constitutional in light of the equal protection clause and is limited only to the issue of reduced representation. The Court did rule, however, in Hunter v. Underwood 471 U.S. 222, 232 (1985) that a state’s felony disenfranchisement provision will violate Equal Protection if it can be demonstrated that the provision, as enacted, had ‘both [an] impermissible racial motivation and racially discriminatory impact.’ A felony disenfranchisement law, which on its face is indiscriminate in nature, cannot be invalidated by the Supreme Court unless its enforcement is proven to racially discriminate and to have been enacted with racially discriminatory animus.</p>
<p>Currently, over 5.3 million people in the United States are denied the right to vote because of felony disenfranchisement.”</p>
<p>To keep up-to-date on this topic, one can consult The Sentencing Project: <a href="http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=133" rel="nofollow">http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=133</a>  </p>
<p>My bibliography and links on “punishment and prison” may interest those wanting to do some further reading and research: <a href="http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/11/toward-teaching-prison-lawand-a-bibliography-on-punishment-prison--1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2012/11/toward-teaching-prison-lawand-a-bibliography-on-punishment-prison&#8211;1.html</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/11/invisible-men/comment-page-1/#comment-448486</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27150#comment-448486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom- in the US a major impediment to such litigation is the section in the 14th Amendment which says that the right to vote can be limited only, &quot;for participation in rebellion, or other crime&quot;.  Now, it seems pretty reasonable to me to read the &quot;or other crime&quot; as meaning a crime related to rebellion, but that&#039;s not how it&#039;s been interpreted in the past, and because of legal practice in the US, that carries a lot of weight.  For the US as well, these laws are state laws, not federal- different states have different rules on felon disenfranchisement, and it could well be that someone could bring a challenge under a state constitution.  I don&#039;t know about those very much.  But the standard interpretation of this clause is that it allows (but doesn&#039;t require) states to restrict the voting rights of those convicted of crimes, or at least felonies.  It seems very unlikely to change to me, given the current court.  (I suspect, but am not sure, that it would be very hard to change this nationally in the US via legislation- I don&#039;t mean in the sense that it would be hard for such a bill to pass, though that&#039;s true, too, but that such a bill would, I think, face serious constitutional challenges, given the court we have now, but I&#039;d be glad to hear from people w/ more knowledge than me on voting rights as to whether this is right.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom- in the US a major impediment to such litigation is the section in the 14th Amendment which says that the right to vote can be limited only, &#8220;for participation in rebellion, or other crime&#8221;.  Now, it seems pretty reasonable to me to read the &#8220;or other crime&#8221; as meaning a crime related to rebellion, but that&#8217;s not how it&#8217;s been interpreted in the past, and because of legal practice in the US, that carries a lot of weight.  For the US as well, these laws are state laws, not federal- different states have different rules on felon disenfranchisement, and it could well be that someone could bring a challenge under a state constitution.  I don&#8217;t know about those very much.  But the standard interpretation of this clause is that it allows (but doesn&#8217;t require) states to restrict the voting rights of those convicted of crimes, or at least felonies.  It seems very unlikely to change to me, given the current court.  (I suspect, but am not sure, that it would be very hard to change this nationally in the US via legislation- I don&#8217;t mean in the sense that it would be hard for such a bill to pass, though that&#8217;s true, too, but that such a bill would, I think, face serious constitutional challenges, given the court we have now, but I&#8217;d be glad to hear from people w/ more knowledge than me on voting rights as to whether this is right.)</p>
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