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	<title>Comments on: Ronald Dworkin has died</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453300</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Can anyone name a legal scholar who is &quot;lucid&quot;? Volokh comes to mind, when he endorsed state sponsored torture. That didn&#039;t end well. The incentives seem to be aligned with, &quot;well, that&#039;s complicated.&quot; nb: I find Volokh&#039;s notion horrifying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone name a legal scholar who is &#8220;lucid&#8221;? Volokh comes to mind, when he endorsed state sponsored torture. That didn&#8217;t end well. The incentives seem to be aligned with, &#8220;well, that&#8217;s complicated.&#8221; nb: I find Volokh&#8217;s notion horrifying.</p>
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		<title>By: Ovidiu Tudorache</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453248</link>
		<dc:creator>Ovidiu Tudorache</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Light a candle in memory of Ronald Dworkin here: https://www.icandle.info/persons/14073341]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Light a candle in memory of Ronald Dworkin here: <a href="https://www.icandle.info/persons/14073341" rel="nofollow">https://www.icandle.info/persons/14073341</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453230</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 00:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Touche!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touche!</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453228</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I should say, I don’t at all think that Dworkin was trying to put one over on people, just that I think that sometimes the fluidity of his writing filled in gaps in his arguments.&lt;/i&gt;

At least he didn&#039;t tell too many &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/01/left-behind/&quot; / rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;jokes&lt;/a&gt;... ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I should say, I don’t at all think that Dworkin was trying to put one over on people, just that I think that sometimes the fluidity of his writing filled in gaps in his arguments.</i></p>
<p>At least he didn&#8217;t tell too many <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/01/left-behind/" / rel="nofollow">jokes</a>&#8230; ;)</p>
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		<title>By: CJColucci</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453222</link>
		<dc:creator>CJColucci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;the underlying arguments were very weak unless you were predisposed to his conclusions&lt;/i&gt;

   That is true of much highly-regarded legal scholarship. So much the worse for highly-regarded legal scholarship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the underlying arguments were very weak unless you were predisposed to his conclusions</i></p>
<p>   That is true of much highly-regarded legal scholarship. So much the worse for highly-regarded legal scholarship.</p>
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		<title>By: LFC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453216</link>
		<dc:creator>LFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I read Law&#039;s Empire at the end of the 80&#039;s, as I recall, and I found it quite clear, which is what I meant by lucid -- I was not in school at the time, so I wasn&#039;t reading it as a student trying to dissect and delve into every nuance and aspect of the arguments. I&#039;m not sure I ended up being convinced by what I took to be the position, but I did understand it, or at least I thought I did at the time.

I haven&#039;t read a great deal of legal philosophy/jurisprudence, but I&#039;ve read enough contemporary academic work in the social sciences and in political theory to be able to say with some confidence that there is a lot of &lt;i&gt;bad writing&lt;/i&gt; out there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Law&#8217;s Empire at the end of the 80&#8242;s, as I recall, and I found it quite clear, which is what I meant by lucid &#8212; I was not in school at the time, so I wasn&#8217;t reading it as a student trying to dissect and delve into every nuance and aspect of the arguments. I&#8217;m not sure I ended up being convinced by what I took to be the position, but I did understand it, or at least I thought I did at the time.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read a great deal of legal philosophy/jurisprudence, but I&#8217;ve read enough contemporary academic work in the social sciences and in political theory to be able to say with some confidence that there is a lot of <i>bad writing</i> out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Donal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453212</link>
		<dc:creator>Donal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Matt 

I have to agree with all that Matt has said about Dworkin. After reading Law&#039;s Empire for a long time, quite intensely, I repeatedly struggled to fully understand Dworkin&#039;s position. I would dispute any suggestion that Dworkin was a lucid writer. Certainly Dworkin is an entertaining and often engaging writer, but that isn&#039;t the same as being lucid. Many people present themselves as understanding Dworkin: I have to say that I always doubt the veracity of any such claims made.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Matt </p>
<p>I have to agree with all that Matt has said about Dworkin. After reading Law&#8217;s Empire for a long time, quite intensely, I repeatedly struggled to fully understand Dworkin&#8217;s position. I would dispute any suggestion that Dworkin was a lucid writer. Certainly Dworkin is an entertaining and often engaging writer, but that isn&#8217;t the same as being lucid. Many people present themselves as understanding Dworkin: I have to say that I always doubt the veracity of any such claims made.</p>
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		<title>By: NW</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453211</link>
		<dc:creator>NW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to agree with Matt - whilst we certainly need better writers in legal and political philosophy, I&#039;ve always found Dworkin (in his legal philosophy especially) to be a very &#039;slippery&#039; writer: I always find it particularly hard to pin down *exactly* what he&#039;s saying. The way he deflected responses to his work was particularly frustrating.

Nevertheless, there&#039;s no doubting his immense influence and lifelong contribution to both fields. Truly a sad loss to philosophy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Matt &#8211; whilst we certainly need better writers in legal and political philosophy, I&#8217;ve always found Dworkin (in his legal philosophy especially) to be a very &#8216;slippery&#8217; writer: I always find it particularly hard to pin down *exactly* what he&#8217;s saying. The way he deflected responses to his work was particularly frustrating.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, there&#8217;s no doubting his immense influence and lifelong contribution to both fields. Truly a sad loss to philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: Brb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453210</link>
		<dc:creator>Brb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The above comment is pretty generous, which I suppose is appropriate.

I studied more Dworkin than I cared to under Dyzenhaus. I hated it.  I would actually go so far as to say that he often was trying to put one  over on the reader, and that the underlying arguments were very weak unless you were predisposed to his conclusions. The popularity of his jurisprudence is IMO largely a function of it being very convenient and flattering for judges and/or the religious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above comment is pretty generous, which I suppose is appropriate.</p>
<p>I studied more Dworkin than I cared to under Dyzenhaus. I hated it.  I would actually go so far as to say that he often was trying to put one  over on the reader, and that the underlying arguments were very weak unless you were predisposed to his conclusions. The popularity of his jurisprudence is IMO largely a function of it being very convenient and flattering for judges and/or the religious.</p>
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		<title>By: LFC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453208</link>
		<dc:creator>LFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 19:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Matt

That could be. You&#039;ve read a lot more Dworkin than I have, I&#039;m sure. But I&#039;d rather read a good writer and &quot;take special care...not to be carried along.&quot; Not everyone needs to write as fluidly as he did, and not everyone should be expected to -- for one thing, some subjects don&#039;t lend themselves to a such a graceful, fluent exposition. But especially given the atrocious, truly abominable level of copyediting at some university presses and other presses these days, I think academic writers need to pay even more attention to their prose than they had to in the past.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt</p>
<p>That could be. You&#8217;ve read a lot more Dworkin than I have, I&#8217;m sure. But I&#8217;d rather read a good writer and &#8220;take special care&#8230;not to be carried along.&#8221; Not everyone needs to write as fluidly as he did, and not everyone should be expected to &#8212; for one thing, some subjects don&#8217;t lend themselves to a such a graceful, fluent exposition. But especially given the atrocious, truly abominable level of copyediting at some university presses and other presses these days, I think academic writers need to pay even more attention to their prose than they had to in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453207</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Dworkin was among other things a *very* lucid writer&lt;/i&gt;

This was true, but more and more as time went by, I wondered if it was all for the good.  The more I read him, the more I found it hard to figure out what, exactly, the argument was, at least at certain crucial points, and why I had thought I&#039;d seen it before.  I&#039;ve come to suspect that his very fluid writing sometimes covered up the weaker of his arguments, and made people, including me, miss the gaps.  Supposedly Henry Sidgwick, especially later in his career, deliberately tried to strip all artifice from his writing, so that if people were convinced by it, it would have to be by the argument itself, and not the form.  That&#039;s perhaps going a bit too far, but I do think there is reason to take special care when reading very good writers, so as not to be carried along by the form rather than the substance.  
(I should say, I don&#039;t at all think that Dworkin was trying to put one over on people, just that I think that sometimes the fluidity of his writing filled in gaps in his arguments.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Dworkin was among other things a *very* lucid writer</i></p>
<p>This was true, but more and more as time went by, I wondered if it was all for the good.  The more I read him, the more I found it hard to figure out what, exactly, the argument was, at least at certain crucial points, and why I had thought I&#8217;d seen it before.  I&#8217;ve come to suspect that his very fluid writing sometimes covered up the weaker of his arguments, and made people, including me, miss the gaps.  Supposedly Henry Sidgwick, especially later in his career, deliberately tried to strip all artifice from his writing, so that if people were convinced by it, it would have to be by the argument itself, and not the form.  That&#8217;s perhaps going a bit too far, but I do think there is reason to take special care when reading very good writers, so as not to be carried along by the form rather than the substance.<br />
(I should say, I don&#8217;t at all think that Dworkin was trying to put one over on people, just that I think that sometimes the fluidity of his writing filled in gaps in his arguments.)</p>
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		<title>By: LFC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453195</link>
		<dc:creator>LFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have not read the equality essays referred to by CB but some years ago I read Dworkin&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Law&#039;s Empire&lt;/i&gt;, which I liked,  and have dipped into &lt;i&gt;Justice for Hedgehogs&lt;/i&gt;. In a file I have a yellowing clipping of an exchange/debate he had with M. Walzer in New York Review of Books a long time ago. (I think it was about the latter&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Spheres of Justice&lt;/i&gt;, which Dworkin had reviewed.)  Dworkin was among other things a *very* lucid writer (which can&#039;t be said of all political or legal theorists, and I&#039;ll refrain from naming names).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read the equality essays referred to by CB but some years ago I read Dworkin&#8217;s <i>Law&#8217;s Empire</i>, which I liked,  and have dipped into <i>Justice for Hedgehogs</i>. In a file I have a yellowing clipping of an exchange/debate he had with M. Walzer in New York Review of Books a long time ago. (I think it was about the latter&#8217;s <i>Spheres of Justice</i>, which Dworkin had reviewed.)  Dworkin was among other things a *very* lucid writer (which can&#8217;t be said of all political or legal theorists, and I&#8217;ll refrain from naming names).</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453193</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sad and surprising news.  When I was first getting interested in legal and political philosophy I read (on the advice of Jon Mandle), Dworkin&#039;s _Taking Rights Seriously_ (and Jonathan Wolff&#039;s _Introduction to Political Philosophy_) and it had a big effect on me.  Teaching his _Life&#039;s Dominion_ was one of my more pleasant teaching experiences as well.  I legal theory, I think he&#039;s more likely to be remembered for his work on constitutional law (esp. American constitutional law) than other things, both his particular arguments about parts of the US constitution, and the more general fit-and-justification approach, which always seemed most at home applied to constitutional law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad and surprising news.  When I was first getting interested in legal and political philosophy I read (on the advice of Jon Mandle), Dworkin&#8217;s _Taking Rights Seriously_ (and Jonathan Wolff&#8217;s _Introduction to Political Philosophy_) and it had a big effect on me.  Teaching his _Life&#8217;s Dominion_ was one of my more pleasant teaching experiences as well.  I legal theory, I think he&#8217;s more likely to be remembered for his work on constitutional law (esp. American constitutional law) than other things, both his particular arguments about parts of the US constitution, and the more general fit-and-justification approach, which always seemed most at home applied to constitutional law.</p>
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		<title>By: David Morrice</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453186</link>
		<dc:creator>David Morrice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sad news of the death of a great and influential thinker.  I once believed that positive discrimination (affirmative action as the world outside the UK knows it) was without justification and published a short article to that effect. Reading Dworkin made me realise that I was wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad news of the death of a great and influential thinker.  I once believed that positive discrimination (affirmative action as the world outside the UK knows it) was without justification and published a short article to that effect. Reading Dworkin made me realise that I was wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hurka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2013/02/14/ronald-dworkin-has-died/comment-page-1/#comment-453180</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hurka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=27558#comment-453180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow! I hadn&#039;t realized he was ill.

Yes, a very creative thinker, on many topics, and an incisive critic. I attended a large paper-reading/discussion group he was part of in Oxford in the mid-80s. It was understood that he would always ask the first question in the Q&amp;A and it was right that he should: he always went right to the heart of whatever presentation had been given. He was the best at that of anyone I&#039;ve ever seen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! I hadn&#8217;t realized he was ill.</p>
<p>Yes, a very creative thinker, on many topics, and an incisive critic. I attended a large paper-reading/discussion group he was part of in Oxford in the mid-80s. It was understood that he would always ask the first question in the Q&amp;A and it was right that he should: he always went right to the heart of whatever presentation had been given. He was the best at that of anyone I&#8217;ve ever seen.</p>
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