September 13, 2004

Ocean's What?

Posted by Kieran

Leaving aside the question of whether a sequel is a good idea in the first place, if anyone can give me a plausible argument why Ocean’s Twelve is a better title than Ocean’s Dozen then I’d like to hear it.

Posted on September 13, 2004 04:57 AM UTC
Comments

“Ocean’s Twelve is a better title than Ocean’s Dozen then I’d like to hear it.”

Ocean’s Dozen would seem to be a better title if it was not a sequel. People might be able to identify it more easily as the sequel (twelve comes after eleven…) and that might be useful for marketing. “Twelve” seems to provide more of a punctuation mark, perhaps?

Posted by Tim W. · September 13, 2004 05:06 AM

Well, because then “Ocean’s 13” would have to be “Ocean’s Baker’s Dozen”, which would just sound silly.

Plus it avoids comparisons with The Dirty Dozen and its sequel.

Posted by Chris Lawrence · September 13, 2004 06:07 AM

Could it be that a group of home-grown terrorists and thiefs should not share the same number of original disciples (sans one)?

I’m just guessing here…

Posted by Scaramouche · September 13, 2004 06:14 AM

I voted for “Ocean’s Tweleven”, myself.

Posted by Nick Simmonds · September 13, 2004 06:27 AM

And, giving the growing desperation of the industry to find new franchises, the production of 11 and 12 provides a prima facie case for making prequels 1 to 10.

For an industry that can make films like Final and Total Destruction of the Universe 2 this is a no-brainer.

Posted by John Quiggin · September 13, 2004 06:33 AM

Oops, bad HTML tags. Should read:

And, giving the growing desperation of the industry to find new franchises, the production of 11 and 12 provides a prima facie case for making prequels 1 to 10.

For an industry that can make films like Final and Total Destruction of the Universe 2 this is a no-brainer.

Posted by John Quiggin · September 13, 2004 08:34 AM

Since it’s bound to be awful, I’d suggest that “Ocean’s 2nd XI” would be a more honest title.

Posted by dsquared · September 13, 2004 02:08 PM

Ocean’s 2nd XI

Now I’m going to have to try to explain to some Americans why that’s so funny. Just like I had to during the World Cup in Korea, when Irish fans were found wandering the streets singing “We love you long time, we do.”

Posted by Kieran Healy · September 13, 2004 02:52 PM
There were, in addition to the original Ocean’s Eleven, several other films featuring Frank Sinatra and his Rat Pack:
  • Robin & the 7 Hoods
  • 4 for Texas
  • Sergeant’s 3

It was some kind of Rat Pack in-joke for all the films to contain a number that is a potential roll of a pair of dice. So “Ocean’s 12” works. But AFAIK no one ever says “you rolled a dozen” at a craps table the proposed alternative would not obey the convention.

Posted by son volt · September 13, 2004 04:36 PM

Apparently the producers were moving toward metric, rather than the older English Standard quantification system. We should be happy that they did not select binary code, thereby rendering the title to “Ocean’s 1.1.0.0”.

Posted by Ereshkigal · September 13, 2004 04:39 PM

“John Carpenter’s Ocean’s Twelve” has a nice ring to it, but not as nice as “Billy Ocean’s Get of My Dreams and Into My Car.”

Posted by Something Polish · September 13, 2004 04:42 PM

I am inevitably reminded of the retitling of The Madness of King George III to The Madness of King George for American consumption for fear that we wouldn’t come if we thought we had missed the first two films in the series.

And, while we’re on the subject, how about Harlan Ellison calling the sequels to his Dangerous Visions books the semi-literate Again Dangerous Visions instead of the obvious, and more interesting, More Dangerous Visions?

Posted by Tom Parmenter · September 14, 2004 05:29 AM

As for Ellison, I would assume that he liked the solipsism inherent in Again Dangerous Visions

Posted by liberal japonicus · September 14, 2004 09:53 AM

Maybe they should do star wars numbering… and it should be OCeans 1

Oh and thats the worst trailer Ive ever seen. Basically because there’s nothing to see. I could have made that trailer. thats pathetic!

Posted by bicyclemark · September 14, 2004 07:35 PM

Because no one counts one.. two.. three.. four.. five.. six.. seven.. eight.. nine.. ten.. eleven.. DOZEN.
That’s why.

Posted by the_home · September 15, 2004 02:34 AM

If Hollywood did Greek tragedy, we’d wind up with “Eight Against Thebes”.

Posted by David · September 16, 2004 05:20 AM

I am still waiting for Malcolm XI: The Return.

Posted by Phersu · September 16, 2004 03:52 PM
Followups

This discussion has been closed. Thanks to everyone who contributed.