June 23, 2004

Salty language

Posted by Henry

More on transatlantic variations of the English language. I’m reading my way through Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey and Maturin series at the moment, and was intrigued to discover that a “scuttle butt” is some class of a naval water barrel. I presume that this means that the historical origins of the term “scuttlebutt” (rumours, especially of the vexatious variety) are closely analogous with those of the contemporary American term, “water cooler gossip.”

Posted on June 23, 2004 04:55 PM UTC
Comments

I’m also reading the Aubrey-Maturin novels.

To come closer to the main theme, the Australian word “furphy”, meaning “spurious rumour” comes from a supplier of water tanks, much used in WWI

Posted by John Quiggin · June 23, 2004 05:16 PM

I just finished reading the series for the third time. :) There are a number of interesting slang terms that seem to have originated in British Naval tradition. (And, of course, the books are fascinating on their own.)

Posted by Anne · June 23, 2004 05:18 PM

Just so. In the Navy I learned that a scuttle is a hole through which water leaks, as in scuttle a ship. The butt is actually the stopper that keeps it from leaking. Therefore, deck seaman would gather around the scuttlebutt to whisper about the rumors of a ship.

(FYI, on coming to Afghanistan, my father-in-law bequeathed me his entire set of A-M novels. I’m about nine books in right now and love them.)

Posted by Terry · June 23, 2004 05:21 PM

Um, of course the scuttle, in this case, was in a water barrel.

Posted by Terry · June 23, 2004 05:23 PM

My guess is that in O’Brian’s navy at least, the butt isn’t the stopper, but is the barrel. “Butt” is an archaic word for barrel, as in a butt of wine. This usage may have changed over the generations of course …

Posted by Henry · June 23, 2004 05:30 PM

These novels are based on the life of Sir Thomas Cochrane. If you read his biography it is stranger than fiction.

Posted by S Rynger · June 23, 2004 06:38 PM

Forgot to say that there is also a book titled ‘Jackspeak’ that has a really good compendium of Naval slang:

Dockyard oyster

Brown-hatters scrambling net

Spithead pheasant

The Andrew

etc etc

Posted by s rynger · June 23, 2004 06:43 PM

FWIW, when I was in the US Navy a water cooler or fountain was still called a “scuttlebutt,” as were the rumors traded there.

Posted by tuttle · June 23, 2004 07:42 PM
The OED agrees with you; the secondary meaning for it is slang (orig. U.S. Naut.). Rumour, idle gossip, unfounded report. and it has a citation from 1918,
R. W. KAUFFMAN Our Navy at Work xiii. 198 It’s wilder than anything the scuttle-butt gossips could make up! Ibid. 199 Ships are full of..rumours..which originate in talk exchanged around the skuttle-butt, or drinking barrel, so that all wild stories are branded as `scuttle-butt yarns’.
Posted by Aidan Kehoe · June 23, 2004 07:51 PM

Indeed, Cochrane seems to have been a most remarkable man. For example:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcochrane.htm
and
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/5806.html
Would anyone know the leading biography?

Posted by David Sucher · June 23, 2004 08:32 PM

Indeed, Cochrane seems to have been a most remarkable man. For example:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcochrane.htm
and
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/5806.html
Would anyone know the leading biography?

Posted by David Sucher · June 23, 2004 08:33 PM

Indeed, Cochrane seems to have been a most remarkable man. For example:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcochrane.htm
and
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/5806.html
Would anyone know the leading biography?

Posted by David Sucher · June 23, 2004 08:36 PM

I also like the way some words mean something other than what you’d think they should. For example Maturin is ever in search of ‘nondescript’ plants and animals. Nondescript being exciting since it means they haven’t yet been described by science rather than just being somewhat plain. Or the use of ‘enthusiasm’ as a negative (“I am no enthusiast”).

Posted by Hank · June 23, 2004 10:11 PM

You have it mostly right. A “butt” is a barrel. To scuttle something is to poke a hole in it. A scuttlebutt is (literally) a barrel with a hole cut in it so that sailors could dip water out of it. It morphed into shorthand for “water cooler gossip”.

A reasonable compendium of salty language that has come into common use is at http://www.fortogden.com/nauticalterms.html

I cannot vouch for it’s accuracy in every entry, but it may make O’Brian a bit more comprehensible.

Posted by uh_clem · June 23, 2004 10:16 PM

“These novels are based on the life of Sir Thomas Cochrane. If you read his biography it is stranger than fiction.”

Cochrane’s exploits are pretty much the inspiration for the whole genre, not just O’Brian’s work—dating back to the 19th century novels of Frederick Marryat, who had been one of Cochrane’s officers as a young man.

Posted by rea · June 23, 2004 10:49 PM

David: I recommend ‘Cochrane’ by Robert Harvey.

Posted by old maltese · June 23, 2004 10:58 PM

Indeed, Cochrane seems to have been a most remarkable man. For example:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcochrane.htm
and
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/5806.html
Would anyone know the leading biography?

Posted by David Sucher · June 23, 2004 11:12 PM

From The Australian Oxford Paperback Dictionary(1996):

furphy n.(pl.furphies) 1 a false report or rumour. 2 an absurd story. •adj.(furphier, furphiest) absurdly false, unbelievable: that’s the furphiest bit of news I ever heard.

This Ozword comes from the name of [John] Furphy, a blacksmith and general engineer, who went to Shepparton from Kyneton in 1871 and set up a foundry. John Furphy designed a galvanised iron water-cart on wheels and his firm, J. Furphy & Sons, manufactured them. Each cart had the name FURPHY written large on the body. So successful were these carts that during World War 1 the Department of the Army bought many Furphy carts to supply water to camps in Australia and especially to camps in Palestine, and Egypt.

Posted by Neil · June 24, 2004 02:48 AM

From The Australian Oxford Paperback Dictionary(1996):

furphy n.(pl.furphies) 1 a false report or rumour. 2 an absurd story. •adj.(furphier, furphiest) absurdly false, unbelievable: that’s the furphiest bit of news I ever heard.

This Ozword comes from the name of [John] Furphy, a blacksmith and general engineer, who went to Shepparton from Kyneton in 1871 and set up a foundry. John Furphy designed a galvanised iron water-cart on wheels and his firm, J. Furphy & Sons, manufactured them. Each cart had the name FURPHY written large on the body. So successful were these carts that during World War 1 the Department of the Army bought many Furphy carts to supply water to camps in Australia and especially to camps in Palestine, and Egypt.

Posted by Neil · June 24, 2004 02:48 AM

From The Australian Oxford Paperback Dictionary(1996):

furphy n.(pl.furphies) 1 a false report or rumour. 2 an absurd story. •adj.(furphier, furphiest) absurdly false, unbelievable: that’s the furphiest bit of news I ever heard.

This Ozword comes from the name of [John] Furphy, a blacksmith and general engineer, who went to Shepparton from Kyneton in 1871 and set up a foundry. John Furphy designed a galvanised iron water-cart on wheels and his firm, J. Furphy & Sons, manufactured them. Each cart had the name FURPHY written large on the body. So successful were these carts that during World War 1 the Department of the Army bought many Furphy carts to supply water to camps in Australia and especially to camps in Palestine, and Egypt.

Posted by Neil · June 24, 2004 02:48 AM

From The Australian Oxford Paperback Dictionary(1996):

furphy n.(pl.furphies) 1 a false report or rumour. 2 an absurd story. •adj.(furphier, furphiest) absurdly false, unbelievable: that’s the furphiest bit of news I ever heard.

This Ozword comes from the name of [John] Furphy, a blacksmith and general engineer, who went to Shepparton from Kyneton in 1871 and set up a foundry. John Furphy designed a galvanised iron water-cart on wheels and his firm, J. Furphy & Sons, manufactured them. Each cart had the name FURPHY written large on the body. So successful were these carts that during World War 1 the Department of the Army bought many Furphy carts to supply water to camps in Australia and especially to camps in Palestine, and Egypt.

Posted by Neil · June 24, 2004 02:48 AM

The legendary blues guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan recorded a song called Scuttle Buttin’ — opening track on the awesome album Couldn’t Stand the Weather.

(Any excuse to talk about Stevie.)

Posted by Campbell · June 24, 2004 07:20 AM
Followups

This discussion has been closed. Thanks to everyone who contributed.