Projection Ain’t Just a Booth in The Movie Theater
by John Holbo on August 25, 2008
K. Lo, at the Corner: “Conversations with random liberal strangers in New York City often descent into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories that cannot be argued with.” Yeah, I can see how that might be the case.
It’s probably unnecessary to add, but what the hell: the best bit is that K.Lo implies, in the post, either that New York isn’t ‘real’ or isn’t ‘really’ part of America. If it is indeed the case that she is in the habit of striking up political conversations with random liberals on the streets of New York, I think it isn’t hard to see what might be the basis for the ‘crazy theories that cannot be argued with’.
There was a period shortly after 9/11 when, in this type of article, New York got a promotion to the one part of Real America on the East Coast. I guess that status has been revoked.
It reminds my of David Koresh (of Waco fame) and General Boykin. Boykin was in charge of the Delta Force commandos at Waco (i.e., in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act). I don’t think that the police/Delta Force massacred the Branch Davidians there, but if one thinks that they did, it was almost certainly a Delta Force operation (if you’re going to commit mass murder, use elite commandos, not ordinary federal agents).
After 9/11, Boykin toured right-wing churches, presenting his ‘war against Satan’ theory. Seems that Waco isn’t worth mentioning anymore.
In the same manner, the right hated NYC before 9/11, and really kept up that hate – they just used NYC for propaganda, just like pre-millenial dispensationalists like to use Israel.
Alas, no political persuasion has a monopoly on goofy ideas. Most human people, left, right, independent, or neuter, are resentful, dreadfully ill informed, utterly convinced of the rightness of their opinions, and only legally sane because the shrinks grade on the curve. What one discovers by interviewing random human beings is the deplorable average of our species, not the characteristics of any particular group. So K.Lo could have been a Monarchist interviewing rice farmers in Rangoon or an anarchist doing survey sampling in Peoria and used the same statistical fallacy to score cheap points.
Alas, no political persuasion has a monopoly on goofy ideas.
True but but but: some of us are aware of this fact and seeking, however humbly, to improve on the situation in order to make better informed decisions based on not-quite-so-loony data. But only some of us. Most haven’t woken up to this fact yet but could any day. But a certain sliver of the population is not only OK with being “resentful, dreadfully ill informed, utterly convinced of the rightness of their opinions” but take it as an affront when they are made aware of their own shortcomings. Learning form mistakes is a liberal habit.
Since I live in San Francisco, I hear more left leaning nonsense than right leaning nonsense. Accident of sampling. When I travel, the proportions are usually reversed. Are Democrats better informed than Republicans? I would like to believe so, but I just don’t know.
Democratic leaders, at least some of the time, do try to reason with people on the basis of actual information. The extent to which this approach works is perpetually in question, however. You also have to wonder to what the extent “learning from mistakes is a liberal habit” a not just a comforting illusion.
“learning from mistakes is a liberal habitâ€
Indeed; ’twas true for Erasmus. Usage has of course altered somewhat. Combative self-righteousness tends to mitigate the association, as it does with the other classical virtues, limiting an amplitude of vision as it does..
Talking to a stranger in New York City and getting a response not involving an erect middle finger and the brush off would make that city quite different than it was for the twenty years I resided there….One of its greatest charms in fact…..
A taxi driver. If I used the same logic, I’d have to conclude that San Juan residents are more fluent in English than New York City residents are. Looks like Lopez needs to get out to Queens more.
““Conversations with random liberal strangers in New York City often descent into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories that cannot be argued with.†”
Aha! So K. Lo is the source of half the ‘idiot tourist’ incidents depicted on OverheardInNewYork.
So, if NYC isn’t ‘really’ part of the US, was 9/11 not ‘really’ an attack on America (ok, ok, so KLo would probably reply that the Pentagon sure is part of America.)
This does help explain why the Bush administration, in its zealous ‘war on terror’, hasn’t done more to tighten harbor security in NYC.
Not here. Residents of Denver I’ve encountered are the happiest sort. They enjoy engaging and listening. They respect different points of view. It’s a whole new world out and up here. … There’s something healthy in the air here in real America.
Today’s newspaper:
Target Obama: An American nightmare
Ian Munro, Denver
August 27, 2008
…the random arrest of a suspected drunk driver in Colorado. Two rifles, walkie talkies, drugs and a hunting scope were found when police stopped a utility being driven erratically early Sunday morning.
A day later, it emerged that the incident had led federal officials to launch an investigation into a possible plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.
…After the arrest on Sunday of Tharin Gartrell, 28, police went to the Cherry Creek Hotel, about eight kilometres from downtown Denver, to arrest an associate, Shawn Robert Adolf, 33.
Adolf broke his ankle when he jumped from a sixth-floor window to try to flee police. The hotel is being used to house delegates and journalists covering the convention. A third man, Nathan Johnson, 32, was arrested in a Denver motel.
Johnson is being held on drug charges and Adolf is a fugitive with seven arrest warrants issued for him, local media reported.
Investigators are reportedly still trying to assess the extent of the threat to Senator Obama. “Because this matter is currently under investigation, there is little we can say right now,” Colorado prosecutor Troy Eid told The Rocky Mountain News.
{ 28 comments }
jholbo 08.25.08 at 8:31 am
It’s probably unnecessary to add, but what the hell: the best bit is that K.Lo implies, in the post, either that New York isn’t ‘real’ or isn’t ‘really’ part of America. If it is indeed the case that she is in the habit of striking up political conversations with random liberals on the streets of New York, I think it isn’t hard to see what might be the basis for the ‘crazy theories that cannot be argued with’.
abb1 08.25.08 at 9:06 am
Sounds like New York is a Plato’s cave thing and she is the one who got away. Or maybe she is the one who didn’t.
Another Damned Medievalist 08.25.08 at 11:57 am
I think the best thing is the spelling of ‘descend’ …
Matt McIrvin 08.25.08 at 1:04 pm
There was a period shortly after 9/11 when, in this type of article, New York got a promotion to the one part of Real America on the East Coast. I guess that status has been revoked.
Zamfir 08.25.08 at 1:11 pm
Matt, also when the benefits of American Capitalism over Canadian French Soc1al1sm have to be shown, New York is seldom excluded.
I see the S-word is still banned…
Barry 08.25.08 at 1:27 pm
It reminds my of David Koresh (of Waco fame) and General Boykin. Boykin was in charge of the Delta Force commandos at Waco (i.e., in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act). I don’t think that the police/Delta Force massacred the Branch Davidians there, but if one thinks that they did, it was almost certainly a Delta Force operation (if you’re going to commit mass murder, use elite commandos, not ordinary federal agents).
After 9/11, Boykin toured right-wing churches, presenting his ‘war against Satan’ theory. Seems that Waco isn’t worth mentioning anymore.
In the same manner, the right hated NYC before 9/11, and really kept up that hate – they just used NYC for propaganda, just like pre-millenial dispensationalists like to use Israel.
The Modesto Kid 08.25.08 at 1:30 pm
Sounds like New York is a Plato’s cave thing
Totally — as Blumenberg observed, “The city is a recapitulation of the cave, by other means.”
John Holbo 08.25.08 at 1:49 pm
I guess that’s why they elected Blumenberg mayor.
Master of Space and Time 08.25.08 at 3:45 pm
And Aliens ?
Michael Drake 08.25.08 at 4:17 pm
Random Liberal Stranger in New York City: “Who the hell was that? And why did she accost me with her anger, bitterness, and crazy theories?”
Righteous Bubba 08.25.08 at 4:27 pm
What bonehead decided to put all the intellectual/cultural/financial muscle in Fake America instead of Casper Wyoming?
Jim Harrison 08.25.08 at 5:16 pm
Alas, no political persuasion has a monopoly on goofy ideas. Most human people, left, right, independent, or neuter, are resentful, dreadfully ill informed, utterly convinced of the rightness of their opinions, and only legally sane because the shrinks grade on the curve. What one discovers by interviewing random human beings is the deplorable average of our species, not the characteristics of any particular group. So K.Lo could have been a Monarchist interviewing rice farmers in Rangoon or an anarchist doing survey sampling in Peoria and used the same statistical fallacy to score cheap points.
Righteous Bubba 08.25.08 at 5:20 pm
Alas, no political persuasion has a monopoly on goofy ideas.
True, but there are political persuasions striving to achieve that monopoly.
Keith 08.25.08 at 5:45 pm
Alas, no political persuasion has a monopoly on goofy ideas.
True but but but: some of us are aware of this fact and seeking, however humbly, to improve on the situation in order to make better informed decisions based on not-quite-so-loony data. But only some of us. Most haven’t woken up to this fact yet but could any day. But a certain sliver of the population is not only OK with being “resentful, dreadfully ill informed, utterly convinced of the rightness of their opinions” but take it as an affront when they are made aware of their own shortcomings. Learning form mistakes is a liberal habit.
Jason 08.25.08 at 6:43 pm
There’s something healthy in the air here in real America.
Apparently the cabbie took her to Greeley. So we can assume he was putting her on about that Hannity shit, too.
CJColucci 08.25.08 at 7:20 pm
You talkin’ to ME!?
Jim Harrison 08.25.08 at 8:25 pm
Since I live in San Francisco, I hear more left leaning nonsense than right leaning nonsense. Accident of sampling. When I travel, the proportions are usually reversed. Are Democrats better informed than Republicans? I would like to believe so, but I just don’t know.
Democratic leaders, at least some of the time, do try to reason with people on the basis of actual information. The extent to which this approach works is perpetually in question, however. You also have to wonder to what the extent “learning from mistakes is a liberal habit” a not just a comforting illusion.
Keith 08.25.08 at 8:44 pm
You also have to wonder to what the extent “learning from mistakes is a liberal habit†a not just a comforting illusion.
Statistical anomaly, I’d say.
felix culpa 08.25.08 at 9:29 pm
“learning from mistakes is a liberal habitâ€
Indeed; ’twas true for Erasmus. Usage has of course altered somewhat. Combative self-righteousness tends to mitigate the association, as it does with the other classical virtues, limiting an amplitude of vision as it does..
Rick Dubin 08.25.08 at 10:14 pm
Talking to a stranger in New York City and getting a response not involving an erect middle finger and the brush off would make that city quite different than it was for the twenty years I resided there….One of its greatest charms in fact…..
bianca steele 08.26.08 at 12:52 am
A taxi driver. If I used the same logic, I’d have to conclude that San Juan residents are more fluent in English than New York City residents are. Looks like Lopez needs to get out to Queens more.
Jon H 08.26.08 at 1:05 am
““Conversations with random liberal strangers in New York City often descent into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories that cannot be argued with.†”
Aha! So K. Lo is the source of half the ‘idiot tourist’ incidents depicted on OverheardInNewYork.
herr doktor bimler 08.26.08 at 6:31 am
If conversations don’t descend into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories, then you’re not doing it right.
J Thomas 08.26.08 at 2:25 pm
If conversations don’t descend into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories, then you’re not doing it right.
Somehow that sentence calls out for an “in bed” added after “conversations”.
josh 08.26.08 at 7:01 pm
So, if NYC isn’t ‘really’ part of the US, was 9/11 not ‘really’ an attack on America (ok, ok, so KLo would probably reply that the Pentagon sure is part of America.)
This does help explain why the Bush administration, in its zealous ‘war on terror’, hasn’t done more to tighten harbor security in NYC.
josh 08.26.08 at 7:12 pm
P.S. One wonders if one would find such reflections at The Corner had Giuliani become the Republican nominee.
Helen 08.27.08 at 4:16 am
K.Lo:
Today’s newspaper:
Yeah, definitely something in the air up there.
J Thomas 08.28.08 at 10:31 pm
If conversations don’t descend into anger, bitterness, and crazy theories, then you’re not doing it right.
‘Somehow that sentence calls out for an “in bed†added after “conversationsâ€.’
I take it back. Put the “in bed” wherever it seems to fit best.
Comments on this entry are closed.