If the Wisconsin protests have sparked even the smallest revival of the old Upper Midwest, La Follette-progressive ideology, I’d be deliriously happy. Here’s hoping!
“This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment. It is not available in your country. [Germany]” — I’m sure they feel they have good legal reason for it, but I still find youtube’s implementation of copyright-screening for viewers here incredibly annoying.
I do feel awful for those poor people in Japan, and I posted a great Wendell Berry quote on nuclear energy, but it also bothered me that that story drove Wisconsin out of the headlines: the economic situation in this country is also a long-term and tragic disaster.
This is unrelated but I don’t know how to contact admin here. Would it be possible for someone to post the following as a main post.
Keele University is considering closing its philosophy department. Anyone concerned should join this facebook group for more details on how they can help fight it.
If the protesters in Michigan win and stop Snyder in his tracks, what then? Michigan has been in a tailspin for the last decade. It’s the only state in the U.S. to have lost population between the 2000 and 2010. Its per-capita income has dropped from near the top to to near the bottom for U.S. states (from #15 in per-capita in 2000 to #34 in household income in 2009). What’s the progressive solution? A continuation of the successful policies of the two-term Granholm administration? Tax increases and an even worse business climate!? Seriously?
Detroit Public Schools has lost more than HALF of its student population (and the corresponding per-student funding) in less than a decade. What’s the progressive solution to eliminating the excess schools and staff (excess because there are less than half the students), erasing the deficit, and raising the appalling, bottom-of-the-barrel student achievement? Protect all the contracted DPS union jobs, salaries, and benefits no matter what? With what money?
One great sign at the rally that doesn’t make it into the video played on Snyder’s ‘one tough nerd’ image:
Snyder, tough nerd that picks on school children, the elderly, and the poor.
And that pretty much sums it up. $500 annual cuts per student for schools, taxing pensions, and eliminating the earned income credit. All accompanied by something like an 80% decline in corporate taxes. Brilliant.
Let’s do a little experiment, me. Why don’t you try to come up with some non-straw progressive policies and present them to the CT community? Think of it as a test so we can see if you’re arguing in good faith or not.
Why don’t you try to come up with some non-straw progressive policies and present them to the CT community?
Sorry. I’m at a loss. What is are the progressive proposals for Michigan other than ‘Stop Snyder?’ OK, suppose we stop Snyder. Then what?
The Jeff Daniels-Mitch Albom wing of the Michigan progressives are very vocally in favor of keeping Michigan’s most-generous-in-the-nation 42% film production subsidies (which, for other industries, would be considered corporate welfare, but apparently not when it comes to movies).
‘Investing’ more in education in the belief that an educated work force will attract businesses to the state? But that’s been the formula for the last, lost decade. What happens is Michigan students graduate from (good to excellent) public universities…and then leave for greener pastures, while other states hoover up all the newly minted grads (whose education those states didn’t have to invest in — thanks Michigan taxpayers!)
So I just don’t have a progressive plan for Michigan that doesn’t seem to be made of straw, I thought maybe some of you all did.
If only there were something called a “search engine” where you could do some research before posting here, mw, and asking us to do your homework for you.
If only there were something called a “search engine†where you could do some research before posting here, mw, and asking us to do your homework for you.
Uh, OK — so you got nothing, then? You’ll notice I mentioned ‘film tax credits’ and ‘invest more in education’. Those do happen to be two things that, as far as I can determine, are pretty prominent in the minds of Michigan progressives. The first one is flat-out-insane (paying Hollywood film companies 42% of the bottom-line cost of production!?) The second one? It’s a humane and even plausible idea. It was a reasonable thing to try. Unfortunately it just. hasn’t. fucking. worked. at. all. Investing in education at the expense of a lousy business climate means lots of your newly educated young adults pack up and leave once they have their diplomas in hand.
mw, you’re correct that the film subsidy is crazy; however, it’s helpful to recall the promises made by the Neoliberals when they began deregulating and promoting outsourcing: everybody would win, they said. It turns out that they were wrong. The lousy business climate isn’t the result of investing in education but rather in hollowing out America’s economy. Synder wants more of the same with the added fun of privatizing local governments.
The lousy business climate isn’t the result of investing in education but rather in hollowing out America’s economy.
How does that explain why the business climate is so much worse in Michigan than, say, Indiana? Indiana used to be thought of as the poorer cousin next door, but now? Indianapolis is growing and thriving while Detroit is cratering and shrinking (if the population of Indy hasn’t yet passed Detroit’s, it will momentarily). What is red-state, red-neck Indiana getting right that blue-state Michigan is getting wrong?
So, what is the alternative? Liquidationism? Let everyone just get out of the state in search of “greener pastures”? Even with massive tax cuts, spending cuts and further wage depression, it would take years for business to move in at significant amount. By then crime and devaluation will have further fucked everything up.
You might be right that Michigan´s spiral has no (simple) anwser. The federal government is the one with the capacity to borrow and act counter-cyclically. Unfortunately it didn´t even try, as Krugman said about stimulus. Try and think at this as a general revolt against failed policies, growing inequality, no oportunities and an assault on labor. Sometimes being a deterrent is a success already.
I confess I´m not from the US, but I like to think this rebellion of the masses is more then just some local, partisan issue. Do tell me if I´m too dreamy here.
Even with massive tax cuts, spending cuts and further wage depression, it would take years for business to move in at significant amount. By then crime and devaluation will have further fucked everything up.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Michigan does have quite a bit going for it — excellent public universities, good infrastructure, beautiful natural environment, low cost of living, and SE Michigan is still the Silicon Valley of the auto industry (the transplants won’t put factories here because they don’t want to deal with the UAW, but they’re perfectly willing to put R&D facilities in the area and hire away engineering talent). Even the state’s budget deficit isn’t anywhere nearly as bad as in Illinois, California, or New Jersey. It’s not all doom.
But…there are cities and urban school systems in Michigan that are in really, really deep shit. Their debts and deficits are enormous and there are no more big bailouts coming from Lansing or Washington. I just don’t see most of them getting through the next year or two without either bankruptcy or emergency managers wielding the same kind of power as a bankruptcy judge — and I also don’t see how marches on the Capitol could possibly change that reality.
I used to visit Michigan quite often some years ago, but I hadn’t been back until last year. The difference was very striking.
What I really noticed was the way all the towns seemed to have been hollowed out. There was no economic activity at all in the town centers. It looked as though all the shops and restaurants had been knocked down and replaced by bleak offices, mostly government of one type or another, and megachurches. Then there would be a ring of strip malls encircling the town. Was this something to do with trying to avoid city sales tax?
Still a lot of very posh housing areas and country clubs though, so some people are doing all right.
The many porn emporiums along the interstate are new, too.
While we were there our credit card number was stolen and a whole bunch of laptops and phones charged to it. So evidently there is entrepreneurship there, of a kind.
What puzzled me is that we were not anywhere near any of the old auto manufacturing towns, so it’s not obvious why there should be such a big decline in the rest of the state. I would have thought the biggest activity in those parts was agriculture.
“Let everyone just get out of the state in search of “greener pasturesâ€? “
Seriously, why not? Residents of a state aren’t serfs, after all, tied to the land. Why the heck shouldn’t they bail when a state is in bad shape? We tend to think of ghost towns as something sad, but there’s something worse: Ghettos where there aren’t any jobs to be had, but people stick around anyway.
When I lost my job back in 2008, I spent all of a week trying to find new work in Michigan, and when I realized that, even if I did, it would be distant enough I’d have to give up my home, I stopped looking in Michigan, and found work elsewhere. And I never realized until I moved down south just how depressed Michigan had become. Not just in an economic sense, but emotionally. Leaving the state was like driving out from under a dismal cloud.
“What puzzled me is that we were not anywhere near any of the old auto manufacturing towns, so it’s not obvious why there should be such a big decline in the rest of the state. I would have thought the biggest activity in those parts was agriculture.”
You’d have thought wrong: I lived in a rural area, my neighbors were farmers, but my job was still automotive related. The state is, or was anyway, full of smaller, tier three and lower automotive suppliers. Machine shops, stamping plants, extrusion houses. All over the place, and they were critical to the local economies. Farming is fine, and it’s still doing good, but it can only support so much population per square mile, even taking into account the entire supply chain. Even in rural areas, most Michiganders were employed at something unrelated to farming. Mostly related, however distantly, to the automotive industry. And the manufacturing has mostly moved elsewhere.
What I really noticed was the way all the towns seemed to have been hollowed out. There was no economic activity at all in the town centers. It looked as though all the shops and restaurants had been knocked down and replaced by bleak offices, mostly government of one type or another, and megachurches….Still a lot of very posh housing areas and country clubs though, so some people are doing all right…The many porn emporiums along the interstate are new, too.
Yes, all over the state, cities and towns have changed their name from ‘Bedford Falls’ to ‘Pottersville’. Seriously, I don’t know where you’ve been wandering, but I drive around most of the lower peninsula and the only interstate porn emporium I can remember driving by is ‘The Velvet Touch’ somewhere a bit west of Jackson (birthplace of the Republican Party, BTW, so you know that probably explains it somehow).
The non-auto-dependent west side of the state has been less affected by the recession than the auto-dependent east side. In general, the places that have been struggling for at least a couple of decades (the cities of Detroit, Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Benton Harbor) are now in desperate straits while places like Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Traverse City are OK — in no worse shape than the country as a whole, anyway.
I had thought previously that big ‘seeker churches’ and strip malls replacing mom & pop shops on main street was a national trend that started long before the current recession, but now I learn its confined to the last few years in Michigan. That’s good to know.
I certainly agree with you. On the personal level I would have done the same thing and left. What I´m saying though is that this is not a feasible solution for everyone. On paper it works great: people move from depressed to vibrant areas, everything evens out. But depopulating an whole state is absurd, and it seems to have become a downward spiral instead of a balancing. So, I´d have done the same as you, but I think government should have stepped in so no one had to.
But depopulating an whole state is absurd, and it seems to have become a downward spiral instead of a balancing.
That hasn’t happened. Michigan lost 55,000 people out of a population of 10M or (0.6 percent) since the 2000 census. It’s notable because, in a growing country, it was the only state to lose population in the decade (not even a Katrina-ravaged Louisiana lost population). But nothing, so far, in Michigan that would constitute an unstoppable downward spiral of depopulation. Of more concern is significant drop in per-capita income and the loss of the young & educated and the increase in the percentage of retirees.
The city of Detroit, on the other hand, has depopulated — from almost 2M in 1950 to somewhere in the 700-800K range now (so it has lost close to 2/3 of its peak population). That process, though, has continued inexorably during good and bad economic times. It’s almost certainly accelerating now because of the acute financial crisis in the city and its school system. But most of the people who leave Detroit just move to the ‘burbs. I’m not sure I see how the city pulls out of the tailspin. I have an outlandish idea that Detroit (or big parts of it anyway) might ultimately end up like a modern Ostia Antica — abandoned urban ruins in the midst of a major metro area.
I wouldn’t advocate depopulating the entire state; That would require removing people who are actually better off where they are. I would suggest that the actual people in question would probably be better off if the state were depopulated to a greater extent than is happening. The “stickiness” of people resisting movement keeps them in situations they could improve if they moved.
In retrospect I’m sure *I’d* have been better off if I’d moved a couple of years earlier.
Brett Bellmore: I admit that I didn’t realize how much the entire state was dependent on the auto industry, because those small operations are not that noticeable when you’re passing through.
mw: In my observation, which is admittedly not a scientific study, the hollowing out of town centers appears to be much more drastic in Michigan than in Illinois, Iowa, Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri. It may be the norm for places further east, but I haven’t been there to see. In all cases I’m comparing with 30 years ago, which was the last time I spent any time in those places. And of course I’m only sampling randomly in all those places.
If you have only seen one interstate porn emporium, you must not drive across the state on I-94.
maidhc, I suspect your observations are colored by preconceptions. This is hardly a comprehensive study, but at least its some data — here’s a map of porn shops in Missouri:
Michigan:46, Illinois:46, Missouri + Iowa: 34. So mega-churches-per-capita is marginally higher in Michigan. The obvious solution would be for Michigan to convert a few mega churches into big-box porn superstores…
{ 24 comments }
Russell Arben Fox 03.17.11 at 3:24 pm
If the Wisconsin protests have sparked even the smallest revival of the old Upper Midwest, La Follette-progressive ideology, I’d be deliriously happy. Here’s hoping!
x.trapnel 03.17.11 at 3:33 pm
“This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment. It is not available in your country. [Germany]” — I’m sure they feel they have good legal reason for it, but I still find youtube’s implementation of copyright-screening for viewers here incredibly annoying.
Shelley 03.17.11 at 4:12 pm
I do feel awful for those poor people in Japan, and I posted a great Wendell Berry quote on nuclear energy, but it also bothered me that that story drove Wisconsin out of the headlines: the economic situation in this country is also a long-term and tragic disaster.
Thanks for this post.
Liam 03.17.11 at 5:49 pm
This is unrelated but I don’t know how to contact admin here. Would it be possible for someone to post the following as a main post.
Keele University is considering closing its philosophy department. Anyone concerned should join this facebook group for more details on how they can help fight it.
savekeelephilosophy@groups.facebook.com
Many thanks,
Liam
Liam 03.17.11 at 5:53 pm
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_200915196594313
that is the facebook group. My Apologies
http://savekeelephilosophy@groups.facebook.com
that is the email address.
mw 03.17.11 at 7:32 pm
If the protesters in Michigan win and stop Snyder in his tracks, what then? Michigan has been in a tailspin for the last decade. It’s the only state in the U.S. to have lost population between the 2000 and 2010. Its per-capita income has dropped from near the top to to near the bottom for U.S. states (from #15 in per-capita in 2000 to #34 in household income in 2009). What’s the progressive solution? A continuation of the successful policies of the two-term Granholm administration? Tax increases and an even worse business climate!? Seriously?
Detroit Public Schools has lost more than HALF of its student population (and the corresponding per-student funding) in less than a decade. What’s the progressive solution to eliminating the excess schools and staff (excess because there are less than half the students), erasing the deficit, and raising the appalling, bottom-of-the-barrel student achievement? Protect all the contracted DPS union jobs, salaries, and benefits no matter what? With what money?
Matt 03.17.11 at 7:51 pm
One great sign at the rally that doesn’t make it into the video played on Snyder’s ‘one tough nerd’ image:
Snyder, tough nerd that picks on school children, the elderly, and the poor.
And that pretty much sums it up. $500 annual cuts per student for schools, taxing pensions, and eliminating the earned income credit. All accompanied by something like an 80% decline in corporate taxes. Brilliant.
John Protevi 03.17.11 at 7:52 pm
Let’s do a little experiment, me. Why don’t you try to come up with some non-straw progressive policies and present them to the CT community? Think of it as a test so we can see if you’re arguing in good faith or not.
John Protevi 03.17.11 at 7:54 pm
“mw” not “me” of course. Darn that iPhone auto-correct function.
mw 03.17.11 at 8:27 pm
Why don’t you try to come up with some non-straw progressive policies and present them to the CT community?
Sorry. I’m at a loss. What is are the progressive proposals for Michigan other than ‘Stop Snyder?’ OK, suppose we stop Snyder. Then what?
The Jeff Daniels-Mitch Albom wing of the Michigan progressives are very vocally in favor of keeping Michigan’s most-generous-in-the-nation 42% film production subsidies (which, for other industries, would be considered corporate welfare, but apparently not when it comes to movies).
‘Investing’ more in education in the belief that an educated work force will attract businesses to the state? But that’s been the formula for the last, lost decade. What happens is Michigan students graduate from (good to excellent) public universities…and then leave for greener pastures, while other states hoover up all the newly minted grads (whose education those states didn’t have to invest in — thanks Michigan taxpayers!)
So I just don’t have a progressive plan for Michigan that doesn’t seem to be made of straw, I thought maybe some of you all did.
John Protevi 03.17.11 at 8:32 pm
If only there were something called a “search engine” where you could do some research before posting here, mw, and asking us to do your homework for you.
mw 03.17.11 at 8:51 pm
If only there were something called a “search engine†where you could do some research before posting here, mw, and asking us to do your homework for you.
Uh, OK — so you got nothing, then? You’ll notice I mentioned ‘film tax credits’ and ‘invest more in education’. Those do happen to be two things that, as far as I can determine, are pretty prominent in the minds of Michigan progressives. The first one is flat-out-insane (paying Hollywood film companies 42% of the bottom-line cost of production!?) The second one? It’s a humane and even plausible idea. It was a reasonable thing to try. Unfortunately it just. hasn’t. fucking. worked. at. all. Investing in education at the expense of a lousy business climate means lots of your newly educated young adults pack up and leave once they have their diplomas in hand.
tom bach 03.17.11 at 9:11 pm
mw, you’re correct that the film subsidy is crazy; however, it’s helpful to recall the promises made by the Neoliberals when they began deregulating and promoting outsourcing: everybody would win, they said. It turns out that they were wrong. The lousy business climate isn’t the result of investing in education but rather in hollowing out America’s economy. Synder wants more of the same with the added fun of privatizing local governments.
mw 03.17.11 at 10:36 pm
The lousy business climate isn’t the result of investing in education but rather in hollowing out America’s economy.
How does that explain why the business climate is so much worse in Michigan than, say, Indiana? Indiana used to be thought of as the poorer cousin next door, but now? Indianapolis is growing and thriving while Detroit is cratering and shrinking (if the population of Indy hasn’t yet passed Detroit’s, it will momentarily). What is red-state, red-neck Indiana getting right that blue-state Michigan is getting wrong?
thor 03.18.11 at 1:18 am
So, what is the alternative? Liquidationism? Let everyone just get out of the state in search of “greener pastures”? Even with massive tax cuts, spending cuts and further wage depression, it would take years for business to move in at significant amount. By then crime and devaluation will have further fucked everything up.
You might be right that Michigan´s spiral has no (simple) anwser. The federal government is the one with the capacity to borrow and act counter-cyclically. Unfortunately it didn´t even try, as Krugman said about stimulus. Try and think at this as a general revolt against failed policies, growing inequality, no oportunities and an assault on labor. Sometimes being a deterrent is a success already.
I confess I´m not from the US, but I like to think this rebellion of the masses is more then just some local, partisan issue. Do tell me if I´m too dreamy here.
mw 03.18.11 at 2:17 am
Even with massive tax cuts, spending cuts and further wage depression, it would take years for business to move in at significant amount. By then crime and devaluation will have further fucked everything up.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Michigan does have quite a bit going for it — excellent public universities, good infrastructure, beautiful natural environment, low cost of living, and SE Michigan is still the Silicon Valley of the auto industry (the transplants won’t put factories here because they don’t want to deal with the UAW, but they’re perfectly willing to put R&D facilities in the area and hire away engineering talent). Even the state’s budget deficit isn’t anywhere nearly as bad as in Illinois, California, or New Jersey. It’s not all doom.
But…there are cities and urban school systems in Michigan that are in really, really deep shit. Their debts and deficits are enormous and there are no more big bailouts coming from Lansing or Washington. I just don’t see most of them getting through the next year or two without either bankruptcy or emergency managers wielding the same kind of power as a bankruptcy judge — and I also don’t see how marches on the Capitol could possibly change that reality.
maidhc 03.18.11 at 6:29 am
I used to visit Michigan quite often some years ago, but I hadn’t been back until last year. The difference was very striking.
What I really noticed was the way all the towns seemed to have been hollowed out. There was no economic activity at all in the town centers. It looked as though all the shops and restaurants had been knocked down and replaced by bleak offices, mostly government of one type or another, and megachurches. Then there would be a ring of strip malls encircling the town. Was this something to do with trying to avoid city sales tax?
Still a lot of very posh housing areas and country clubs though, so some people are doing all right.
The many porn emporiums along the interstate are new, too.
While we were there our credit card number was stolen and a whole bunch of laptops and phones charged to it. So evidently there is entrepreneurship there, of a kind.
What puzzled me is that we were not anywhere near any of the old auto manufacturing towns, so it’s not obvious why there should be such a big decline in the rest of the state. I would have thought the biggest activity in those parts was agriculture.
Brett Bellmore 03.18.11 at 11:33 am
“Let everyone just get out of the state in search of “greener pasturesâ€? “
Seriously, why not? Residents of a state aren’t serfs, after all, tied to the land. Why the heck shouldn’t they bail when a state is in bad shape? We tend to think of ghost towns as something sad, but there’s something worse: Ghettos where there aren’t any jobs to be had, but people stick around anyway.
When I lost my job back in 2008, I spent all of a week trying to find new work in Michigan, and when I realized that, even if I did, it would be distant enough I’d have to give up my home, I stopped looking in Michigan, and found work elsewhere. And I never realized until I moved down south just how depressed Michigan had become. Not just in an economic sense, but emotionally. Leaving the state was like driving out from under a dismal cloud.
“What puzzled me is that we were not anywhere near any of the old auto manufacturing towns, so it’s not obvious why there should be such a big decline in the rest of the state. I would have thought the biggest activity in those parts was agriculture.”
You’d have thought wrong: I lived in a rural area, my neighbors were farmers, but my job was still automotive related. The state is, or was anyway, full of smaller, tier three and lower automotive suppliers. Machine shops, stamping plants, extrusion houses. All over the place, and they were critical to the local economies. Farming is fine, and it’s still doing good, but it can only support so much population per square mile, even taking into account the entire supply chain. Even in rural areas, most Michiganders were employed at something unrelated to farming. Mostly related, however distantly, to the automotive industry. And the manufacturing has mostly moved elsewhere.
mw 03.18.11 at 12:32 pm
What I really noticed was the way all the towns seemed to have been hollowed out. There was no economic activity at all in the town centers. It looked as though all the shops and restaurants had been knocked down and replaced by bleak offices, mostly government of one type or another, and megachurches….Still a lot of very posh housing areas and country clubs though, so some people are doing all right…The many porn emporiums along the interstate are new, too.
Yes, all over the state, cities and towns have changed their name from ‘Bedford Falls’ to ‘Pottersville’. Seriously, I don’t know where you’ve been wandering, but I drive around most of the lower peninsula and the only interstate porn emporium I can remember driving by is ‘The Velvet Touch’ somewhere a bit west of Jackson (birthplace of the Republican Party, BTW, so you know that probably explains it somehow).
The non-auto-dependent west side of the state has been less affected by the recession than the auto-dependent east side. In general, the places that have been struggling for at least a couple of decades (the cities of Detroit, Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Benton Harbor) are now in desperate straits while places like Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Traverse City are OK — in no worse shape than the country as a whole, anyway.
I had thought previously that big ‘seeker churches’ and strip malls replacing mom & pop shops on main street was a national trend that started long before the current recession, but now I learn its confined to the last few years in Michigan. That’s good to know.
thor 03.18.11 at 3:32 pm
@Maidch
I certainly agree with you. On the personal level I would have done the same thing and left. What I´m saying though is that this is not a feasible solution for everyone. On paper it works great: people move from depressed to vibrant areas, everything evens out. But depopulating an whole state is absurd, and it seems to have become a downward spiral instead of a balancing. So, I´d have done the same as you, but I think government should have stepped in so no one had to.
mw 03.18.11 at 4:12 pm
But depopulating an whole state is absurd, and it seems to have become a downward spiral instead of a balancing.
That hasn’t happened. Michigan lost 55,000 people out of a population of 10M or (0.6 percent) since the 2000 census. It’s notable because, in a growing country, it was the only state to lose population in the decade (not even a Katrina-ravaged Louisiana lost population). But nothing, so far, in Michigan that would constitute an unstoppable downward spiral of depopulation. Of more concern is significant drop in per-capita income and the loss of the young & educated and the increase in the percentage of retirees.
The city of Detroit, on the other hand, has depopulated — from almost 2M in 1950 to somewhere in the 700-800K range now (so it has lost close to 2/3 of its peak population). That process, though, has continued inexorably during good and bad economic times. It’s almost certainly accelerating now because of the acute financial crisis in the city and its school system. But most of the people who leave Detroit just move to the ‘burbs. I’m not sure I see how the city pulls out of the tailspin. I have an outlandish idea that Detroit (or big parts of it anyway) might ultimately end up like a modern Ostia Antica — abandoned urban ruins in the midst of a major metro area.
Brett Bellmore 03.18.11 at 10:55 pm
I wouldn’t advocate depopulating the entire state; That would require removing people who are actually better off where they are. I would suggest that the actual people in question would probably be better off if the state were depopulated to a greater extent than is happening. The “stickiness” of people resisting movement keeps them in situations they could improve if they moved.
In retrospect I’m sure *I’d* have been better off if I’d moved a couple of years earlier.
maidhc 03.19.11 at 12:08 am
Brett Bellmore: I admit that I didn’t realize how much the entire state was dependent on the auto industry, because those small operations are not that noticeable when you’re passing through.
mw: In my observation, which is admittedly not a scientific study, the hollowing out of town centers appears to be much more drastic in Michigan than in Illinois, Iowa, Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri. It may be the norm for places further east, but I haven’t been there to see. In all cases I’m comparing with 30 years ago, which was the last time I spent any time in those places. And of course I’m only sampling randomly in all those places.
If you have only seen one interstate porn emporium, you must not drive across the state on I-94.
mw 03.19.11 at 3:39 pm
maidhc, I suspect your observations are colored by preconceptions. This is hardly a comprehensive study, but at least its some data — here’s a map of porn shops in Missouri:
http://tinyurl.com/4w7qljv
Looks like a pornucopia for those traveling on I-70 between St Louis and Kansas City. Iowa, too, seems well endowed:
http://tinyurl.com/4wge4mg
But then there’s poor Michigan:
http://tinyurl.com/47vvha8
The relative lack of adult resources is especially sad given that Michigan has more people (10M) than Missouri and Iowa combined (6M+3M).
How about mega-churches? Here’s a national database:
http://tinyurl.com/dxmxag
Michigan:46, Illinois:46, Missouri + Iowa: 34. So mega-churches-per-capita is marginally higher in Michigan. The obvious solution would be for Michigan to convert a few mega churches into big-box porn superstores…
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