Inflicted Christianity

He should try his flying carpet next time!

Perhaps it would be better if they included a passage from The Origin of Species then?

Why do liberals hate free speech?

You don’t have to want to BAN the Biblical verses. It’s not a free speech issue.
It’s an issue of crass proselytizing in a context where one might have reasonable expectation that one might be free from it.
So all the libertarians can get off their high horse.

How would Christians react if they found some Wiccan incantation on their meal tray?
I am always struck by the desperation of Christian proselytizing in the US. The only explanation that I can come up with is “Misery loves company”. :)

Dear Gwydion:
Well that makes it all better. And here I was thinking your post was shallow and contemptuous. But I’ve just received word from Gaia that judging a business by the beauty of their employees is the height of enlightened thought.
But I see where you are coming from. I mean, who wouldn’t have their feelings hurt by seeing some scripture on a napkin. You should probably wear ear plugs to so that you don’t shit yourself and hand over your wallet to some stranger reading a Bible.
But all kidding aside, do people really get so uptight about such things?

>_< >_< >_<
Jet, can you, in all seriousness, imagine a US-based airline putting holy texts from any – FUCKING ANY, mind you – other religion? Maybe there’s an even chance of you being told a little something about the eightfold path next flight you take? Or a little bit of poetry from the Koran? Hell, even the relatively agnostic Tao?
No?
Then it’s an example of Christian Privilege.
Look, I’ll freely stipulate that there are currently other, bigger things to worry about. But don’t go on about how there’s no problem here and we just need to swallow it. Captive proselytization like this is crass, obnoxious, and arrogant. (Legal, maybe; no one’s disputing that. But boorish in the extreme.) If you’re a Christian business and fully intend to preach the word, the least you can do is work a little Jesusfish into your logo or something. Don’t masquerade as secular.

Such pathetic whining. If it’s crass and boorish, poor Alaskan Airlines…they’ll lose business. Get your own companies, and you can put incantations or whatever you want on the plates, or the sides of the planes for that matter. Would you be so upset if a Saudi or Jordanian airline put verses of the Koran here and there? I’d frankly expect it. Y’all live in in a pluralistic world, remember? That means people think and believe different things. That’s supposed to be OK. You’re supposed to be grown up enough to see and hear different things and say something like, “Oh, there must be a significant number of Christians (or Jews) in this company, and here they have engraved one of their cherished sayings.” That’s exactly what you’d say if it were Navajo Airlines and it had a bit of their sacred stories on the plates. Or, more germaine, if there had been some Inuit sacred writings on the plates. Come on, time to grow up and see the world as it actually is.

My remarks about the ugly flight attentants referred to both males and females. Hardly “sexist.”
As if that makes it acceptable. Deep thought for an “academic”.
Hey, here’s a thought, Gwydion: Next time, crumple up the prayer card and throw it out. Nobody forced you to read it, unlike my daughter in the public school system who must learn the religion-disguised-as-science called evolutionism or flunk biology.

Get that Dr. Bronner’s castile soap bottle out of my sight! My eyes! My eyes!

Chris,
Were his comments about the scripture on the napkins jocular too? So the whole post was a big joke and he wasn’t serious about any of it? Is that what you’re saying Chris?

“…unlike my daughter in the public school system who must learn the religion-disguised-as-science called evolutionism or flunk biology.” Oh, stow it. As if you actually know anything about evolutionary biology. I love the way ignorami feel free to bloviate about this, when even they would immediately recognize the idiocy of someone who knows nothing about cars lecturing an auto mechanic about how to fix them.

“Nobody forced you to read it, unlike my daughter in the public school system who must learn the religion-disguised-as-science called evolutionism or flunk biology.”
Don’t let PZ hear that. Else ye shall be driven from error, and trained unto the righteous path. Thank heavens that your daughter is already embarked upon it, bless her heart.
You know, Crooked Timber comments now appear to be near valueless, due at least in part to the imponderable humoring of the imbecile “jet”.

I gotta say, for how “oppressed” Christians claim to be in the U.S., it’s astonishing to see just how touchy they are about any complaints about their incessant proselytizing.
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Now, me, I see the whole verse-on-the-tray thing as an example of how not to go about converting people. I mean, here we have a non-Christian–the supposed target for these proselytizing efforts–writing about how annoying and ineffective these verses are. And the Christians response? “Stuff a sock in it! You will sit there and absorb our message!” Instead, maybe, just maybe, the Christians ought to think of a more effective way to get in this guy’s head.
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Unless the point of the verse isn’t to convert the unbeliever, but as a signal to the 70 percent of the clientele who are Christian. “See? We’re Christian too! So don’t get upset at us for our poor maintenence record and ugly flight attendants.” If so, the verses aren’t annoying and ineffective, but downright cynical–just what you’d expect from a shittily run company.

I can’t believe no one here’s mentioned fortune cookies yet… those things are frequently full of all sorts of crazy shit, not least, last decade or so, bible verse. Also, props to Dr. Bronner (tho’ the first time you wash yer undercarriage with that peppermint soap — that’s ENLIGHTENMENT).

I rather think In’n’Out suggests an instructive lesson regarding this sort of thing.
Being, it’s fine and well to quote your Christian beliefs at people as long as you’re providing a superior product served by competent and well-compensated employees in a pleasant environment.
Forcing the Jeebusism on people while you’re in the process of ripping them off and making them miserable, on the other hand, is just a touch tacky.

“Alaska Airlines has been doing that stuff for a long time.”
Yup. I encountered some of their proselytizing in waiting area (which I couldn’t leave because it was nearly time to board) once. Totally infuriating.
“In the land of rigid separation between church and state private individuals and companies have no qualms (don’t even think it’s impolite!) to bombard people with their religious prejudices.”
Well here’s one Murkan private individual on the receiving end who has massive qualms about this kind of crap. It is impolite! Judith Martin should get on the case! (Maybe she already has.)

How is this any different that watching TV and some revealing type commercial comes on, or some death scene. Your response would be right if you said – “Turn off the T.V. if it offends you or you see something in the form of a commercial or any type of programming”. The same holds for Alaska Airlines. If you don’t like it, then stop flying on that airline and use another. Nuff said!

I also have that thought frequently, which is why my reaction is, if they really want to degrade their own religion that way, why should _I_ worry about it?

Over at Salon a while back, Ask the Pilot cataloged the various religious incursions into air travel.
In-and-Out puts the Bible verse reference on the inside lower rim of their drink cups. For all the world that strikes me as the Christian equivalent of a prayer wheel, you know, every time a high schooler grabs a cup off the stack, G_D’s invoked.
But the burgers are good, so I can deal. And the SoCal evangelical culture spawned several fast food moguls.
Are those guys upthread polling your syndication feed every 5 seconds in hopes of finding something about which to be hurt?

I recently saw a TV commercial for the Jaguar automobile based on a “seven deadly sins” theme. I think a similar ad has appeared in print. E.g., you “lust” after its smooth curves, the reclining seats let you indulge your “sloth,” etc. Is everyone offended by that, too? I mean, you don’t like reading Christian messages on your airplane napkins, and the Christians don’t like using their religion as a joke to sell fancy cars.
It kind of seems like folks on the secular left need to decide which it’s going to be: are we all to avoid offending one another’s religious or areligious sensibilities in public, or are we to treat religion as a subject like any other, appropriate fodder for public debate, public jokes, and sincere public statements as well?

Jake, I don’t remember, which is why I didn’t say. It wasn’t personal, I know that. The time was near Christmas, and I think it was singing of some sort – but –
Wait. I’m a fool. I’ve conflated two memories, that’s what it is. It was carol singing, and I resented that because we couldn’t leave. And there was also printed something-or-other handed out with the meal. So I take it back about the physical, live proselytization in the waiting area – that didn’t happen.

Kvetch — I am interested in an elaboration of your statement that “worship at the church of your choice” is the statement of an asshole, but “mind your own goddamn business” is “nice.”

Jake – the economics of the airline business are rather more complicated than you imply. For years the ‘full service’ carriers have been trapped in an economic hell from which there is no escape – seeking profits from premium passengers who demand ever more sophisticated product for ever lower fares. The ‘low cost’ boys (please note – not ‘low fares’) work on an entirely different business model that seeks to lower – and then fail to meet – pax expectations. As to the comeliness of cabin crew – of whatever gender – given the way in which some carriers still sell themselves on the sexual attractiveness of the trolley dollies (or in The Bearded Wonder’s case the chances of your getting laid) it’s hardly surprising that Gwydion feels alienated . . . .
Having said which – no Yoorpean carrier would dare to proselytise inflight because they know that it would absolutely alienate a significant proportion of their pax

I’m surprised he didn’t complain about Alaska’s in-flight credit card advertisements, which they recite over the speakers at about time you’re supposed to be putting stowing your stuff and preparing to land. I found those far more bothersome than the Bible card, as you can’t just crumple and discard a flight attendant.
As far as Christian propaganda goes, I kinda like In’n’Out’s: it’s in small print on a hidden part of the container, and the reference on the hamburger wrapper is unusual and cutely apropos. If people are going to proselytize, they ought to be able to come up with something beyond the same old John and Psalms ad nauseam.

I’ve not recently seen an American carrier sell itself based on the comeliness of it’s flight attendants. And while the economics of the airline industry are certainly complicated (let’s not even get into comparative labor relations between low-cost and traditional carriers), I’ll stand by my statement that giving passengers what they say they want is usually a bad idea.
Gwydion feels alienated because he’s a member of a minority dealing in a mass-market industry, so his opinion doesn’t really count. As someone who’s 6’4″ I sort of feel his pain, but recognize that the economics of the situation dictate that my options are pretty much to get screwed on comfort or to pay five times as much to fly first class, and complaining is only likely to remind me of my irritation and to bring on calls of “quit your bitching” from others. Even so, there are airlines that pack you in tighter than others, and I avoid those airlines like the plague. I’d suggest that Gwydion do the same with airlines that evangelize to him (I don’t see the intent to convert that proselytizing connotes).
And yes, it is indeed true that the religious beliefs of the American and European populace differ. This is not likely to change any time soon.