Nah, the Irish refer to a fairly common mixed drink of stout and ale as a ‘black and tan’,
Not any Irish people I know. Americans are a different story.
Suggested jingle: “Come out ye Black and Tans / And drive me ice cream van / Round Dublin’s windy streets till it meanders / Tell them how the rBGH / Gave the cream a better taste / From Lakeland Dairies out in Killeshandra …” etc.
Was the drink (typically Guinness and Bass in American bars) invented in the US? People who drink it (including occasionally myself) imagine that they are taking part in an ancient pub tradition. We’re such damn suckers, we drinkers.
Ben & Jerry used to have a flavor named “Cherry Garcia,” after you know who. After he died they toyed with the idea of renaming the brand “Berry Jerry”; too bad they never followed through.
Note: the “Black and Tan” mixed stout-and-ale drink is an excellent method for poor college students to make cheap American Corn Lager palatable — one or two bottles of Guinness will stretch over a whole six-pack of Old Milwaukee or Schafer or Gennessee.
Pilsner? I thought the “tan” was supposed to be an ale, like Bass. A pilsner would make black-and-gold. Isn’t there another name for the Guinness-and-Harp thing?
B+J is referring to the ‘Black and Tan Sundae’. ‘Sundae’ is a concoction of ice cream and flavored syrup, usually also with nuts, whipped cream, and a cherry available all over the USA, particularly in ice cream parlors. (I do not know whether sundaes exist elsewhere in the world, it is definitely an American invention.)
A Black and Tan sunday has chocolate and butterscotch or chocolate and caramel syrup.
As far as I am aware, very few people in the US know about the Irish B+T reference. Presumably Irish-Americans in places like Boston and people interested in English history (like me) and people interested in Irish history, but as a proportion of the population, less that 1% I would estimate.
The Irish car bomb is big all over America. It’s half a shot of Irish whiskey topped off with Bailey’s then you drop it in a half full glass of Guinness and slam the whole thing.
The cocktail to which p o’neil is referring consists of the following:
1)Almost a pint of Guinness
2)A shot glass 1/2 full of bushmill’s and 1/2 of bailey’s, dropped into the guinness a la boilermakers, and consumed in one gulp.
In the Bay Area at least, this is referred to as a “Belfast Car Bomb”. It’s delicious,intoxicating and the most tastelessly named drink I can think of at the moment.
Well, Kieran, my very Irish cousin by marriage says he knew what a B&T was back in Co. Kerry, though it was a drink that was kinda looked down on there. So the American and Australian use probably does comes from Eire.
“Black and tan” the drink does exist in Ireland but in 6 years bartending in Dublin I’d say I served a total of about five of them. At most. Smithwicks is bad enough by itself, let alone creating some sort of diluted Guinness with it. And I agree with Marc above, wry smile and a snort would probably be the extent of the reaction to the Ben & Jerrys at home. We’re not big ice cream eaters anyway, are we?
>Searched on beer advocate.com, and there are at least 110 chocolate stouts and porters out there.
Oh god. What have we done?
Yuengling’s Black & Tan is good stuff. From the website (hey they’re a brewery, not a historical resource so YMMV):
“We proudly feature this traditional English, 18th century blend of Porter and beer, historically referred to as “Half and Half” or “Black and Tan”.
I have some vague memory that back then there was actally a commercial reason for mixing them, but damned if I can imagine what it could have possibly been.
One goes out into the woods with a pack of large dogs that make long vowel sounds and wait until the dogs corner a raccoon in a tree. Then you follow the sound of the baying dogs and shoot the raccoon. This is, of course, if the dogs didn’t catch the raccoon before the tree, which results in shredded bits of raccoon everywhere. See also: Where the Red Fern Grows.
The dogs are lovely floppy-eared sleepy hounds with musical voices (although should your neighbors hear them at night they would probably disagree) but I always thought raccoon hunting was another thing that was best dismissed with Oscar Wilde’s quip.
“B+J is referring to the ‘Black and Tan Sundae’. ‘Sundae’ is a concoction of ice cream and flavored syrup, usually also with nuts, whipped cream, and a cherry available all over the USA, particularly in ice cream parlors. (I do not know whether sundaes exist elsewhere in the world, it is definitely an American invention.)”
That sounds much preferably to smelly dogs that howl all the time.
Toscanini’s in Cambridge, MA used to have Guinness ice cream on their flavor rotation. I never tried it (I was partial to espresso mixed with sweet cream, which approximates the flavor of a latte), but friends thought it was quite good.
I dunno – when I lived in Dublin, I got a bit of a toungelashing when I tried to order one from a bartender in temple bar that I musn’t call it a black and tan, that’s what the bloody brits called it, and if I wanted to drink like a brit I could f**k off on back to britain. If I wanted an affanaff, well, then, that’s a fine Irish drink and a different thing altogether, now.
re 49: Toscanini’s Guinness ice cream was (is) strikingly good! And Ben and Jerry said that Tosci’s was their favorite micro-ice-cream (micro-freeze?) maker. My favorites were Cardamom-ginger, khulfee, and anything with hazelnut. And the hot vanilla, mmm. Yours?
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Patrick Nielsen Hayden 04.04.06 at 10:22 pm
Unbelievable.
derrida derider 04.04.06 at 10:40 pm
Nah, the Irish refer to a fairly common mixed drink of stout and ale as a ‘black and tan’, and that’s what Ben & Jerry are referring to.
They’re not *that* sensitive, except when they want to be.
Kieran Healy 04.04.06 at 10:56 pm
Nah, the Irish refer to a fairly common mixed drink of stout and ale as a ‘black and tan’,
Not any Irish people I know. Americans are a different story.
Suggested jingle: “Come out ye Black and Tans / And drive me ice cream van / Round Dublin’s windy streets till it meanders / Tell them how the rBGH / Gave the cream a better taste / From Lakeland Dairies out in Killeshandra …” etc.
Kelly 04.04.06 at 11:31 pm
Who cares? I wanna know where I can find that here!
Delicious Pundit 04.05.06 at 12:06 am
1. Ben and Jerry’s doesn’t use rBGH, silly.
2. This would also be a good name for an ice cream that celebrates a majority-minority city such as L.A.
3. I like cream stout, and I like ice cream, but I’m not sure I really like the two together.
4. On the other hand, why isn’t there chocolate beer?
Alan 04.05.06 at 12:12 am
There is. Try Young’s Chocolate Stout.
Alan 04.05.06 at 12:19 am
Christ almighty. Searched on beer advocate.com, and there are at least 110 chocolate stouts and porters out there.
radio radio 04.05.06 at 12:30 am
Was the drink (typically Guinness and Bass in American bars) invented in the US? People who drink it (including occasionally myself) imagine that they are taking part in an ancient pub tradition. We’re such damn suckers, we drinkers.
godoggo 04.05.06 at 2:08 am
As an American, my main association would be the Black and Tan Fantasy.
joejoejoe 04.05.06 at 2:08 am
I prefer the Orange Order Sherbert.
joejoejoe 04.05.06 at 2:09 am
Sherbet even.
Henry (not that Henry) 04.05.06 at 2:22 am
Ben & Jerry used to have a flavor named “Cherry Garcia,” after you know who. After he died they toyed with the idea of renaming the brand “Berry Jerry”; too bad they never followed through.
Kenny Easwaran 04.05.06 at 3:59 am
They also had Maple-Powdered Howard, supporting their former governor, People-Powered Howard.
ajay 04.05.06 at 4:04 am
Or the Raspberry Hand of Ulster? Sinn Fudge?
Or better still:
Bloody Sundae!
James Wimberley 04.05.06 at 4:18 am
I’ve wondered how much of this is sold in the Netherlands.
Daniel 04.05.06 at 4:36 am
presumably you would have it in a Bloody Sundae?
Daniel 04.05.06 at 4:37 am
oh I see ajay beat me to that joke, sorry.
Daniel 04.05.06 at 4:39 am
btw, there is a Chinese restaurant round the corner from me called the “New Culture Revolution”.
ajay 04.05.06 at 5:07 am
But once you abandon good taste, the possibilities are endless.
Waffle-SS
Straw-Beria
Kharamel Rouge
Einsatzfruit
Gulag Archipistachio
Mmmmau-mau
Hutu-Frutti
otto 04.05.06 at 5:16 am
Even in the post-national Free State, with its Italian wine bars and the like, this may be a hard sell. On the other hand, if it tastes very good…
DC 04.05.06 at 5:16 am
There’s already a fairly trendy cafe in Dublin called “Mao’s”.
belle le triste 04.05.06 at 6:28 am
re: “new culture revolution” — there is a chinese takeaway in the council estate outskirts of shrewsbury called “new great wall of china”
it is not visible from space
The Modesto Kid 04.05.06 at 7:11 am
Note: the “Black and Tan” mixed stout-and-ale drink is an excellent method for poor college students to make cheap American Corn Lager palatable — one or two bottles of Guinness will stretch over a whole six-pack of Old Milwaukee or Schafer or Gennessee.
Marc Mulholland 04.05.06 at 7:39 am
Black and Tans is a bit too far in the past now to work up more than a wry smile in Ireland, I think.
Now, if it was named after the First Parachute Regiment …
Doug T 04.05.06 at 8:02 am
Not much international interest in American college sports, but Syracuse University’s teams are called the Orangemen.
Meanwhile traditional football power Notre Dame cuts right to the chase and are the Fighting Irish.
Cryptic Ned 04.05.06 at 9:04 am
Why is Ben & Jerry’s implying that “black & tan” means stout combined with chocolate? Sounds more like “black & black” to me.
Surely if Jelly Belly can make garlic-flavored beans, Ben & Jerry’s can make pilsner-flavored ice cream.
KCinDC 04.05.06 at 10:10 am
Pilsner? I thought the “tan” was supposed to be an ale, like Bass. A pilsner would make black-and-gold. Isn’t there another name for the Guinness-and-Harp thing?
save_the_rustbelt 04.05.06 at 10:20 am
In the US “black and tan” refers to a breed of coon hunting dogs, or to certain cross-bred cows.
Probably doesn’t translate very well overseas.
ajay 04.05.06 at 11:01 am
A breed of what hunting dogs? No, you’re right. That doesn’t translate well overseas at all.
Aaron M 04.05.06 at 11:05 am
I’m in the US, and I’d never heard of the dog breed. Of course, I come from a beer-drinking family with an Irish name, and own Wolfe Tones cds.
KCinDC 04.05.06 at 11:08 am
Overseas? That doesn’t translate very well to blue states, but perhaps we count as overseas to owners of coon-hunting dogs.
Since Ben & Jerry’s is presumably familiar with cows, I’m guessing even in Vermont the beer meaning outweighs any cow or dog connotations.
P O'Neill 04.05.06 at 11:09 am
There’s also a cocktail, apparently big in Thailand, called the Irish Car Bomb.
David Margolies 04.05.06 at 11:22 am
B+J is referring to the ‘Black and Tan Sundae’. ‘Sundae’ is a concoction of ice cream and flavored syrup, usually also with nuts, whipped cream, and a cherry available all over the USA, particularly in ice cream parlors. (I do not know whether sundaes exist elsewhere in the world, it is definitely an American invention.)
A Black and Tan sunday has chocolate and butterscotch or chocolate and caramel syrup.
As far as I am aware, very few people in the US know about the Irish B+T reference. Presumably Irish-Americans in places like Boston and people interested in English history (like me) and people interested in Irish history, but as a proportion of the population, less that 1% I would estimate.
For the sundae, see e.g.
www/fentonscreamery.com/menu-ice-cream-creations.shtml
That is my local ice cream parlor’s version (made with toaster almond ice cream, yuck!)
bergo 04.05.06 at 11:45 am
The Irish car bomb is big all over America. It’s half a shot of Irish whiskey topped off with Bailey’s then you drop it in a half full glass of Guinness and slam the whole thing.
foolishmortal 04.05.06 at 11:59 am
The cocktail to which p o’neil is referring consists of the following:
1)Almost a pint of Guinness
2)A shot glass 1/2 full of bushmill’s and 1/2 of bailey’s, dropped into the guinness a la boilermakers, and consumed in one gulp.
In the Bay Area at least, this is referred to as a “Belfast Car Bomb”. It’s delicious,intoxicating and the most tastelessly named drink I can think of at the moment.
tom 04.05.06 at 2:18 pm
Cripes, it’s only noon here and now I’m seriously craving both beer and ice cream!! Shouldn’t have read this thread…
Scott Spiegelberg 04.05.06 at 2:49 pm
To #29, Guinness and Harp is a half-and-half.
will u. 04.05.06 at 6:03 pm
Re #21, here’s The Onion:
“German Luftwaffle Chain Offers Waffles, Overwhelming Air Superiority”
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39674
derrida derider 04.05.06 at 7:37 pm
Well, Kieran, my very Irish cousin by marriage says he knew what a B&T was back in Co. Kerry, though it was a drink that was kinda looked down on there. So the American and Australian use probably does comes from Eire.
jamesonandwater 04.05.06 at 8:50 pm
“Black and tan” the drink does exist in Ireland but in 6 years bartending in Dublin I’d say I served a total of about five of them. At most. Smithwicks is bad enough by itself, let alone creating some sort of diluted Guinness with it. And I agree with Marc above, wry smile and a snort would probably be the extent of the reaction to the Ben & Jerrys at home. We’re not big ice cream eaters anyway, are we?
a different chris 04.05.06 at 8:54 pm
>Searched on beer advocate.com, and there are at least 110 chocolate stouts and porters out there.
Oh god. What have we done?
Yuengling’s Black & Tan is good stuff. From the website (hey they’re a brewery, not a historical resource so YMMV):
“We proudly feature this traditional English, 18th century blend of Porter and beer, historically referred to as “Half and Half” or “Black and Tan”.
I have some vague memory that back then there was actally a commercial reason for mixing them, but damned if I can imagine what it could have possibly been.
This:
http://www.ivo.se/guinness/bnt.html
seems to imply that the Irish know that it’s a beer.
And, to back up my bud save-the-rustbelt:
http://www.abtcc.com/
P O'Neill 04.05.06 at 8:57 pm
So the American and Australian use probably does comes from Eire.
AAAARRRGGGGHHHH! But that’s another thread entirely.
winna 04.05.06 at 10:19 pm
Black and tans are raccoon hunting dogs.
One goes out into the woods with a pack of large dogs that make long vowel sounds and wait until the dogs corner a raccoon in a tree. Then you follow the sound of the baying dogs and shoot the raccoon. This is, of course, if the dogs didn’t catch the raccoon before the tree, which results in shredded bits of raccoon everywhere. See also: Where the Red Fern Grows.
The dogs are lovely floppy-eared sleepy hounds with musical voices (although should your neighbors hear them at night they would probably disagree) but I always thought raccoon hunting was another thing that was best dismissed with Oscar Wilde’s quip.
ajay 04.06.06 at 4:48 am
Oh, coon = raccoon. I see. That’s really not an abbreviation you want to use in the UK. Trust me on this.
Is calling a drink a “Belfast Car Bomb” worse than calling one a B-52?
save_the_rustbelt 04.06.06 at 9:28 am
“A breed of what hunting dogs? No, you’re right. That doesn’t translate well overseas at all.”
Dogs that hunt racoons – run them up trees and etc. Sort of a rural thing.
save_the_rustbelt 04.06.06 at 9:30 am
“B+J is referring to the ‘Black and Tan Sundae’. ‘Sundae’ is a concoction of ice cream and flavored syrup, usually also with nuts, whipped cream, and a cherry available all over the USA, particularly in ice cream parlors. (I do not know whether sundaes exist elsewhere in the world, it is definitely an American invention.)”
That sounds much preferably to smelly dogs that howl all the time.
Mrs. Coulter 04.06.06 at 10:19 am
Toscanini’s in Cambridge, MA used to have Guinness ice cream on their flavor rotation. I never tried it (I was partial to espresso mixed with sweet cream, which approximates the flavor of a latte), but friends thought it was quite good.
st 04.06.06 at 12:34 pm
I dunno – when I lived in Dublin, I got a bit of a toungelashing when I tried to order one from a bartender in temple bar that I musn’t call it a black and tan, that’s what the bloody brits called it, and if I wanted to drink like a brit I could f**k off on back to britain. If I wanted an affanaff, well, then, that’s a fine Irish drink and a different thing altogether, now.
st 04.06.06 at 12:34 pm
er…tonguelashing
vivian 04.06.06 at 8:54 pm
re 49: Toscanini’s Guinness ice cream was (is) strikingly good! And Ben and Jerry said that Tosci’s was their favorite micro-ice-cream (micro-freeze?) maker. My favorites were Cardamom-ginger, khulfee, and anything with hazelnut. And the hot vanilla, mmm. Yours?
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