We’re close to the three week mark here, so I thought I’d provide an update and ask for some help. Over the past week the authorities have restricted access to the Capitol, and there is no question that this has combined with the cold weather to diminish the size of the protests, though not by much (our 4 year old is sufficiently recalcitrant that not being able to take some warmth in the Capitol means that my wife and I tend to go separately, rather than together). Earlier this week live ammunition was found in the Capitol, providing a pretext for the use of metal detectors. It is a sign of the esteem in which the police are held that I have heard no-one here suggest that the police planted the ammunition – everyone thinks it was a right-winger and that the police will make a good-faith effort to expose who did it. Assembly Democrats with ground floor offices responded by holding office hours outside in the cold — desks were being hauled back and forth through mercifully large windows. The Republicans put out a hilarious estimate of $6.5 million for cleaning up the Capitol (getting the adhesive off the walls) which the press pretty quickly ridiculed and was then reduced to $450,000 — after which skilled members of the relevant trade union offered to volunteer their services to do the cleanup (I imagine we’ll be setting up a fund soon for reseeding the mudbaths which which were once the lawns surrounding the building).
One Republican senator, Dale Schultz, after extensive consultation in his district, has announced that he will vote against the collective bargaining provisions of the budget repair bill, and the polls are consistently looking worse for Walker and the Republicans — and recall efforts are gradually being coordinated reasonably effectively. It takes two more Republicans to flip, and there are rumours that one might be flipping soon (but there are lots of rumours, put about by each side to demoralize the other).
The Wisconsin 14 are still solid. It is clear that there is considerable variation in their commitment – some would be perfectly happy to spend the rest of their lives their if that’s what it would take, whereas others (eg some with young children) are, understandably, really feeling the strain. They have lost their parking spots, are being fined $100 per day for every day they are not in the Capitol while the Senate is in session, have had their paychecks withheld till they pick them up in person, and the Republicans have passed a statute requiring that they all be arrested “with or without force” (a statute that is almost certainly illegal). So here’s the request for help. I’m told this is the most effective page through which to contribute to their campaign coffers, which money they can use to support living expenses etc. [1] (In discussing whether to post this my wife said “you’re not going to help fund-raise for the Democratic Party are you?” so I checked to ensure this would go direct to specific campaign funds — good grief, even I’m breaking my rule of only contributing to the best Democrat in the State now).
Michael Moore below the fold:
[1] If you have reason to think I’m wrong, tell me quick.
{ 54 comments }
Alan White 03.06.11 at 9:35 pm
Superb work Harry (if I may) on keeping the philosophical community apprised on developments in our (used-to-be) fair state. As a fellow UW System prof dismayed by the breathtakingly rapid attempt of Walker’s administration to dismantle unions, de-fund and replace K-12 public education with unregulated private and charter schools, and in general attack the core principles of The Wisconsin Idea, I have frequently taken solice and courage from your posts. Let’s keep up the pressure.
Gene O'Grady 03.06.11 at 10:35 pm
I have some idea of real violence from the time when my father was a judge and there really were violent crimes including murder perpetrated against the judiciary in California. Nothing could be more clearly phony as a provocation for extra security than planting live ammunition — what are you going to do, throw it against the ground and hope it explodes? Clearly the police would be too smart to do something like that.
Andrew 03.06.11 at 10:41 pm
I am also impressed by, and supportive of, the efforts of teachers and others in Wisconsin.
However, it would be a mistake to allow Moore, or anyone else, to broaden the issues beyond collective bargaining rights, and educational quality. Those are the core issues, not whether the distribution of wealth in this country is just, nor whether we should effect a redistribution of that wealth.
For Moore, and for many others, the potential to use the Wisconsin protests to speak to larger issues and motivate action on those larger issues, may be the truly important aspect of events in Wisconsin.
But their hopes are, quite frankly, liberal fantasy. Americans identify with workers’ rights, and Americans want teaching to be an attractive profession. This is the type of issue that can unite workers across political parties. Broaden the argument, and you lose support and you lose momentum. You become bogged down in endless ideological soundbite-cycles about socialism and freedom, and in those swamps progress slows and sinks.
The answer to calls for fiscal responsibility, moreover, should not be to challenge the widely held belief that we are in fiscal trouble; the answer should be to agree with the belief, emphasize that the unions are willing to take cuts to help solve the problem, and note that spending on education is more akin to investment in the future than to wasteful spending. We don’t want to stop investing in America’s future, do we?
Every time the Republicans talk about spending on education, the left’s answer should be framed in terms of prudent but optimistic investment.
I’m not criticizing you for including the link to Moore, incidentally. I just don’t want speeches like that to become the theme of the Wisconsin protests.
Red 03.06.11 at 11:06 pm
Moore’s role, it seems to me, was rather that of a cheerleader, so I wouldn’t worry too much about him taking over. Broadening the issue may or may not happen anyway, depending on new developments in other states or in DC.
Yes, by all means, let’s take the deficit seriously. And then ask why the rich just absolutely couldn’t live without a gigantic tax break–on top of the one they have had for the last ten years. I think Americans do understand this elementary point.
Brett Bellmore 03.06.11 at 11:07 pm
“and the Republicans have passed a statute requiring that they all be arrested “with or without force†(a statute that is almost certainly illegal).”
Except, of course, that it’s authorized by the state constitution.
“but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.”
That is, after all, why they fled to another state: If they stayed in Wisconsin, they knew they’d be subject to arrest.
Constitutional clauses authorizing a minority, (Let alone a majority!) of the legislature to compel attendance by other members, so as to form a quorum, are quite common, to deal with precisely situations where some of the members absent themselves in order to prevent votes they expect to lose.
Steve LaBonne 03.06.11 at 11:09 pm
Sorry, Andrew, I think people need to be made aware of WHY we are in phony, deliberately created fiscal “trouble”. Perhaps starting with you; if indeed you need some education in that area, start with The Shock Doctrine.
Dennis 03.06.11 at 11:14 pm
“….However, it would be a mistake to allow Moore, or anyone else, to broaden the issues beyond collective bargaining rights, and educational quality. Those are the core issues, not whether the distribution of wealth in this country is just, nor whether we should effect a redistribution of that wealth.”
Couldn’t agree more strongly.
Leave the big puppets at home, folks. This is about worker’s rights.
Harry 03.06.11 at 11:37 pm
I agree that Moore is nothing more than a cheerleader, which is fine — Jesse Jackson (not a fan myself) too. Andrew and Dennis – can’t you tell this is about world revolution? (that’s what the nice young man from the world socialist web group told me yesterday).
Brett, I’ve seen a compelling brief, but can’t make it public, obviously.
JJ 03.06.11 at 11:40 pm
The Republican tax cuts and regulatory rollbacks for Wisconsin business and industry created the budget crisis to begin with, a Republican redistribution of wealth to the rich who created the economic crisis which allowed a disaffected electorate to vote for the Republicans who now have created the budget crisis to justify their tax cuts and corporate welfare. If and when the economy rebounds from Democratic stimulation programs of 2009-2010, the Republicans will claim that their tax and spending cuts were responsible for the recovery. Otherwise they’ll blame the Democrats for blocking the cuts they’ll claim would have revived the economy. Either way, the affluent benefit from the misery of the indigent.
hix 03.07.11 at 12:05 am
Now what Andrew, shall it be only about collective bargaining rights, or only about upper midle class teachers special interests? “Broadening the issue” to inequality bad, “broadening the issue” to teachers are great good?
jacob 03.07.11 at 12:56 am
Re the legality of the Senate contempt order, this letter has been circulating on twitter. IANAL, nevermind one familiar with the Wisconsin constitution and relevant statutes, but it seems very convincing. Sorry for the rather inconvenient way it’s presented here–a jpg per page:
page 1 http://yfrog.com/gzexivbj
page 2 http://yfrog.com/h8ye9xnj
page 3 http://yfrog.com/h3fufumj
Also, it appears that other threats against the Wisconsin 14 are nothing but bluster. For instance, the attempt to withhold their pay–at least one Democratic senator, Erpenbach, has gotten his paycheck through a power of attorney he gave to a staffer. I imagine other senators are doing the same thing.
The made-up estimate of damage to the the Capitol was $7.5 million, was, as I understand it, offered under oath in court (making it perjury) and have been downgraded to $350,000 if that.
Finally, and perhaps most relevant for this blog, the signs that had festooned the capitol for the past three weeks have been removed (contrary to promises made Thursday night), supposedly to go to the Wisconsin Historical Society. As any Americanist historian can tell you, WiH is an amazing resource, not only to the state, but to the whole country. Alas, Walker’s budget cuts its budget such as will require 18 layoffs.
Bruce Wilder 03.07.11 at 1:09 am
I don’t really want to take Andrew to task for making the possibly excellent point that narrow agendas make strong majorities, but I wonder whenever someone seems to insist that
1.) the idea that politics is about the distribution of income and power is new and scary;
2.) it is absolutely necessary to agree with “the other side” on their talking points.
Politics has always been about the distribution of income, wealth and power. Acknowledging that reality strengthens democracy, by instructing people about what is at stake. That’s always going to be responsibility of the Left, since the Right has a strong incentive to pretend otherwise. And, if things get bad enough that telling the truth about what is at stake in politics is revolutionary, it’s time for the revolution.
People disagree. Getting people to acknowledge the legitimacy of a point of view, other than their own, is far more important to democracy, then confirming them in their delusions.
Getting a majority to agree with any one thing is a very tough task. It requires that various people arrive at agreement from differing points of view. So, yes, narrowing the immediate agenda is often a necessary tactic. But, making use of a teachable moment to educate on broader themes also has its place.
Myles 03.07.11 at 4:06 am
Frankly, it looks like the Republicans will have to tough this one out. I can’t see any way they can back down now. Scott Walker has found the hill he wants to die on, and nobody is going to be able to stop the man.
Dr.BDH 03.07.11 at 4:56 am
The longer Walker refuses to compromise (strip out the non-budget items), the more painful his death on that hill will be. The tide has already turned against him, as reflected in polls and media coverage. As things stand now, should he succeed in passing his bill, he will doom the Republican party in Wisconsin to long term minority status. His past history suggests that he is not savvy enough to appreciate that he is alienating Wisconsin voters, especially young voters. It appears he thinks he’s Reagan when he’s really Nixon.
Blain 03.07.11 at 6:40 am
Harry (or anyone else who might know), am I correct in thinking that only US citizens and permanent residents (i.e. green card holders) may donate money?
Although I normally work in Milwaukee (I’m away this spring), I do so on an ‘H1B’ visa (barring unforeseen circumstances, I eventually will have a green card, but not for at least another year). Consequently, my understanding is that I cannot contribute financially to any US political party or cause.
I’ve written a letter to Governor Walker (politely explaining my deep opposition to what he is trying to do), but I can’t see what else I can do, given my visa status and current location. (It’s frustrating!)
David Williams 03.07.11 at 8:15 am
We’ve got your back up here in Stevens Point, Harry. I and dozens of friends at UWSP have been actively engaged in opposition to the budget repair bill in multifarious ways: protesting in Madison, protesting in Stevens Point, protesting in nearby communities, calling representative, writing representatives, calling the governor, writing the governor, boycotting corporations supporting Scott Walker, harassing the Club for Growth, distributing coupons around town to local businesses that indicate that much of their money comes from state employees, sending care-packages to our senator in Illinois, etc. This insane bill, if passed, would be the worst thing to happen to our schools and economy in living memory.
Alan Shaw 03.07.11 at 8:39 am
Thanks for the link, through which I’ve donated, and thanks for the blog!
What is the “fold”? Do you imagine that there’s some common browser window size and font size that makes people’s view of the site have a page break at some particular place?
dsquared 03.07.11 at 9:03 am
What is the “fold�
You don’t see it if you come directly via a link to the post, but on the CT front page there is a “Read More” link, where long posts get split up to make the front page entries manageable in length and stop them pushing each other off the front page.
ejh 03.07.11 at 9:12 am
Every time the Republicans talk about spending on education, the left’s answer should be framed in terms of prudent but optimistic investment.
A particular bugbear of mine is people who demand that the response of “the left” should be limited to whatever they particularly support.
mir 03.07.11 at 9:45 am
Hi, I’m a reader/lurker in Canada. As exciting as the events in Egypt have been, I find what is happening in Wisconsin almost more relevant? interesting? Amazing. Because it is the States, it is the middle class, it is public discussion about labour and money and… Well, the posts and commenters have covered the issues much better than my vague floundering. Anyway, as someone who despairs on a regular basis that people will ever rally in an effective way around an issue of (social) justice on a continent where economic comforts and entertainment/media distractions tend to obscure the need to do so, I am so thrilled by what is happening. Naive or not, I’m kind of of the opinion that this *is* about world revolution. In the best possible way. Thanks for your posts and updates, and be of stout heart and good cheer.
Red 03.07.11 at 12:20 pm
Ah, what would we do without Canada(@20). Nice to know there are some sane people on this continent.
Kristen 03.07.11 at 12:27 pm
Thanks Harry. I’ve been looking for a place to donate to the Fab 14. I found lots of websites, but wasn’t sure which were legit.
Keep spreading the word. I live in Madison and am still finding people who don’t truly comprehend the true consequences of this budget. There are still those who think that this is all about making people with cushy state desk jobs pay a tiny bit more of their health insurance. (yes, even in lefty Mad-town!)
Andrew 03.07.11 at 1:18 pm
Steven @6: I’m in favor of education (and I appreciate you taking a moment to further my own), and I think that the issue you and Moore raise is an interesting issue. But it’s a very poor issue on which to win this kind of political battle. It’s not the most favorable ground for the fight.
Harry @8: I understand; I’m just wary of anything which gives the opposition opportunities to frame this more favorably for them. Moore on a stage at the event gives the opposition a bigger opportunity than SocialistAdmin@workersoftheworldunite.org.
Bruce @12: I think we largely agree. Yes, perhaps Lasswell was right that politics is only about who gets what, when, and how. All the more reason to focus on framing issues in the most favorable manner possible, and to focus on winning the substantive political issues. Voter education is great, unless the effort to do so enables your opponents to defeat you, in which case we console ourselves with the thought that we raised awareness while watching another party getting all wrong the who, the what, the when and the how. On all this, I think, we agree.
On teachable moments… education (in a broad sense) certainly has an important role in democracy, but within the context of a political fight any educational services should be provided to the end of winning the fight. When Moore appears at the protest, and is given a stage to speak, he then speaks within the context of the political fight, not externally to it, and he should tailor his remarks appropriately. And, if he believes that he better serves broader issues by making use of Wisconsin as a teachable moment, then he should remain outside the fight and continue to speak about broader issues (which is perfectly legitimate of course).
ejh @19: It’s all just imho, and I have no problem with differing humble opinions. I raise “investment” because one of MY bugbears is the extent to which the left – to be blunt – frequently sucks at the political vocabulary game, which is part of the reason that they so frequently lose the issue-framing game. In Wisconsin, by contrast, they dominated the field in all dimensions: they used the right images – wholesome, hard-working teachers, firefighters, police, families – they paid attention to details that should be trivial but aren’t – like keeping things clean – and they kept their eyes on the ball – workers’ rights – without being drawn into arguments where the GOP tends to have stronger rhetoric.
If there were MBA programs for political operatives, Wisconsin would be a universally studied case. Bring that discipline and operational clarity to other fights, and we can really help this country achieve its better future.
Andrew 03.07.11 at 1:24 pm
[Something seems to have wreaked havoc on my previous comment. Could someone simply delete 22, and let this comment stand in its place? Sorry.]
Steven @6: I’m in favor of education (and I appreciate you taking a moment to further my own), and I think that the issue you and Moore raise is an interesting issue. But it’s a very poor issue on which to win this kind of political battle. It’s not the most favorable ground for the fight.
Harry @8: I understand I’m just wary of anything which gives the opposition opportunities to frame this more favorably for them. Moore on a stage at the event gives the opposition a bigger opportunity than the comments of a guy running a workersoftheworldunite website.
Bruce @12: I think we largely agree. Yes, perhaps Lasswell was right that politics is only about who gets what, when, and how. All the more reason to focus on framing issues in the most favorable manner possible, and to focus on winning the substantive political issues. Voter education is great, unless the effort to do so enables your opponents to defeat you, in which case we console ourselves with the thought that we raised awareness while watching another party getting all wrong the who, the what, the when and the how. On all this, I think, we agree.
On teachable moments… education (in a broad sense) certainly has an important role in democracy, but within the context of a political fight any educational services should be provided to the end of winning the fight. When Moore appears at the protest, and is given a stage to speak, he then speaks within the context of the political fight, not externally to it, and he should tailor his remarks appropriately. And, if he believes that he better serves broader issues by making use of Wisconsin as a teachable moment, then he should remain outside the fight and continue to speak about broader issues (which is perfectly legitimate of course).
ejh @19: It’s all just imho, and I have no problem with differing humble opinions. I raise “investment†because one of MY bugbears is the extent to which the left – to be blunt – frequently sucks at the political vocabulary game, which is part of the reason that they so frequently lose the issue-framing game. In Wisconsin, by contrast, they dominated the field in all dimensions: they used the right images – wholesome, hard-working teachers, firefighters, police, families – they paid attention to details that should be trivial but aren’t – like keeping things clean – and they kept their eyes on the ball – workers’ rights – without being drawn into arguments where the GOP tends to have stronger rhetoric.
If there were MBA programs for political operatives, Wisconsin would be a universally studied case. Bring that discipline and operational clarity to other fights, and we can really help this country achieve its better future.
/end caffeinated post.
Steve LaBonne 03.07.11 at 1:46 pm
Andrew, in reply I will simply co-sign ejh’s comment @19. Also my name is Steve, short for Stephen (not Steven). Unwarranted assumptions seem to be your stock in trade.
chris 03.07.11 at 2:55 pm
Frankly, it looks like the Republicans will have to tough this one out. I can’t see any way they can back down now. Scott Walker has found the hill he wants to die on, and nobody is going to be able to stop the man.
“The Republicans” aren’t monolithic, though. Not all of them want to go down in flames with Walker. Schultz is already looking to broker a compromise and if enough other Republicans sign on, they can convince the Democrats to return and pass a bipartisan compromise bill — sticking Walker with the choice of vetoing it, and maintaining the expensive status quo, or accepting it and letting the unions live. If a moderate bill passes, whether it is vetoed or not, Walker’s bill is toast — nobody will put it forward again after it’s clear that the people hate it and the legislature prefers a different approach.
Adrian 03.07.11 at 3:32 pm
Well it is a pretty melodramatic speech.
I wouldn’t say it was a fair and accurate account of what happened. I would say it was a dramatized account designed to produce the sort of emotionally based topical set of new “truths” for the down trodden to take up.
I would say Michael is taking advantage of a crisis for a good bit of propaganda. But I don’t disagree with his message so I can’t complain to much. It is not like the speech was particularly lower than the national level of political discourse.
Satan Mayo 03.07.11 at 5:02 pm
You might even say Michael’s speech was much higher than the national level of political discourse, since at least it’s based on facts.
Andrew 03.08.11 at 12:35 am
Steven @19: Well played good sir!
Satan: Comparing the 400 wealthiest people in America to “little Mubaraks”? Comparing Wall St. to terrorists? The speech is almost as factually based as “The Night Before Christmas.” Unfortunately, it doesn’t rhyme.
Harry 03.08.11 at 3:00 am
I cringed at the little Mubaraks (Warren Buffett? sure, in a better world we might think of him like that, but we’re not in that one), and considered suppressing the video on those grounds, but it seemed dishonest. The comment about Wall Street and terrorists, in context, was nowhere near as bad. “Terrorist” is such a degraded term now, that I don’t much care how it gets used. But I agree with the central point, Andrew, and one of the brilliant things is that the “Hitler”, “Mubarak” etc signs have diminished over the course of the protests, in response to complaints (including my daughter’s day 2 imperious facebook message which her several thousand friends loved).
Walker is an interesting character, I think. He seems passionless, which is strange given his actions. I’m inclined to agree that the long term effects on the Rep party in Wisconsin are pretty bad (unless something very odd happens he’s probably handed the state to Obama in 2012 eg) and the effects on the Dems pretty good. And once he loses his majority in either house he’ll be unable to do a thing, even if he’s not replaced in a recall. I gather that Feingold’s people are stepping in to coordinate recalls, so maybe he’ll step in himself at some point. Lets hope.
Blain 03.08.11 at 4:33 am
“I gather that Feingold’s people are stepping in to coordinate recalls, so maybe he’ll step in himself at some point. Lets hope.”
That would be brilliant!
Hook 03.08.11 at 5:15 am
I always wonder what to think about Michael Moore’s kind of rhetoric. He puts things in a tiresome, discredited lefty raging way. And then I find myself thinking about this speech that everything he’s saying is roughly true. And essentially the problem that we’re facing. And we know it. I am one of those middle class people who has felt the squeeze, etc.
So I’d never wish that someone like Michael Moore doesn’t show up here because he’s saying something that needs to be said. But is there a way to say it that doesn’t shut off the brains of everyone who doesn’t already agree with him?
Brett Bellmore 03.08.11 at 12:17 pm
Just a note: You all ARE aware that there are Democrats who are going to be up for recall, too, right?
Steve LaBonne 03.08.11 at 1:23 pm
Good luck with that, ace. The only Democrats who survived that election were the ones in safe districts. Several of the Republicans? Not so safe.
Harry 03.08.11 at 2:03 pm
Oh yes, Brett, that might serve to deplete their funds a bit if the Reps get enough signatures (and no doubt mssrs Koch will supply plenty of money to pay for “volunteers” to gather signatures), but none of them are in danger after this. They know that – and so do the Republicans who are only doing it to try and create the impression (apparently successfully with you but, really, not with anyone here) that they have some chance of counter-counter-attacking.
Margaret 03.08.11 at 3:22 pm
Koch still may encounter difficulties in rounding up “volunteers.” My understanding is that anyone who collects signatures has to be a Wisconsin resident, although, unlike the people who actually sign the recall petitions, they don’t have to be eligible voters in the district. So unlike the Joe-the Plumber rallies, they can’t just be bussed in from away.
fred lapides 03.08.11 at 6:23 pm
said it before. say it again: the word ought to go out on FaceBook, Twitter, blogs, etc etc
I PLEDGE NOT TO SPEND ANY MONEY NOR VACATION IN ANY STATE THAT ALTERS IN ANY WAY THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ALREADY IN PLACE .
SIGN AND SEND ON AND GET COPIES TO PRESS IN WISCONSIN AND TO REPUBLICANS RUNNING THE ANTI-COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ATTEMPT.
Lemuel Pitkin 03.08.11 at 6:42 pm
I’d never wish that someone like Michael Moore doesn’t show up here because he’s saying something that needs to be said. But is there a way to say it that doesn’t shut off the brains of everyone who doesn’t already agree with him?
You often hear people say stuff like this. And it’s very strange. Because Moore reaches much broader audience than *anyone* else on the left. Certainly much broader than the sort of people who make the criticism. Did you ever see his old TV shows? They were funny, really funny. And they were on network tv. I’ve observed teenage boys picking up his books from the front table of Barnes & Noble, and talking about how great he is. Do you see that with anyone more respectable? Farenheit 9/11 is the 2nd-highest grossing documentary of all time. Bowling for Columbine and Sicko are both in the top 20. And it wasn’t committed leftists buying those tickets — there aren’t enough of us, not nearly.
If this is “tiresome, discredited lefty raging,” all I can say is, we need a lot more of it.
chris 03.08.11 at 6:49 pm
But is there a way to say it that doesn’t shut off the brains of everyone who doesn’t already agree with him?
No, because the people whose brains are shut off by Moore object to the content, not the form.
If someone already believes that the substantive content of your agenda is a socialist plot to destroy America, then you can admit that you’re out to destroy America, and be considered an enemy of America, or you can insist that you’re really trying to do what is best for America, and be considered a *sneaky and dishonest* enemy of America.
This kind of behavior is what leads to highfalutin labels like “epistemic closure”.
stras 03.08.11 at 8:03 pm
“I always wonder what to think about Michael Moore’s kind of rhetoric. He puts things in a tiresome, discredited lefty raging way.”
Which is to say: he talks about class and class struggle, and doesn’t pretend that the world we live in – a world in which a handful of billionaire kleptocrats control the majority of the world’s wealth through a combination of theft, bribery and state violence – is the world we should or need to live in.
I continue to be amazed at the utter contempt with which Moore – and the Left in general – is regarded by (invariably comfortable, middle-class) liberals. Oh yes, we agree with what he’s saying and all, but why must that awful man be so gauche about it?
Andrew 03.09.11 at 1:13 am
Harry, I’m glad to hear that those signs rapidly fell out of favor. Re terrorism in Moore’s speech: yes it may be an overused term, and I agree that it’s not as offensive here as “little Mubaraks” might be. It still lends a shrill, ridiculous tone to the speech, wrapping the kernel of a credible argument in layers of cartoonish rhetoric.
Regarding Moore generally… it’s not that he’s gauche; it’s that he’s frequently wrong in distractingly outrageous ways. To get to any truths or good arguments in his speech I have to consciously ignore the several bad arguments and descriptions that clamor loudly for attention – and that seems to be SOP for him. The moralism expressed feels somehow too cheaply obtained, too easily dismissive of any facts or understandings that might require of him the occasional qualification.
But, obviously, that’s all imho. Some really like and enjoy him and his work, and I can also understand why they might.
Bernard Yomtov 03.09.11 at 1:14 am
Thanks for the link.
Salient 03.09.11 at 2:29 am
Um, Brett, “a smaller number … may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide” does not mean what you are pretending to think it means. There’s a difference between Senate rules (which is what IV.7 governs, organization of legislature) and laws (which cannot be passed unilaterally by one body of the legislature; because IV.7 describes a process enacted unilaterally by one body of the legislature, it follows logically that the resulting rules are not laws). The Senate is authorized to make Senate rules which compel the attendance of other Senators, and the executive is authorized to enforce those rules. In fact, IV.15 states:
Members of the legislature shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest; nor shall they be subject to any civil process, during the session of the legislature, nor for fifteen days next before the commencement and after the termination of each session.
Granted, the resolution order issued to the Sergeant-at-Arms might be legal and constitutional, because it’s stupidly vacuous; it includes a “by warrant or other legal process” weasel phrase. It’s a bit like me saying “with or without force, by purchase or other legal process, I will get some ice cream.”
Brett Bellmore 03.09.11 at 11:31 pm
Salient, your position essentially boils down to, if I’m reading you right, that the legislature “may compel the attendance of absent members”, except that it may not.
The normal historical reading of these two, quite common constitutional provisions, is that members of legislatures are immune from any action the executive or judicial branch might undertake to prevent their attendance, but that the legislature itself my deputize those branches to compel attendance.
Which, I repeat, is why the legislators fled to another state. They understood quite well that they’d be subject to arrest if they stayed in Wisconsin.
joe koss 03.10.11 at 1:51 am
MADISON – Sen. Minority Leader Mark Miller released this statement: “In thirty minutes, 18 State Senators undid fifty years of civil rights in Wisconsin. Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten. Tonight, 18 Senate Republicans conspired to take government away from the people. Tomorrow, we will join the people of Wisconsin in taking back their government.”
Will we see large scale strikes tomorrow?
Relevant links here, here and here
christian_h 03.10.11 at 1:59 am
Well this is it – the state workers will have to walk out and stay out until Walker and his gang beg them to accept full repeal of the law. A couple months without schools, universities, trash pick-up, street cleaning, cops or fire fighters should do it.
Of course, I’m probably describing a fantasy. The unions have relied on getting Democrats elected and lobbying for so long they are likely no longer sufficiently organized in the work places to strike. So they are going to put whatever resources they still have into recalling legislators, squandering any momentum for a general strike there may be. Maybe they’ll recall some Senators, but come next year when they can finally attempt to recall the Governor, it will be too late. I hope I’m wrong and overly pessimistic!
Russell Arben Fox 03.10.11 at 2:00 am
Would strikes be the best way for labor to respond to this (possibly illegal, depending on how chooses to interpret the Wisconsin state constitution) provocation? What’s the best strategy for keeping popular sentiment on the side of those who understand the importance of collective bargaining for public employee unions, and what its loss potentially means for all the unions in the state? Maybe strikes, but maybe not. I hope a quarter million people show up to trap Governor Walker in his office, though. And I hope the fleeing Democrats come home like honored heroes in a losing (but perhaps not entirely lost) battle.
Brett Bellmore 03.10.11 at 2:07 am
No, pretty clearly legal: They lacked a quorum to pass a fiscal bill, they had a quorum all along to pass a non-fiscal bill, and that’s what they did.
Refusing to show up for a legislative session is a risky tactic when the other side already has a majority, and a quorum for most matters, and this demonstrates why. As they say, showing up is half the battle…
Blain 03.10.11 at 2:09 am
It is now obvious (as if it wasn’t before) that the union-busting part of the ‘budget repair bill’ has *nothing* to do with Wisconsin’s fiscal situation — and thus Walker was lying all along (not that anyone sensible thought otherwise, especially since the ‘Koch’ call).
The only alternative is that the union-busting part of the ‘budget repair bill’ *is* a fiscal matter, in which case the bill just passed by the WI Senate is unconstitutional.
The GOP is gored on either horn of this dilemma.
christian_h 03.10.11 at 2:09 am
Strikes can work now (meaning within a time frame where repeal of the law still can make a difference). It’s as simple as that. If this law stands for the next three years, it won’t matter any more if the Republicans are punished for it at the ballot box – by that point, there won’t be public employee unions to speak of left in Wisconsin. This is a real and crucial issue, viewing it as just a political opportunity for the Democratic party is cynical and pointless.
Henry 03.10.11 at 2:10 am
bq. No, pretty clearly legal: They lacked a quorum to pass a fiscal bill, they had a quorum all along to pass a non-fiscal bill, and that’s what they did.
That depends. Barry Pump at UW suggests that there’s a problem with the conference committee.
joe koss 03.10.11 at 2:43 am
WEAC is urging teachers to report tomorrow.
Various reports on when the Wisconsin 14 will return, with some saying after the Assembly takes a vote on the new bill at 11 am, others saying Miller just put out a statement that they will not return tomorrow.
Margaret 03.10.11 at 2:44 am
In fact what the WI Senate did was not legal, as Peter Barca was insisting during the process. Wisconsin has Open Meetings Laws, and the session that stripped out and voted on the union measures should have had a public announcement 24 hours in advance. But what will happen next is beyond me. I’m hearing that students are calling for a walk-out.
Russell Arben Fox 03.10.11 at 3:01 am
Besides the Open Meeting Laws and the committee rules, there’s also the GOP’s claim that, in re-writing the bill, they made it non-fiscal, and hence capable of being passed with the Democrats in attendance. Depending on how they play the legal game (and if they choose to play the legal game, as opposed to some other response), Democrats and union leaders could use Walker’s own words, about the vital fiscal importance of stripping public employee unions of collective bargaining rights, as a way to advance the argument that the GOP’s claim is false–that the re-written bill, though it involved no budgetary matters, was still in essence a fiscal bill, and hence should have been able to move forward. Might be worth a shot, anyway. I think I still like the idea of strikes better, though.
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